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Community meeting: Farragut High School zoning
Submitted by R. Neal on Tue, 2007/02/13 - 8:37am.
From an e-mail announcement...
Farragut High School Zoning
COMMUNITY MEETING
TUESDAY FEB 13th at 7PM
First Farragut
United Methodist Church
12733 Kingston Pike
across from the Renaissance Center
The decision for the new high school zones has not been made. Get Involved.
We as a community group -- not the school board or the county government -- plan to hold a community workshop for families, students and community members who reside in the current FHS zone.
The purpose of the meeting will be to develop ideas to solve the problem.
Small group discussion on alternate ideas
We want people who are SOLUTION BASED -- people who love the Greater Farragut Community and want to preserve it.
This is our community so we should not wait for others to come up with a plan. We need to help create the plan.
Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Tue, 2007/02/13 - 9:12am.
From memo: "The purpose of the meeting will be to develop ideas to solve the problem."
To the extent that I've been able to understand the news coverage, I'm skeptical of what Farragut believes this "problem" to be. Isn't it the case that they clamored for a new high school, then since that project began, they've turned their attention to a search for measures that that will leave their zone intact? Hasn't their focus changed from one intent on reducing overcrowding to one of maintaining a high level of AP courses in their kids' curricula?
Recently, I haven't understood what it is these folks actually want. Karen C, can you explain? Anybody?
We want people who are SOLUTION BASED -- people who love the Greater Farragut Community and want to preserve it.
You know, it would be nice if we had folks who loved KNOX COUNTY and wanted to preserve and enhance the educational experience for all its children.
Quite frankly, I'm disgusted by the folks in west Knoxville who created the need for a new school by moving to an area where there wasn't enough capactity, demanded that new school, got it, and now are squabbling over whose kids "have" to go there.
They're taking everyone's tax dollars to build new facilities, leaving little $$ to maintain the existing infrastructure. They should either say "thank you," or cancel the damn school and send the $$ back to the center city. We can use it.
Well said Gemini. There is a great disconnect between those folks living in say far East Knox County and Farragut in my opinion. I live in Powell, and even though I don't think we get short shrift(comparatively speaking) I chafe everytime this topic comes on the news.
They chose to live there, which is fine of course, but their handwringing seems hollow and self-serving to me.
Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Tue, 2007/02/13 - 7:18pm.
...just caught your mention that we're neighbors in Powell. Do you have any kids in our schools?
In all honesty, I'm afraid we need to get in line with a lot of other Knox County elementary schools waiting for facilities improvements. I mentioned on another thread yesterday--maybe causing some contention with my south Knoxville bubs--that I think "all (elementary school) boats would rise" if we would just work toward operating fewer elementary schools of more moderate size. If we wait for every school board member to agree with Lindsey on that one, though, we'll wait a good long while for improvements at Powell Elementary!
Our community's middle school, though, has been the top middle school priority in Knox County for years. Not only have we had those 300+ students in trailers for decades, we've also been the *only* middle school in the system not teaching any lab sciences (for lack of a lab). Even Ragsdale has been outspoken about it over the last couple of years. Of course, Powell Middle is finally receiving improvements starting this summer.
Our community's high school is also an *only,* with regard to its being the *only* high school in the system lacking a vocational center. For over 35 years (since my day there), these students have lost 1 hour of instructional time out of 6, every day, to commute to Byington-Solway. Powell High also has more "floating teachers" per student than any high school in the system, including Farragut, which is a situation impacting on the methods or devices these hobo-teachers can use in their instruction. Powell High's issues may be a lost cause in the immediate future, though, since a growing number of board members is rejecting the notion of so-called "comprehensive" high schools, those including vo-tech centers, in favor of "thematic" ones. Why their insistance that families will want to send kids to schools outside their communities, I don't know. I predict it will be about as popular a notion as bussing!
Anyway, nice to meet you here. Wish more from our area would join the conversation.
Hello Tamara. I've only been in Powell for about five years and will have a child in elementary within two. I honestly was not quite aware of the deficiencies you mention. Certainly that must improve. My primary source of information was some other parents-anecdotal.
Submitted by CathyMcCaughan on Tue, 2007/02/13 - 9:16am.
Instead of having a meeting for all the parents who don't want their children going to school with children from Karns, why don't they just have sign-ups for anyone willing to attend the new school? There would be a big, empty room.
Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Tue, 2007/02/13 - 4:47pm.
Bizgirl: "What's wrong with the "families, students and community members" getting involved? Better now than when it is all done."
Oh, it's not that. It's been my impression (and apparently it's been Cathy's impression, 2nd post above)from N-S coverage that Farragut High families are now getting "cold feet" about leaving their old digs.
It's ironic, since the wheel tax vote that supplied funding for their new school was so contentious and since a wrenching construction process (i.e., impact of building supply price increases) is nearly complete.
The N-S coverage about parents' fears that kids at the new school would have fewer choices among Advanced Placement courses was kinda unsympathetic, since Farragut High, it pointed out, had twice as many course offerings as any other KC high school.
Also, I *think* Farragut High operates a private foundation to benefit just its own high school (I know the Farragut primary/intermediate schools do), so I was wondering whether splitting private funds of this sort is possibly becoming an issue among parents who contributed?
So, could be that the meeting notice Randy shares is just an effort to gently remind affected parents that *someone* is going to have to accept rezoning, if overcrowding is to be relieved. Or, could be that the meeting is a planning session for how it is this one-group-about-to-become-two might demand that same broad curriculum available at Farragut High, but not available in other KC high schools. Or, could be that squabbling has arisen about whether parents contributing to the foundation I *think* exists will see that $ follow their kids to a new school.
Quite frankly, I'm disgusted by the folks in west Knoxville who created the need for a new school by moving to an area where there wasn't enough capactity, demanded that new school, got it, and now are squabbling over whose kids "have" to go there.
I'm with you. When I read about the parents crying over how hard it would be for their children to adjust to a new school and make new friends I was truly annoyed.
I'm a military brat & I went to a new school almost every 2 years. Yes, it had it's down side but I wouldn't trade the experiences for anything. These kids aren't even leaving the county for cryin' out loud - suck it up and move along.
Submitted by fixedpig on Tue, 2007/02/13 - 8:33pm.
I can understand if parents are concerned that the new school won't have the same opportunities as FHS - my parents moved to Farragut specifically for the school system. But, it needs to stop being a blocking point for enrollment, as the new school should have better facilities and lower student to teacher ratios. Instead of trying to keep their kids in an overcrowded school, they should demand that the new one have better programs. I'm sure that if they spent this much time on household study habits and pushing a better curriculum, the new high school will have a much better crop of graduates than if those students went to FHS.
As far as "taking all the tax money", Farragut waited throughout the 1990s for some form of overcrowding relief. If I recall correctly, both Austin-East and Fulton were converted into magnet schools with brand-new facilities, while Farragut had to deal with multiple roof leaks and other structural issues. A new school has been long overdue and shouldn't be seen as an unnecessary pet project for the "rich folks out West".
I didn't say they were taking "all" the tax money. I said they were taking tax $$ that lots of other schools could use and then whining about it.
They're taking everyone's tax dollars to build new facilities, leaving little $$ to maintain the existing infrastructure. They should either say "thank you," or cancel the damn school and send the $$ back to the center city. We can use it.
By "everyone" I didn't mean "all the money." I meant we're all paying for the new school.
Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Wed, 2007/02/14 - 5:29pm.
This happens a lot, I've learned. Just in my own community of Powell:
One of Powell Middle's principals, Janice Brown, is married to the principal at Holston Middle. Another Powell Middle teacher, Mrs. Kemp, is wife to the Vine Middle principal. A Powell Elementary teacher, Candy Parker, is wife to Adrian Burnett principal Adam Parker. Another Powell Elementary teacher, Jill Cooper, is sister to Dogwood Elementary principal, Lana Lowe. A Karns Middle teacher, Jane Buckner, is sister to former Powell High principal, Eddie McLemore, and Eddie's deceased wife, Carole McLemore, taught at Powell Elementary until her death.
I am also aware of Powell-area teachers whose spouses teach or are principals in surrounding school systems.
Where marital relationships are concerned, it may be, then, that these "teaching personalities" are just drawn to one another? In the other instances, maybe families spawn "teaching siblings" as the result of a shared family ethic in support of education?
Personally, I don't make too much of it, especially since, in the instances I know about, these family members are working in different schools or even school systems.
And, of course, it's not like the school system is even able to hire unqualified people--a great deal of specific training is required to become a teacher or a principal, either one.
All school system personnel records are open to the public, I believe.
Submitted by CathyMcCaughan on Wed, 2007/02/14 - 6:02pm.
I don't think Knox County did anything wrong with their hiring choices. I think they are trying to send a message that both schools are equally important and worthwhile.
Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Wed, 2007/02/14 - 6:28pm.
I would think so, too, Cathy. And it may also be that they want to send a message that both schools will operate comparably (i.e., intensively academic).
I spoke with Diane Jablonski, former school board member and Farragut resident, since I shared my vague questions about Farragut High having a private foundation to benefit their school. She says yes, they do, but she couldn't venture to guess how the foundation might address the loss of any sizable contributor base rezoned to another school.
Our comrade, fixedpig, made an interesting comment in that regard earlier (don't mean to talk like you're not listening, fixedpig--I just don't know if you are). He said that his parents "moved to Farragut specifically for the school system." Of course, Farragut doesn't *have* a "school system," Knox County does.
Given Farragut's ability to circumvent so many of the Knox County school system's budget woes, though, I can see how residents might imagine they operate their own, independent "school system." It is symptomatic of the "disconnect" ennui mentions, I think.
(Bearden High and, I believe, West High also operate private foundations among KC's twelve high schools.)
Submitted by Knox Insider 007 on Wed, 2007/02/14 - 6:57pm.
Nepotism policy that is passed, will apply to KCS. It will not take all the ones currently in there today. But it will curtail any future ones.
What you will find is that many of them are second and third marriages that resulted because of work place romance and then the individuals were moved to seperate schools.
Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Wed, 2007/02/14 - 9:10pm.
Hmmm. You raise a couple of questions, 007 (and we're starting to digress from our topic).
First, since the Ethics Policy adopted last month relies in its entirety on state law (and the text cites specific statues), I had imagined that any amendments KC might add would be added only in response to *new* state law.
Of course, it may be, since we're a home rule county, that KC could enact a policy on this or any topic that is more restrictive than state law, but I wouldn't imagine the law department would encourage the committee to go too overboard. After all, Owings et al could lose a lot of time on the front end researching how proposed policies could backfire on KC to create lawsuits--or worse, Owings could ultimately need to defend KC against those lawsuits.
Second, I would not expect to find any nepotism policy in either the existing Ethics Policy or an amended version that strictly forbade the hiring/appointing/electing of family members. I would only expect that a policy provided some guidelines for qualifying applicants.
If a policy strictly forbade family members, I would think that, sooner or later, a situation would arise in which the county entity hiring might be forced to hire some less-qualified applicant, rather than the family member applying. It seems that a scenario like that would create a high probablity of a lawsuit from the family member, affording him a claim of a discriminatory county hiring policy.
I welcome the new Ethics Policy, but the N-S has already carried a number of stories on the undue concerns of some public officials fearful of breaching it. As we learn more of the policy's particulars, I expect we'll find the guidelines are tempered with rationality.
From memo: "The purpose of the meeting will be to develop ideas to solve the problem."
To the extent that I've been able to understand the news coverage, I'm skeptical of what Farragut believes this "problem" to be. Isn't it the case that they clamored for a new high school, then since that project began, they've turned their attention to a search for measures that that will leave their zone intact? Hasn't their focus changed from one intent on reducing overcrowding to one of maintaining a high level of AP courses in their kids' curricula?
Recently, I haven't understood what it is these folks actually want. Karen C, can you explain? Anybody?
We want people who are SOLUTION BASED -- people who love the Greater Farragut Community and want to preserve it.
You know, it would be nice if we had folks who loved KNOX COUNTY and wanted to preserve and enhance the educational experience for all its children.
Quite frankly, I'm disgusted by the folks in west Knoxville who created the need for a new school by moving to an area where there wasn't enough capactity, demanded that new school, got it, and now are squabbling over whose kids "have" to go there.
They're taking everyone's tax dollars to build new facilities, leaving little $$ to maintain the existing infrastructure. They should either say "thank you," or cancel the damn school and send the $$ back to the center city. We can use it.
Well said Gemini. There is a great disconnect between those folks living in say far East Knox County and Farragut in my opinion. I live in Powell, and even though I don't think we get short shrift(comparatively speaking) I chafe everytime this topic comes on the news.
They chose to live there, which is fine of course, but their handwringing seems hollow and self-serving to me.
...just caught your mention that we're neighbors in Powell. Do you have any kids in our schools?
In all honesty, I'm afraid we need to get in line with a lot of other Knox County elementary schools waiting for facilities improvements. I mentioned on another thread yesterday--maybe causing some contention with my south Knoxville bubs--that I think "all (elementary school) boats would rise" if we would just work toward operating fewer elementary schools of more moderate size. If we wait for every school board member to agree with Lindsey on that one, though, we'll wait a good long while for improvements at Powell Elementary!
Our community's middle school, though, has been the top middle school priority in Knox County for years. Not only have we had those 300+ students in trailers for decades, we've also been the *only* middle school in the system not teaching any lab sciences (for lack of a lab). Even Ragsdale has been outspoken about it over the last couple of years. Of course, Powell Middle is finally receiving improvements starting this summer.
Our community's high school is also an *only,* with regard to its being the *only* high school in the system lacking a vocational center. For over 35 years (since my day there), these students have lost 1 hour of instructional time out of 6, every day, to commute to Byington-Solway. Powell High also has more "floating teachers" per student than any high school in the system, including Farragut, which is a situation impacting on the methods or devices these hobo-teachers can use in their instruction. Powell High's issues may be a lost cause in the immediate future, though, since a growing number of board members is rejecting the notion of so-called "comprehensive" high schools, those including vo-tech centers, in favor of "thematic" ones. Why their insistance that families will want to send kids to schools outside their communities, I don't know. I predict it will be about as popular a notion as bussing!
Anyway, nice to meet you here. Wish more from our area would join the conversation.
Hello Tamara. I've only been in Powell for about five years and will have a child in elementary within two. I honestly was not quite aware of the deficiencies you mention. Certainly that must improve. My primary source of information was some other parents-anecdotal.
Instead of having a meeting for all the parents who don't want their children going to school with children from Karns, why don't they just have sign-ups for anyone willing to attend the new school? There would be a big, empty room.
I would think the "problem" is "Farragut High School Zoning" and the changes to come.
What's wrong with the "families, students and community members" getting involved? Better now than when it is all done.
Bizgirl: "What's wrong with the "families, students and community members" getting involved? Better now than when it is all done."
Oh, it's not that. It's been my impression (and apparently it's been Cathy's impression, 2nd post above)from N-S coverage that Farragut High families are now getting "cold feet" about leaving their old digs.
It's ironic, since the wheel tax vote that supplied funding for their new school was so contentious and since a wrenching construction process (i.e., impact of building supply price increases) is nearly complete.
The N-S coverage about parents' fears that kids at the new school would have fewer choices among Advanced Placement courses was kinda unsympathetic, since Farragut High, it pointed out, had twice as many course offerings as any other KC high school.
Also, I *think* Farragut High operates a private foundation to benefit just its own high school (I know the Farragut primary/intermediate schools do), so I was wondering whether splitting private funds of this sort is possibly becoming an issue among parents who contributed?
So, could be that the meeting notice Randy shares is just an effort to gently remind affected parents that *someone* is going to have to accept rezoning, if overcrowding is to be relieved. Or, could be that the meeting is a planning session for how it is this one-group-about-to-become-two might demand that same broad curriculum available at Farragut High, but not available in other KC high schools. Or, could be that squabbling has arisen about whether parents contributing to the foundation I *think* exists will see that $ follow their kids to a new school.
I just can't tell...
Quite frankly, I'm disgusted by the folks in west Knoxville who created the need for a new school by moving to an area where there wasn't enough capactity, demanded that new school, got it, and now are squabbling over whose kids "have" to go there.
I'm with you. When I read about the parents crying over how hard it would be for their children to adjust to a new school and make new friends I was truly annoyed.
I'm a military brat & I went to a new school almost every 2 years. Yes, it had it's down side but I wouldn't trade the experiences for anything. These kids aren't even leaving the county for cryin' out loud - suck it up and move along.
I can understand if parents are concerned that the new school won't have the same opportunities as FHS - my parents moved to Farragut specifically for the school system. But, it needs to stop being a blocking point for enrollment, as the new school should have better facilities and lower student to teacher ratios. Instead of trying to keep their kids in an overcrowded school, they should demand that the new one have better programs. I'm sure that if they spent this much time on household study habits and pushing a better curriculum, the new high school will have a much better crop of graduates than if those students went to FHS.
As far as "taking all the tax money", Farragut waited throughout the 1990s for some form of overcrowding relief. If I recall correctly, both Austin-East and Fulton were converted into magnet schools with brand-new facilities, while Farragut had to deal with multiple roof leaks and other structural issues. A new school has been long overdue and shouldn't be seen as an unnecessary pet project for the "rich folks out West".
FHS, Class of 1999
I didn't say they were taking "all" the tax money. I said they were taking tax $$ that lots of other schools could use and then whining about it.
They're taking everyone's tax dollars to build new facilities, leaving little $$ to maintain the existing infrastructure. They should either say "thank you," or cancel the damn school and send the $$ back to the center city. We can use it.
By "everyone" I didn't mean "all the money." I meant we're all paying for the new school.
It can't be a coincidence that the principal of Farragut High is married to the principal of Hardin Valley High.
be looked into by the Ethics Commission, can you say Nepotism.
This happens a lot, I've learned. Just in my own community of Powell:
One of Powell Middle's principals, Janice Brown, is married to the principal at Holston Middle. Another Powell Middle teacher, Mrs. Kemp, is wife to the Vine Middle principal. A Powell Elementary teacher, Candy Parker, is wife to Adrian Burnett principal Adam Parker. Another Powell Elementary teacher, Jill Cooper, is sister to Dogwood Elementary principal, Lana Lowe. A Karns Middle teacher, Jane Buckner, is sister to former Powell High principal, Eddie McLemore, and Eddie's deceased wife, Carole McLemore, taught at Powell Elementary until her death.
I am also aware of Powell-area teachers whose spouses teach or are principals in surrounding school systems.
Where marital relationships are concerned, it may be, then, that these "teaching personalities" are just drawn to one another? In the other instances, maybe families spawn "teaching siblings" as the result of a shared family ethic in support of education?
Personally, I don't make too much of it, especially since, in the instances I know about, these family members are working in different schools or even school systems.
And, of course, it's not like the school system is even able to hire unqualified people--a great deal of specific training is required to become a teacher or a principal, either one.
All school system personnel records are open to the public, I believe.
I don't think Knox County did anything wrong with their hiring choices. I think they are trying to send a message that both schools are equally important and worthwhile.
I would think so, too, Cathy. And it may also be that they want to send a message that both schools will operate comparably (i.e., intensively academic).
I spoke with Diane Jablonski, former school board member and Farragut resident, since I shared my vague questions about Farragut High having a private foundation to benefit their school. She says yes, they do, but she couldn't venture to guess how the foundation might address the loss of any sizable contributor base rezoned to another school.
Our comrade, fixedpig, made an interesting comment in that regard earlier (don't mean to talk like you're not listening, fixedpig--I just don't know if you are). He said that his parents "moved to Farragut specifically for the school system." Of course, Farragut doesn't *have* a "school system," Knox County does.
Given Farragut's ability to circumvent so many of the Knox County school system's budget woes, though, I can see how residents might imagine they operate their own, independent "school system." It is symptomatic of the "disconnect" ennui mentions, I think.
(Bearden High and, I believe, West High also operate private foundations among KC's twelve high schools.)
Nepotism policy that is passed, will apply to KCS. It will not take all the ones currently in there today. But it will curtail any future ones.
What you will find is that many of them are second and third marriages that resulted because of work place romance and then the individuals were moved to seperate schools.
Hmmm. You raise a couple of questions, 007 (and we're starting to digress from our topic).
First, since the Ethics Policy adopted last month relies in its entirety on state law (and the text cites specific statues), I had imagined that any amendments KC might add would be added only in response to *new* state law.
Of course, it may be, since we're a home rule county, that KC could enact a policy on this or any topic that is more restrictive than state law, but I wouldn't imagine the law department would encourage the committee to go too overboard. After all, Owings et al could lose a lot of time on the front end researching how proposed policies could backfire on KC to create lawsuits--or worse, Owings could ultimately need to defend KC against those lawsuits.
Second, I would not expect to find any nepotism policy in either the existing Ethics Policy or an amended version that strictly forbade the hiring/appointing/electing of family members. I would only expect that a policy provided some guidelines for qualifying applicants.
If a policy strictly forbade family members, I would think that, sooner or later, a situation would arise in which the county entity hiring might be forced to hire some less-qualified applicant, rather than the family member applying. It seems that a scenario like that would create a high probablity of a lawsuit from the family member, affording him a claim of a discriminatory county hiring policy.
I welcome the new Ethics Policy, but the N-S has already carried a number of stories on the undue concerns of some public officials fearful of breaching it. As we learn more of the policy's particulars, I expect we'll find the guidelines are tempered with rationality.
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