Mon
Feb 12 2007
11:49 am
By: R. Neal
South Knoxville Elementary target of proposal to close two elementary schools. As I recall, this has been talked about before. Will the last parents leaving South Knoxville please turn out the lights?
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"It seems very shortsighted
"It seems very shortsighted to make that (recommendation) without knowing exactly how the riverfront development and the refurbishing of neighborhoods around here (are going to factor in)," said Felecia Venable, president of the PTO for South Knoxville Elementary. "We've almost doubled our enrollment since last year. We could be shortchanging the students."
Shortsighted? Ha, ha, ha... Wouldn't want to include the existing community in this new, "upscale" developement.
Costs of operation at *extremely* small schools
The school board has, indeed, been advised over and over in repeated school system audits to close or consolidate some of these *extremely* small schools.
In the most recent such outside audit, the board was advised in 2001 by MJM out of Houston that it might save $20 million over 20 years if a south-lying cluster of elementary schools were consolodated or closed. In Bratton's 9th district, five such schools continue to operate within a three mile radius of one another.
It is the inordinately high personnel costs at these schools that is most problematic. Personnel costs, you may realize, comprise 85% plus of the school system's operating expense. Specifically, certain personnel *can* be "shared" among schools (like PE teachers, music teachers, librarians, and various guidance/speech/nursing personnel), and these staff often serve two or more schools. Other staff *cannot* be shared, though, including principals, office staff, custodial staff, and cafeteria staff. Efficient classroom sizes are sometimes problematic at these schools, too, with teachers instructing only 8 or 10 students.
Furthermore, the stingy BEP funding formula (that "B" stands for "basic"), will not direct state funds for these principals, office staff, custodial staff, and cafeteria staff to school populations less than a certain number (that magic number used to be 525 students, but I haven't looked at it in a while). The formula also pays a percentage of teacher salary on the basis of classroom size.
Consequently, local government carries an inordinate percentage of such costs for these *extremely* small schools, impacting its ability to better funds schools that operate more efficiently. Energy costs and repairs/maintenance costs are also inordinately high at these facilities, as they are generally the system's oldest and most decrepid buildings.
I'll concede a personal bias in my own consideration of this topic. Given that I live in a rural/suburban area, I find it hard to justify the continued operation of these *extremely* small elementary schools when, in other communities, many schools have overflow populations of more than double the number students South Knox, for instance, seeks to house in their own separate building. At both Powell Elementary and Powell Middle, my community, we have housed in trailers on the back parking lot (and for over 20 years) *twice* the volume of students as attend South Knox.
In an observation of another sort, I also think consolidation of some schools might finally bring about racial integration among the county's students. I reflect, in particular, on Maynard Elementary, where I volunteered for three years through the Project Grad program--the building was constructed in 1898 and continues to isolate its children in a "pocket of despair," I think. I offer this observation with every concern for some kids near to my heart.
We might argue, of course, that the problem is essentially one of trying to "back into" an income stream for school construction from the state that is obviously inadequate. That is certainly true, but too many Tennesseans remain steadfast in their belief that no new state revenues are needed, all the while failing to confront how state allocations might be adjusted to better benefit schools. No help there in the immediate future, I fear.
The question, then, becomes one of degree, namely: How small a school is too small, given our means? We can't have it both ways.
Hey Tamara, abot those
Hey Tamara, about those portables:
(link...)
Damn New Urbanists, now they're after our kids...
Lumpy's fix!
Already seen it, Matt--from Lumpy Lambert!
Aesthetic issues aside (and Powell's trailers don't look nearly so attractive as these), several other concerns exist with portable buildings of any type, including:
1) poor indoor air quality/mold issues
2) inability to "lock down" campus,
3) lack of plumbing' and
4) potential inability to secure long-term financing/ advisability of securing long-term financing for facilities not expected to last as long as the related bond repayment period!
My early conversations with Lumpy on this subject have been cordial, but we'll go head-to-head soon enough, I'm afraid.
Lumpy embraces New Urbanism?
Lumpy embraces New Urbanism? Guess that's what happened to Nine, he died of a heart attack.
Lumpy embraces New Urbanism?
No, Lumpy is a cheapskate incapable of forward-thinking that extends beyond his belt buckle.
Just FYI, the "Learning
Just FYI, the "Learning Cottages" aren't portables. They're site built of prefabricated SIPS panels. Download the PDF file on the link and you'll see that the prototype designs have have bathrooms and functioning windows for cross ventilation.
Naw, Matt
Naw, Matt--I won't be sold on this one (and I kinda suspect you really aren't either, since you certainly understand real estate and construction matters better than most).
KCS is depreciating the *roofs* on its schools over 70 years, so God only knows how often we can afford to replace whole buildings. I still say there's no way a building of this type would survive the time span the KCS budget would require that it survive, even if financing were available and were advisable.
These "cottage" designs may or may not answer the air quality concerns I cited (given that schools aren't very good to let Mother Nature dictate indoor temps, whether we're talking portables or brick-and-mortar buildings), and my point about an inability to "lock down" campuses of this sort still stands unanswered.
I know that you know, too, the sprawled plumbing and HVAC fixtures inherent in establishing a maze of "cottages" isn't efficient--and you likely know that those school construction audits the board repeatedly solicits invariably urge 2-story, not 1-story, construction for this reason.
In a related point I failed to make, some of our overcrowded schools lack any "site" for "site built cottages" like these. Powell Elementary is one of them, where a great many school busses have difficulty accessing the cramped campus and parents providing their own transportation for kids can gain access only by lining up in *three* adjacent church parking lots. There, the campus is so small and the access is so bad, parents spend 20 minutes weaving on and off the access road, and in and out of a succession of parking lots, to finally gain access to their kids. (At the start of the school year, a Sheriff deputy and about 8 parents play traffic direction team to instruct baffled new parents in how they make actually reach the school. I've been one of those parents for about a decade now.)
Similarly, Powell Middle and Powell High each run 18 school busses and need to maintain acreage simply to allow access for drop off/dismissal of their large student populations (Disclaimer: I *do* think the high school could find a patch of dirt for expansion if it issued fewer student parking permits).
Since I wouldn't expect Lumpy to get much traction with the school board on this "cottage" notion, maybe you or he could lobby Bill Dunn? He's still carrying around those three worksheets in his hip pocket that he thinks might have sufficed for a statewide preschool program! ;-)
And where will the kids go?
"Students from South Knoxville would go to a renovated Dogwood Elementary School". LMAO. Brand new mega-elementary school already being renovated to make it more mega?
It's already scoring badly under No Child Left Behind--So let's send MORE kids there.
Dogwood is bad largely due to uninvolved parents and ineffective curriculum. Don't blame the teachers. It is the administration of our schools that sucks.
We tried to transfer out of Dogwood. Were told our kid was the wrong color to get a transfer.
He's now in private school.
Megaschools are bad. Look at Farragut. Inner-city megaschools are worse. The school board and superintendent just don't get it.
rocketsquirrel: "Students
rocketsquirrel: "Students from South Knoxville would go to a renovated Dogwood Elementary School...brand new mega-elementary school already being renovated to make it more mega?"
Not to beat up on you, rs, but I meant to offer some context earlier WRT this concept of Dogwood being a "megaschool," as it's hard for any of us to stay abreast of circumstances outside our own school communities.
You see, there are an awful lot of school communities here in KC that would take exception to any assertion that Dogwood is a "megaschool," including these, some of which are twice the size of Dogwood:
Karns Elementary, 1195
A.L.Lotts Elementary, 1114
Farragut Intermediate, 999 *and*
Farragut Primary, 960
Powell Elementary, 900-ish
Brickey Elementary, 900-ish
Contrast with:
Gap Creek, 124
South Knox, 143 (90-ish last year)
Maynard, 158 (previously as low as 104)
Corryton, 200
Lonsdale, 204
Sunnyview, 263
West Haven, 264
New Hopewell, 275
Chilhowee, 278
Mooreland Heights, 280, all data per KCS website in 2/06.
Please understand that I'm not arguing in support of every KC elementary school being so large as that of Karns Elementary--I don't want that, either. But maybe sharing these numbers will enable some to better understand why those of us whose kids attend these true "megaschools" are clamoring for more efficient, more standardized school size?
put your kid there
stop looking at data and go put your kids at Dogwood. Then we can talk from the same vantage point.
Make sure you ask for a syllabus of your child's curriculum, too. They'll tell you you can't have one. You just need to go look at the state standards web site. Don't bother to ask how they implement those standards. None of your business. And if you asked about the Project Grad parade in the fall of 2004, they would tell you that it's not for parents. Maybe that explains something about parental involvement, don't you think?
In August 2004, they delivered 69 pallets of Project Grad math manipulatives to Dogwood Elementary. Maybe if they focused on the kids rather than non-peer-reviewed psycho babble curricula from a bunch of wealthy Texas curriculum publishers, we might be able to improve our schools. You think Move-It Math and Success for All Reading were tested and peer reviewed for their efficacy before their implementation in Knox County? Think again.
Follow the money, people.
Oh, and btw, when KCS publishes its annual rankings, note that the number of students who were withdrawn to go to private school or to be homeschooled are conspicuously absent from the tallies.
KCS's motto ought to be: "providing a great education once we get rid of all these darn kids!"
Thwarting parent involvement?
rocketsquirrel: "Make sure you ask for a syllabus of your child's curriculum, too. They'll tell you you can't have one. You just need to go look at the state standards web site. Don't bother to ask how they implement those standards. None of your business. And if you asked about the Project Grad parade in the fall of 2004, they would tell you that it's not for parents. Maybe that explains something about parental involvement, don't you think?"
Well, I'd be peeved at this, too! But it sounds more like a problem of a questionable school administrative culture (or possibly inadequate training of support staff) than one of school size.
WRT course syllabi, did you carry your request to the curriculum generalist? He/she is most apt to supply syllabi, though, unfortunately, in Tennessee, this person is one of those folks serving as many as four or so schools. Still, the staff should have been able to supply you with this info--staff at Powell Elementary have done so for me in the past.
As for implementation plans, these are produced annually in each school's School Improvement Plan, and two or so parent participants are always included on the school's implementation committee (I've served at Powell Elementary in years past). Again, my kid's school keeps their plan in a binder under the front office counter, for ready review by interested parents.
Powell doesn't have any schools involved in Project Grad, but in my three years of involvment at Maynard Elementary, I received advance mailings and phone calls both, virtually begging my participation in each year's Walk for Success. I can't imagine...
I'm not aware of who the principal is at Dogwood, but I am personally acquainted with the assistant principal there, Lana Lowe. She lives here in Powell and her son has been in my Cub Scout den for several years now. Knowing Lana as I do, I feel certain she would not condone these practices you describe that deny parents the involvment and understanding she works so hard to foster! I sure would encourage you to take your concerns to her--and find a receptive audience! It's my understanding from N-S coverage that Lana's efforts were especially helpful in removing Dogwood from the NCLB's "targeted" list last year.
(Some of your remaining points weren't real clear to me. Tell me more?)
administrative culture
you are correct. it is administrative culture that is the problem, and it goes all the way to HQ. Bear with me, this is a little long.
A year or more ago, I spoke to Mayor Ragsdale about the lack of transparency in parental access to the curriculum, especially for a parent to be able to evaluate the Project Grad curricula. Ragsdale agreed that this information should be on the 'net. And by "this" I mean all grade level curricula K-12, per school. because it is not the same at each school. The standards are the same, the curricula are not. Project Grad is an example of "different" curricula. But this would also apply to schools with AP classes at the high school level, etc.
I was previously told by Dr. Donna Wright's office that the KCS curricula was (and I quote) "copyrighted and we don't want surrounding counties to have access to all our hard work."
My response was that I didn't care if they gave a copy to the Baghdad City School District. As a parent, I wanted to know how my son was being taught.
Anyway, Ragsdale said he would pass along to Wright the need to get these materials on the 'net. He suggested I contact her again. I did, by phone and by email. I still haven't heard from her.
That tells me all I need to know about how committed KCS is. It's all about CYA instead of EMC (educate my child).
My comments about Project Grad curriculum materials speak for themself. While you risk becoming persona non grata if you dare criticize Project Grad in this town, someone needs to start looking closer at it. The focus is on more curriculum materials, making the teachers jump through a bunch of hoops, and teaching kids to the test instead of teaching core knowledge. example: 69 pallets of math manipulatives for ONE elementary school. Somebody's making bank with this stuff. The focus is on the material, not on building teacher/parent/child relationships that can close the education gap. Teachers have no time with all the hoops they're made to jump through. I've bumped into quite a few teachers from time to time who can tell you exactly what it is like teaching in a Project Grad school. And many of them don't anymore.
Now what do I mean by core knowledge? I would recommend to any parents of elementary kids the books "What Your Second Grader Needs to Know: Fundamentals of a Good Second Grade Education" edited by E.D. Hirsch, Jr. They have a book for each elementary grade level.
Project Grad has adopted curricula from a specific group of publishers that are largely based in Texas and are very politically connected, which is where the whole No Child Left Behind movement began.
Incidentally, Project Grad was abandoned in Nashville, and it's hard to get anyone there to talk specifically about it.
Note too that Project Grad is more about only getting scholarships to the best and brightest of the disadvantaged, whereas an organization like College Summit recognizes the college potential of even the most average of students.
The problem with Project Grad is that it perpetuates economic segregration and promotes "two societies" in our educational system. The economically advantaged get stronger curriculum, while the disadvantaged get "special" instruction. And we all know what that means. We do the disadvantaged no favors in preparing to succeed. It doesn't level the playing field. It tilts it away from the disadvantaged.
A parent who cares, how
A parent who cares, how wonderful. An education organization that doesn't, how sad.
Thanks for your thoughtful
Thanks for your thoughtful reply, rs. I need to leave the house this a.m., so I'll look into that link a little later.
Quickly, though, I'm surprised (again) to hear that Dr. Donna Wright was unresponsive to your inquiries. Donna lives just down the street from me (you may know she was at Powell High before her promotion), and she's always responded to my inquiries in 24 hours or less. Wonder if contacting Jerry Hodges @ PG would have been more expedient, though?
I agree that PG's effectiveness should be evaluated *annually,* in the same way that non-PG schools are required to submit their School Improvement Plans to administration on that basis. I didn't know that PG escaped any accountability that way.
Your observation that PG creates "two societies" within schools is new to me and I'd be curious to hear what it is you observe in this regard. I wasn't aware that multiple curricula were delivered in PG schools.
(Thanks--more after I can read your link, then. BTW, have you felt Lowe played any part in this school culture so prone to snub parents? I'd be so disappointed to hear it...)
two curricula
no, the duality is between Project Grad schools and non-PG schools. not within them. To be blunt, we're dumbing down curriculum for disadvantaged students.
I'm serious, people. this is personal, but after a year of Dogwood kindergarten Project Grad math, my son was extremely deficient in basic math milestones that he should have learned in kindergarten. Took him two months to catch up. We were asked by his private school, "did he have any math last year?"
It's perhaps worth pointing
It's perhaps worth pointing out that, most of those suburban "megaschools" vastly outperform many/most of the small inner-city "neighborhood" schools.
And, Randy, diversifying the neighborhood is difficult. First, as far as increasing the low-income population of suburban schools perception/performance is a big chunk of property value calculations (not to mention the NIMBY factor). And, of course, parents who end up in inner city neighborhoods such as 4th and Gill, often opt out of the public schools.
There are, unfortunately, no easy solutions.
At both Powell Elementary
At both Powell Elementary and Powell Middle, my community, we have housed in trailers on the back parking lot (and for over 20 years) *twice* the volume of students as attend South Knox.
Just a quick thought. Why not bring the other areas up instead of bringing this area down?
My dream, too!
Bizgirl: "Just a quick thought. Why not bring the other areas up instead of bringing this area down?"
I couldn't agree more! I firmly believe that more state funding is needed to better afford KCS the ability to "catch up" on all the many capital funding projects languishing on its plan, some in existence since city and county schools were consolidated in 1987.
Of course, stewardship of funds would remain an issue irrespective of any increase in funding the state might one day make available.
This responsibility to direct funds to specific projects on the basis of that project's *relative* efficiency will always be one of great concern (and argument). I fear we advocates for new money won't get much traction until we accept that responsibility.
I can definitely tell you
I can definitely tell you how big a school is too big. Doyle comes to mind, or whatever they're calling it these days. So does South Middle, whatever it's called. Assembly line mass production education doesn't seem to be working out so well. A kid ought to be able to walk to school with other neighborhood kids. If you want to diversify the school, diversify the neighborhood.
Again -- Willamsburg Middle
Again --
Willamsburg Middle (Arlington, VA): 930
Passing Rates for Students Tested
Grade 8
Reading 93.4
Writing 92.7
Mathematics 93.5
History 93.9
Science 97.5
Size isn't the problem.
Quantity or Quality?
Tamara, nowhere in your post did you actually mention the education of the children, or the quality of that education. Only the infrastructure costs. Our children's education is not a comodity to be bargained away.
also, a "pocket of despair" may be such to you, but it is someone else's neighborhood.
We need schools within our communities. They are a measure of the health of the community. So are the churches. Our fearless leaders have moved all (many) of the schools and the churches out Middlebrook Pike and then act surprised when the neighborhoods they left go downhill. That's funny.
Gee, if the school board would approve Charter schools, they could reduce infrastructure costs that way, too.
rocketsquirrel: "Tamara,
rocketsquirrel: "Tamara, nowhere in your post did you actually mention the education of the children, or the quality of that education."
And that's only because I was already writing "too long!" Obviously, that's the bottom line...
I, too, have a concern about middle schools and high schools (Columbine???) becoming too big, such that students are alienated and destined to failure by virtue of their school environment. In those schools, serving kids of those ages, school size determines a kid's ability to find his or her niche among the school's various curriculum offerings and among its clubs and teams, too. Obviously, smaller schools can heighten the chance that every kid will do so.
However, the biggest drain to the KCS capital plan is in building/renovating elementary schools--50 of them, or well over half our total facilities. Consider how infrequently KCS builds/renovates middle schools and high schools, relative to the number of elementary school projects on its docket.
WRT elementary schools, though, note that these students are self-contained in their classrooms. A small classroom size, not necessarily a small school size, then, is of more effect in generating students' emotional health and academic performance, both, I think (disclaimer: I'm talking in terms of *degree* only).
A somewhat larger elementary school size does not impact the size of the classroom that school's students would experience, though. Provided the board exercises good stewardship of the new monies it should find in reducing its energy and repairs/maintenance costs this way (and in reducing the volume of debt service payments impacting its operating budget, too), it should be the case that this greater efficiency directs *more* resources to the classroom, where monies may be of greatest effect.
Randy: "If you want to
Randy: "If you want to diversify the school, diversify the neighborhood."
Good point, Randy, and I agree. I talked to Stambaugh at the N-S by phone recently, with a question about the magnet school program, and I mentioned to him the need I saw for more mixed-income residential development in Knoxville.
His thought was that only so much "interference" was appropriate with regard to maintaining "free markets" (forgive me, JJ, if I paraphrase badly).
It is somewhat unfair that the task of racial integration should fall so heavily on school systems, I think. I'm afraid I don't have an answer for that one...
Do you really want to
Do you really want to compare urban Arlington to mostly rural Knox?
Knox County – 526 sq miles
Aprox. 382,000 people
The median income for a household in the county was $37,454, and the median income for a family was $49,182. Males had a median income of $35,755 versus $25,140 for females. The per capita income for the county was $21,875. About 8.40% of families and 12.60% of the population were below the poverty line, including 14.50% of those under age 18 and 9.70% of those age 65 or over.
Arlington – 26 sq miles
Approx. 200,000 people
The median income for a household in the county was $63,001, and the median income for a family was $78,877. Males had a median income of $51,011 versus $41,552 for females. The per capita income for the county was $37,706. About 5.00% of families and 7.80% of the population were below the poverty line, including 9.10% of those under age 18 and 7.00% of those age 65 or over.
Do you really want to
Do you really want to compare urban Arlington to mostly rural Knox? [followed by a bunch of numbers that were my point]
The quality of a school is a function of all sorts of variables, but the total size of a school's student population doesn't seem to be one of them, as far as I can tell. Or are kids in East Tennessee just genetically incapable of learning in a big school, even if it is supported extremely well by the community and the teaching quality is very high?
In a big hurry today, but I
In a big hurry today, but I wanted to mention that I have repeatedly mentioned during the south waterfront process that the single best way Knox County can contribute to the revitalization of the waterfront is to support & improve South Elementary.
And BTW, the parents in IHP, which is zoned for Dogwood, are trying to get us rezoned for South. They want their kids to go there.
I wish they hadn't closed
I wish they hadn't closed all the smaller schools and just left them alone. It took away many opportunities for students to excel. there were more opportunities for students to win school spelling bee's, be involved in School Plays, be a part of sporting events and many other student activities. Take for example South Knoxville. At one time there were three High Schools. South High, Young High and eventually Doyle. Each school had their own sporting teams, clubs, and bands. The majority of students were involved in these activities, and when these schools competed against one another the energy level around these events was just incredible. You no longer have that excitement at the schools anymore, it's not a community event.
For those of you who are familiar with these schools, when they combined the schools and formed South Doyle. I felt they should have been known as the 'Young Rocket Pioneers'. Anyone get the connection?
Adrift in the Sea of Humility
Having been both a Rocket
Having been both a Rocket and a Pioneer (but never a Yellowjacket), yes.