Wed
Jan 31 2007
01:34 pm

Reuters is reporting that California may ban conventional lightbulbs by 2012. I can see it now - a huge black market and smuggling lightbulbs into California.

The "How Many Legislators Does it Take to Change a Lightbulb Act" would ban
incandescent lightbulbs by 2012 in favor of energy-saving compact fluorescent
lightbulbs.

I have only seen a compact fluorescent lightbulb (CFL) in use once. It seemed to be okay in a lamp with a shade. However, I wasn't around it very long. Also, I know you cannot use them if you have dimmers on your lights, so how are they going to get around this?

jah's picture

I've been slowly replacing

I've been slowly replacing all the ancient bulbs in our house with compact fluorescents. They're not the best thing in the world, but traditional light bulbs are old and incredibly inefficient technology. The new bulbs work fine for me, and they last forever and save money overall.

Other than the dimmer issue, I don't know what the big deal is. They are a bit less forgiving as far as harshness is concerned, but they're pretty good.

Ideally, of course, there would be a better solution. LED?

bizgrrl's picture

I really do not like

I really do not like fluorescent lightbulbs (compact or not). I certainly hope they come up with something better if they plan to ban incandescent. I do know incandescent bulbs are inefficient. Fluorescent bulbs negatively affect my tinnitus, they can interfere with some electronics, and the light output color (?) is not so good.

I have a small LED reading light, way cool. There are some LED replacement lights available, but expensive.

Number9's picture

Compact fluorescent bulbs

Try the new ones. They are much better than the ones of just a year ago. They brighten slowly, about a minute to full brightness. But the light is even better than incandescent. Much softer and much less glare.

One 65 watt compact fluorescent in the ceiling gives the light of two 65 watt incandescent and consumes only 23 watts.

Less electricity and much less heat. If you have bad power with lots of brownouts they pay for themselves quickly.

Try it. They work. Save the planet, save money. What have you got to lose?

SayUncle's picture

I hear they work well but,

I hear they work well but, for my house, I simply can't use them save for about 8 table lamps. Most lighting in my house is on dimmers and most lighting in my house comes from can lights. Hopefully, someone will come up with items for them.

But cali banning regular bulbs is retarded.

---
SayUncle
Can't we all just get a long gun?

Les Jones's picture

There are now CFLs that are

There are now CFLs that are compatible with dimmers. I don't know if you can get them at Lowe's or Home Depot, but you can find them online.

I tried CFLs about six years ago. They looked OK in some places and not others.

I kept the CFLs in the table lamps (where the shades soften the light and give it a little color), and the ones in the tracklights in the kitchen. The ones in the tracklight have covers over the bulbs. I like covered bulbs for that application, and think that in general the covered ones are less distracting and maybe even give off a less harsh light than the CFLs with naked bulbs.

I bought a semi-expensive new "full spectrum" CFL a couple weeks ago to use in a torchiere. Looked awful. My wife said it looked like "porn lighting." Just really harsh. Went back to the somewhat dim CFL I had there before.

Insty liked the G.E. "soft white fluorescent 75.

www.lesjones.com

Brian A.'s picture

Did someone say black market?

Heh.

Brian A.
I'd rather be cycling.

redmondkr's picture

I read somewhere that LED

I read somewhere that LED technology gains should allow a replacement for the incandescent lamp within about five years that will be economically attractive considering the life of the lamp, output, and electrical cost saving. They are a bit dear at the moment.

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Number9's picture

Hoochie mama

about five years that will be economically attractive considering the life of the lamp, output, and electrical cost saving. They are a bit dear at the moment.

Those are expensive.

jah's picture

They're expensive, but they

They're expensive, but they last forever.

I understand that LEDs outlive their usefulness right now, because by the time they burn out, you will have wanted to replace them for a more efficient/attractive model.

zoomfactor's picture

Just turn off the lights when you aren't in the room!

The NYTimes had a good article recently about the aesthetics of CFLs. Generally, designers hate them because they make human skin look like death. And Americans associate them with being at work.

Justin's picture

I have CFL's installed in my

I have CFL's installed in my bedroom/night stand lamps and they work great. Takes them about a minute to get bright but I notice no difference whatsoever vs a regular light.

Rachel's picture

We are gradually moving to

We are gradually moving to CF bulbs. They took a bit of getting used to, but I'm fine with them now. We have them in our lamps and in the bathroom fixtures above the sink. I actually like them better in the bathroom than incandescents.

redmondkr's picture

The fluorescents have

The fluorescents have another advantage (in the summer) in that they put less heat load on your AC. One of their disadvantages, though is their gradual loss of output. You don't tend to notice it until you replace them and then you think, "Wow! I only thought I was going blind."

I've also noticed that the new environmentally friendly mercury-free lamps in my basement are not happy in a cold place.

On another note, when I worked at Y-12, we spent about 99 cents apiece for new four-foot tubes and about $6.00 apiece to dispose of the old ones.

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CL's picture

I tried a CFL in my home

I tried a CFL in my home office and like regular fluorescent lights, it trigged headaches. Regular fluorescent can make ADD symptoms worse too.

Number9's picture

It goes to show...

CF's have worked so well in my house I am surprised to learn they are not for everyone. Which shows how difficult solutions to Global Warming will be.

I got them primarily because they save money since I have LCUB power and frequent power fluctuations which eat incandescent light bulbs like candy. Prior to CF's I used 130 volt industrial bulbs.

I had no idea they caused headaches or distorted color. Maybe I found a good brand or just got lucky or just don't notice.

Moral of the story, once again Cali is just crazy.

WhitesCreek's picture

California isn't

California isn't crazy...just a few years late. If they had done this during the Enron energy shortage, there wouldn't have been an energy shortage. Replacing incandescents with CFLs eliminates the need for a large number of new power plants.

I have one incandescent bulb left in my house. My flashlights are all LED and I can't remember when I replaced a battery in a flashlight...or a bulb.

Actually, I have replaced most of my hand held flashlights with LED headlamps. My current favorite is the Petzl Tikka plus. Bright enough to ride a mountain bike with.

Steve

and 9: Which shows how difficult solutions to Global Warming will be. I guess this means you are ready to work on this daunting problem with us. CFLs and LEDs are a good start.

jah's picture

Actually, I have replaced

Actually, I have replaced most of my hand held flashlights with LED headlamps. My current favorite is the Petzl Tikka plus. Bright enough to ride a mountain bike with.

Those things are beautiful! I got one a couple of weeks ago for home renovation projects and gathering firewood at night. I don't know what I'd do without it.

And yeah, I think Cali's on the right track. When Apple did away with floppy drives, everyone mocked them. But now I can't imagine having to go back to floppies.

Eleanor A's picture

We should all be so crazy.

We should all be so crazy. California has banned emissions from cars, coal-fired power plants, and the California Air Resources Board (ARB) is developing a joint plan with the California Energy Commission (CEC) to spend $25 million for the purposes of incentivizing the use and production of alternative fuels including zero emission fuels.

They also passed this. If TN ever did anything even close, I'd pass out of pure shock. Instead, TWRA policies are much more oriented towards hunters than towards the public or toward conservation, and the national park within our borders has the worst air quality in the nation.

Here's a taste of the California Enviro Quality Act.

§ 21001. Additional legislative intent

The Legislature further finds and declares that it is the policy of the state to:

(a) Develop and maintain a high-quality environment now and in the future, and take all action necessary to protect, rehabilitate, and enhance the environmental quality of the state.

(b) Take all action necessary to provide the people of this state with clean air and water, enjoyment of aesthetic, natural, scenic, and historic environmental qualities, and freedom from excessive noise.

(c) Prevent the elimination of fish or wildlife species due to man's activities, insure that fish and wildlife populations do not drop below self-prepetuating levels, and preserve for future generations representations of all plant and animal communities and examples of the major periods of California history.

(d) Ensure that the long-term protection of the environment, consistent with the provision of a decent home and suitable living environment for every Californian, shall be the guiding criterion in public decisions.

(e) Create and maintain conditions under which man and nature can exist in productive harmony to fulfill the social and economic requirements of present and future generations.

(f) Require governmental agencies at all levels to develop standards and procedures necessary to protect environmental quality.

(g) Require governmental agencies at all levels to consider qualitative factors as well as economic and technical factors and long-term benefits and costs, in addition to short-term benefits and costs and to consider alternatives to proposed actions affecting the environment.

cafkia's picture

all overcomeable issues

Yes you can purchase dimmable CFL or standard tube FL. The ballast is the key. There are also ways to alter the frequency of the power so that the headache/seizure thing goes away but, that may be really expensive, I don't know.

I had an 11w CFL that I left on for about 13 years. It was still working when I moved out of the house. LED will become more and more common in the near futue. They have a pretty standard life of 100,000 hours (at which time they can be generally expected to work but at a light output of less than 70% of original). That is 25years if the light is on 40% of the time.

The California decision makes plenty of sense to me. Without such motivation, even those who consider themselves liberals will resist change. Only the true environmental progressives, seriously frugals, and tech geeks will adopt the new and sensible stuff.

CAFKIA

----------------------------------------------------------- 

It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.
  - William G. McAdoo

cdthomas23's picture

Dimmable CFLs

So, to get a dimmable CFL, do I have to change out something in my lamps as well? Or is it simply a different CFL bulb? If I have to do something in my lamp or buy new lamps, I don't think this is a great option. I think one of the only ways this is going to catch on is for them to work in already existing fixtures (which they do for the most part).

Craig Thomas
(link...)

Factchecker's picture

Misc. thoughts on CFLs

...do I have to change out something in my lamps as well? Or is it simply a different CFL bulb?

I have one of the special dimmable types. It's a little larger and more expensive, but works OK. I've never heard of special dimmers for regular CFLs; don't think it's doable.

Beyond the (short) warmup time and not being dimmable, the issues I've had with regular CFLs are some of my fixtures being too small for them (though there are newer, smaller bulbs out now) and a few have failed prematurely. The newer ones seem to be more reliable and I agree that the light looks very good to me.

Fluorescents in general seem to be better suited for bulbs that stay on for longer durations, as opposed to short periods, which is the way most of ours are used (bathrooms, short tasks, etc.). But hopefully they're tweaking the reliablity to work better in low duty apps. Anyway, most of ours used that way (but not all) are lasting without failure.

I have tinnitus and have not noticed any interaction -- that's interesting. I've heard the spectrum could be bad for other ailments, but again it looks warm and very incandescent-like to me.

By far most of our lighting is fluorescent tubes of the 4' kind, though we have a lot of CFL bulbs outside. They work even in the very cold, but take longer to warm up to full brightness.

The one type of CFLs I've not liked is the spot/covered types, maybe like the ones Les likes. The ones I tried take much longer to warm up and never get bright enough.

Some criticize CFLs for having some mercury, but I've heard that they use less total mercury by requiring less coal to be burned, if that's the electric fuel--as it is here, since coal contains mercury too. Also, the CFL's mercury is contained to the device, instead of vaporized into the air.

Rachel's picture

Please stop with the "Cali"

Please stop with the "Cali" bit. The spouse's brother and sister live in northern CALIFORNIA - natives hate the "Cali" thing.

Also the "San Fran" deal. Locals simply call it "The City."

jah's picture

We're not locals. We were

We're not locals. We were shortening it because we didn't want to type out the whole word.

It irks me to hear "cali" or "san fran" or "hotlanta," for that matter (or KP for Kingston Pike - *shudder*), but I'm all for shortening on message boards.

jah's picture

And we're certainly not

And we're certainly not going to call it "the city."

That's just messed up.

Number9's picture

In the spirit of compromise

Please stop with the "Cali" bit.

Okay, from now on, "Crazy Cali".

ultron's picture

I will continue to use

I will continue to use KnoxVegas in casual conversation.

:)

bizgrrl's picture

I will continue to use SoKno

I will continue to use SoKno in my comments referring to South Knoxville.

jah's picture

Well, I will continue to use

Well, I will continue to use OKno in conversation.

redmondkr's picture

A few years ago one of

A few years ago one of Edison's original incandescent lamps was removed from service in the basement of Biltmore House. The guide on the "Behind the Scenes" tour said that it had been operating continuously since the house was opened in 1895.

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