Traffic Cameras are Knox Republican Party's Tribute to a Police State
Submitted by KnoxVol on Mon, 2007/01/29 - 6:14am.
At election time the Knox County Republican Party screams and cries about the greatness of it's political leaders. Yet, when their elected officials act like a bunch of tin pot communists they remain silent.
Has anyone ever before seen a more hideous looking device than Knoxville Mayor Bill Haslam's traffic camera in the picture? Looks like a picture right out of communist eastern Europe.
The wicked hideous traffic cameras at key intersections in the city are indicators of a communist mindset in the city government. Stunning. Unbelievable.
This country's forefathers have fought and died to give us our freedoms and liberties. Are we going to stand idly by and let a bunch of greedy self serving politicians take them away?
Submitted by Johnny Ringo on Mon, 2007/01/29 - 7:12am.
My recollection is that everyone on city council except Steve Hall (a Republican I guess) voted for the cameras, and although it's dangerous to say this since they are all non partisan elected officials, its seems clear that some of those who voted for the cameras would be considered Democrats.
So maybe you should ease up a bit on the partisan slam. It looks like both Parties (to the extent that there ARE Parties) were parties to this decision.
Johnny Ringo said: "So maybe you should ease up a bit on the partisan slam. It looks like both Parties (to the extent that there ARE Parties) were parties to this decision." - Their leader is an R.
StaceyDs Cat: "He does apparently not like vehicle related fines" - Glad you looked that thread up. It might remind the visitors to this thread how self serving public officials put themselves first. I don't like politicians using the government against their own people.
Submitted by Bill Pittman on Mon, 2007/01/29 - 9:41am.
I must agree that that the cameras are not aesthetically pleasing...and I don't recall seeing pix of them when it was announced that they were being considered but with that said, it is a use of technology that seems cost-effective.
Additionally, it is reviewed by an officer ... in my opinion, we need greater use of technology.
I pass by these cameras 4 times per day as I travel to and from my office. It may be just my perception and it is certainly only anecdotal but when originally installed, they seemed to be a great many sudden and dangerous stops immediately on yellow but over time, traffic has adjusted. On each and every occasion where I have witnessed the strobe illuminate, it was someone doing something dangerous.
Well, I haven't gotten a ticket yet, but I have nearly gotten into wrecks because of the cameras. And I have had times when I've not turned right on red out of fear of a ticket.
I hear what you're saying, Bill, but it doesn't sound like progress to me.
The one at the intersection of Henley and Western really irritated me when it was first installed. While in the turn lane to make a left onto Western from traveling north on Henley you could expect to go through several light changes before being able to turn. It would only allow three or four cars to turn before the light would change. I felt they did this to entice drivers into trying to beat the light knowing they would catch some with the cameras.
My view is there are WAY too many traffic lights. They frequently have been dispensed willy nilly with little forethought. Pulling up to a traffic light at an intersection that only a few hours of the day, or not at all, has the traffic volume to remotely require a light, and sit there is ridiculous. If these cameras become more prevalent than a few high volume intersections, which my guess is they will, then that has less to do with safety than revenue. Which makes them wrong.
The wicked hideous traffic cameras at key intersections in the city are indicators of a communist mindset in the city government.....This country's forefathers have fought and died to give us our freedoms and liberties.
Dude, I'm with Sandra on this one. Oppose the red light cameras if you want, but I hardly think Bill Haslam is a Communist. And my Dad fought in the World War II and I'm pretty damn sure it wasn't to secure my right to be safe from red light cameras.
Submitted by canoe dragger on Tue, 2007/01/30 - 12:31am.
knoxvol, your hysteria about "communism" is quaint, but the 1950s are over. the term "communism" refers to a classless, STATELESS society. don't see how surveillance cameras would figure in, sorry. time to find another boogeyman?
Brian A. said "but really, what do they have to do with communism?" - Any time the government gets more power and control at the expense of citizens it's a step toward a communist/police state. Clearly and unfortunately Bill Haslam's traffic cameras is a step in that direction.
canoe dragger said "the term "communism" refers to a classless, STATELESS society." - In theory communism has no rich and no poor. Theory is not reality, though. Those in the old Soviet Union who had government power (maybe 1% of the population) lived in opulence and plenty. The rest of the Russians lived in poverty.
Isn't Bill Haslam the same one who got the Sevier County government to build him a new stadium for his Tennessee Smokies baseball team? Didn't Sevier County have to have a tax increase because of this guy? http://www.smokiesbaseball.com/
Haslam has a history of giving himself more power at the citizens' or taxpayers' expense. Despicable.
Submitted by WhitesCreek on Tue, 2007/01/30 - 10:09am.
The failure of Communism was that is has never actually existed and probably can't exist as a governing entity. What the Soviets had was something else they branded Communism, but was in fact based on authoritarianism and centralized control...Much like what we are seeing in the Bushista manuverings.
Traffic Light cameras as a concept that generates direct revenue for a corporation and a government sure isn't communism, but it might lean toward fascism in its execution.
WhitesCreek said "Traffic Light cameras as a concept that generates direct revenue for a corporation and a government sure isn't communism, but it might lean toward fascism in its execution."
I see what you're saying but, no, they're not fascists. A key member (elected official) of the Knox County Republican Party has hired two Jewish persons, both of which were fairly high profile, as consultants and/or political operatives. I don't think that a fascist-oriented political party would have done that. The traffic camera spy on and control you government mindset, corporation or not, is definitely of the communist variety.
Submitted by WhitesCreek on Wed, 2007/01/31 - 8:31am.
KV...Do you have a dictionary by any chance? I'm sure you do, actually. Why don't you do a litle light reading and come back to us.
Word meanings have been tortured into strange and contradictory concetualizations by the propaganda departments of political campaigns and corporate marketing department. This is done for mean and nasty purposes. The word "liberal" for instance is a beautiful thing. Jesus was a well known Liberal. He would never have stood for traffic cameras. Pontius Pilate? Well, Sure.
Submitted by djuggler on Tue, 2007/01/30 - 10:16pm.
Oh, it's not just cameras and microphones, the UK is considering x-ray devices in lampposts to scan for weapons. If they get them, then we will get them.
Oh, it's not just cameras and microphones, the UK is considering x-ray devices in lampposts to scan for weapons. If they get them, then we will get them.
That has got to be the most distressing thing I've heard all day, and I don't even own a gun. ;) Okay, well, that on top of talk about implementing a huge tax on vehicles to combat global warming. No, maybe those two on top of the story of implementing a draft is the most distressing thing I've heard all day. This has become Knox-views-gloom-and-doom.com.
Submitted by Number9 on Tue, 2007/01/30 - 11:33pm.
I don't think so. Just a discussion that can help. We are not lemmings and just because other parts of Europe will use Global Warming to tax automobiles doesn't mean we have to jump off any cliffs. But we do need to talk about the problem and find some reasonable answers.
My recollection is that everyone on city council except Steve Hall (a Republican I guess) voted for the cameras, and although it's dangerous to say this since they are all non partisan elected officials, its seems clear that some of those who voted for the cameras would be considered Democrats.
So maybe you should ease up a bit on the partisan slam. It looks like both Parties (to the extent that there ARE Parties) were parties to this decision.
hmmm, this outrage seems consistent with someone who got nailed by the camera.
He does apparently not like vehicle related fines:
Link...
So as someone put it to you there, did you fight it, or did you do nothing?
And are red light cameras going to be same song, second verse?
Since when is running a red light an inalienable right?
Our founders fought for THIS? -- s.
Johnny Ringo said: "So maybe you should ease up a bit on the partisan slam. It looks like both Parties (to the extent that there ARE Parties) were parties to this decision." - Their leader is an R.
StaceyDs Cat: "He does apparently not like vehicle related fines" - Glad you looked that thread up. It might remind the visitors to this thread how self serving public officials put themselves first. I don't like politicians using the government against their own people.
Those things are hideous, I'll grant you that. They make our city uglier.
And they certainly seem to make it less safe as well.
I must agree that that the cameras are not aesthetically pleasing...and I don't recall seeing pix of them when it was announced that they were being considered but with that said, it is a use of technology that seems cost-effective.
Additionally, it is reviewed by an officer ... in my opinion, we need greater use of technology.
I pass by these cameras 4 times per day as I travel to and from my office. It may be just my perception and it is certainly only anecdotal but when originally installed, they seemed to be a great many sudden and dangerous stops immediately on yellow but over time, traffic has adjusted. On each and every occasion where I have witnessed the strobe illuminate, it was someone doing something dangerous.
Just my experience,
Bill
Well, I haven't gotten a ticket yet, but I have nearly gotten into wrecks because of the cameras. And I have had times when I've not turned right on red out of fear of a ticket.
I hear what you're saying, Bill, but it doesn't sound like progress to me.
Greater safety could have been accomplished by implementing a uniform and consistent yellow light duration and a 2 second hold time on green lights.
Was this about safety or was it about revenue? 40,000 tickets at $50.00 each. It is hard to argue with that.
For once, I agree with #9. If they were just thinking about safety, there was a better way to do it.
40,000 tickets at $50.00 each
Not to mention that the manufacturers of the cameras install them for free because they get a portion of the money made off of the tickets.
Link...
The one at the intersection of Henley and Western really irritated me when it was first installed. While in the turn lane to make a left onto Western from traveling north on Henley you could expect to go through several light changes before being able to turn. It would only allow three or four cars to turn before the light would change. I felt they did this to entice drivers into trying to beat the light knowing they would catch some with the cameras.
Adrift in the Sea of Humility
My view is there are WAY too many traffic lights. They frequently have been dispensed willy nilly with little forethought. Pulling up to a traffic light at an intersection that only a few hours of the day, or not at all, has the traffic volume to remotely require a light, and sit there is ridiculous. If these cameras become more prevalent than a few high volume intersections, which my guess is they will, then that has less to do with safety than revenue. Which makes them wrong.
London has cameras in their neighborhoods that you can watch on your tv ala Big Brother.
Apparently cameras are suspectible to fire and dynamite.
What's after cameras? Microphones ala 1984.
but really, what do they have to do with communism?
Brian A.
I'd rather be cycling.
The wicked hideous traffic cameras at key intersections in the city are indicators of a communist mindset in the city government.....This country's forefathers have fought and died to give us our freedoms and liberties.
Dude, I'm with Sandra on this one. Oppose the red light cameras if you want, but I hardly think Bill Haslam is a Communist. And my Dad fought in the World War II and I'm pretty damn sure it wasn't to secure my right to be safe from red light cameras.
knoxvol, your hysteria about "communism" is quaint, but the 1950s are over. the term "communism" refers to a classless, STATELESS society. don't see how surveillance cameras would figure in, sorry. time to find another boogeyman?
(note: "hysteria" is a gendered term)
Brian A. said "but really, what do they have to do with communism?" - Any time the government gets more power and control at the expense of citizens it's a step toward a communist/police state. Clearly and unfortunately Bill Haslam's traffic cameras is a step in that direction.
canoe dragger said "the term "communism" refers to a classless, STATELESS society." - In theory communism has no rich and no poor. Theory is not reality, though. Those in the old Soviet Union who had government power (maybe 1% of the population) lived in opulence and plenty. The rest of the Russians lived in poverty.
Isn't Bill Haslam the same one who got the Sevier County government to build him a new stadium for his Tennessee Smokies baseball team? Didn't Sevier County have to have a tax increase because of this guy?
http://www.smokiesbaseball.com/
Haslam has a history of giving himself more power at the citizens' or taxpayers' expense. Despicable.
...the evolution of US capitalism toward a corporatist state, with no democratic pretensions whatsoever.
The failure of Communism was that is has never actually existed and probably can't exist as a governing entity. What the Soviets had was something else they branded Communism, but was in fact based on authoritarianism and centralized control...Much like what we are seeing in the Bushista manuverings.
Traffic Light cameras as a concept that generates direct revenue for a corporation and a government sure isn't communism, but it might lean toward fascism in its execution.
Power to the Corporations
Steve
See above.
WhitesCreek said "Traffic Light cameras as a concept that generates direct revenue for a corporation and a government sure isn't communism, but it might lean toward fascism in its execution."
I see what you're saying but, no, they're not fascists. A key member (elected official) of the Knox County Republican Party has hired two Jewish persons, both of which were fairly high profile, as consultants and/or political operatives. I don't think that a fascist-oriented political party would have done that. The traffic camera spy on and control you government mindset, corporation or not, is definitely of the communist variety.
KV...Do you have a dictionary by any chance? I'm sure you do, actually. Why don't you do a litle light reading and come back to us.
Word meanings have been tortured into strange and contradictory concetualizations by the propaganda departments of political campaigns and corporate marketing department. This is done for mean and nasty purposes. The word "liberal" for instance is a beautiful thing. Jesus was a well known Liberal. He would never have stood for traffic cameras. Pontius Pilate? Well, Sure.
Steve
Now it's a Communist/Jewish conspiracy. Heh.
Brian A.
I'd rather be cycling.
Oh, it's not just cameras and microphones, the UK is considering x-ray devices in lampposts to scan for weapons. If they get them, then we will get them.
Oh, it's not just cameras and microphones, the UK is considering x-ray devices in lampposts to scan for weapons. If they get them, then we will get them.
That has got to be the most distressing thing I've heard all day, and I don't even own a gun. ;) Okay, well, that on top of talk about implementing a huge tax on vehicles to combat global warming. No, maybe those two on top of the story of implementing a draft is the most distressing thing I've heard all day. This has become Knox-views-gloom-and-doom.com.
Adrift in the Sea of Humility
I don't think so. Just a discussion that can help. We are not lemmings and just because other parts of Europe will use Global Warming to tax automobiles doesn't mean we have to jump off any cliffs. But we do need to talk about the problem and find some reasonable answers.
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