With no kids at home now, I am NOT a shopper. I only go to Bearden Kroger (which is my social life - seeing all my old friends on Wednesday) and Target and Lowe's. I have not been inside the Mall except for the Apple store in 2006, and never to Turkey Creek. I have anxiety attacks in WalMart. I guess I'm just economic bad news.

Rather than ghetto Target, how about Targhetto?

Also, I work on one side of Turkey Creek. I hate my life...(I drive from Midway Rd. every week day, ugh)

Sorry for the Elvis earworm, but that story reminds me of another example of West Knoxville snobbery I once witnessed.

I was shopping at West Town on a Friday off work, and while I checked out at one of the department stores and the sales woman mentioned that an item I was buying would be on sale starting the next day and asked whether I wanted to come back for it then.

I thanked her but said I tried to avoid the mall on weekends because of the crowds.

The shopper behind me in line said the crowds aren't bad Saturday morning.

I told the other shopper I'd rather be at the Farmers Market on Saturday mornings.

"What farmers market?" she asked.

"The one downtown."

"Downtown Knoxville?"

"Yes," I said.

"Oh, I don't go to Knoxville," she said.

I considered saying "Lady, you're in Knoxville -- booga-booga!" but I settled for rolling my eyes and completing my transaction.

Have to admit I haven't shopped at TC or downtown this year. Pretty much stuck to BC and West Town.

Yes, we need a Costco!

I'd like a Macy's just because of the great TV ads we've been seeing lately.

Yes, we should consider children who, legally, cannot drive.

If you think children should be chauffered everywhere, then parking lots are teh awesome.

I would prefer to live in a place where children, at least those of a certain age, have the ability to go for an ice cream cone without having to climb into the back of Mom's minivan. They could walk there.

And teenagers could take a bus to a downtown movie theater.

Turdkey Crick was a waste of public monies and an abuse of the public trust. It is not enhancing our economy, ecology, social or political structure. As a matter of fact, a reasonalble argument might be made that it is instead, to the detriment of those aspects of our community.

The Turkey Creek Shopping Complex was a waste of taxpayer dollars? How so Cafkia?

Knoxville, Knox County, and Farragut invested 9.5 million dollars in roads for the Turkey Creek Shopping Complex. It returns currently 11 million dollars in sales taxes each year with that number going up every year.

Let's compare that taxpayer investment with other taxpayers investments of the recent past:

9 million dollars of taxpayer money for the TIFF for the Northshore Town Center for roads, no return at this point, no commercial tenants have been signed for the project. Difficult to tell if this project will succeed.

57 million dollars of taxpayer money for the Midway Industrial Park, no return at this point. This will many years from now be the largest failure in Knox County history trumping the current champion the Knox County Farmers Market.

70 million dollars of taxpayer money for the South Knox Waterfront, no return at this point and no discussion of the total cost to taxpayers. If they build it will people come? Can you TIFF your way to prosperity? Will form based codes destroy the community that exists today? Get those poor people out of there…Government funded red lining and gentrification. At least gemini is happy. Good luck Mamaw.

4 million dollars of taxpayer money for the South Grove Shopping Center, no return at this point. Look for the State to investigate the illegal “One man, One Vote” election.

165 million dollars of taxpayer money for the Knoxville Convention Center, no return at this point, this project costs Knoxville 9 million dollars a year in operating costs and cost Knox County 2 million dollars in operating costs. There will be no break even in our life time. This was a stupid mistake that should have never happened. The bigger question is what can be done with a White Elephant? Not even UT will buy this piece of junk.

12 million dollars of taxpayer money for the failed Farmers Market, not only no return at this point this lost millions of taxpayer dollars. The Farmers Market was demolished and sold for a fraction of its value to Target who then turned around and sold 30 acres of land they did not need for a sizable profit. No breakeven here, the largest failure in Knox County history. Yet.

9 million dollars of taxpayer money for the Downtown Movie Theaters, no return at this point. Will this project ever break even? Regal’s investment is less than 2.5 million making them a minority partner. Does that tell you anything? Will it last five years? Eight?

8 million dollars of taxpayer money for the Market Square Mall project, how much return at this point? Some. A large part of the Market Square was funded with drug money that will no longer be available. There is a break even out there some day but it is far away and unfortunately a great deal depends on the draw of the Downtown Cinemas.

8.5 million dollars of taxpayer money for the security bond for the Women’s Basketball Hall of Fame, very little return at this point. This project would be a complete failure if not for the school filed trips that keep it a float. Why can’t we force school kids to go to the Knoxville Convention Center so it can make some money?

Coster Shop, the Candy Factory, and so on and so on. You get the idea…

So let’s review. For the past seventeen years Knox County and Knoxville governments have taken every risky bet that has come alone and between them they have one great success. The Turkey Creek Shopping Complex. But a very few people are so concerned about the snail darter, just joking, they wish it to fail. Even though millions were spent to maintain the wetlands that is still not good enough. Where are Cafkia and the other environmentalists on the Midway Industrial Park? Going to sit that one out? Figures.

What have we learned in those seventeen years? If you built it they may not come, unless of course you build it next the Interstate in West Knoxville. When you pay your property taxes this year think about the win loss record of your local government. If this were a football team would you keep the coach?

So we live in a place where as long as there is the “illusion of harmony” between two inefficient bumbling governments it doesn’t matter how large the corporate welfare handouts are to millionaire developers as long as the PR is good.

Suckers.

We really deserve what we get don’t we? I could care less what private developers do with THEIR money. I care about what the local government does with MY money. The Turkey Creek Shopping Complex may be the king of sprawl but at least there was a return on investment.

So do we continue on the same course? Or is it time to take back the government?

Every retail space in the past has exhibited a lifespan. I know Maryville better than Knoxville, and to take an example J.C. Penney's and Proffitt's went from downtown Maryville to the strip mall at Midland in the late Sixties and to the indoor mall at Foothills in 1982.

So, yeah, Turkey Creek may indeed wind up as a retail backwater in 20 years, but (and I don't think this was cafkia's point, but it's mine) that's the nature of the beast. You can't call "freeze" and expect time to stop. Fashions and fortunes change.

Uh, you're reading way more into what I said than was there. We're cool.

The Knox Metro area has 600,00 to 700,000 people. What is the center of the Metro area?

Based on money or people?

Based on Money I would guess it would be centered around West Hills and moving west at a brisk pace.

Based on People I would guess It would center around Bearden drifting South-East. If this makes any sense. Pure guess!

Adrift in the Sea of Humility

What is the center of the Metro area?

Cedar Bluff. You may not like it but it is true.

It's not just that they built it on a wetland, which is inexcusable regardless of what they did a hundred years ago.

It's also freakin' far away from where the majority of Knoxvillians live. The population center of Knoxville is pretty dern close to the actual center - a half a mile or so North of town, I think.

I refuse to spend that much time in a car to shop. And I refuse to tell them it's ok for them to put stores so far away from where I live (also within a half a mile of the population center of Knoxville).

People shopping at Turkey Creek not only say it's ok for them to build on wetlands that should be preserved, but they also say it's ok to build stores 20 minutes from where they live. They're saying they don't mind the driving and the sprawl. Well, I do mind the driving. And I mind that everyone else is doing the driving.

And in another ten years or so, Turkey Creek will be a 15 year old shopping center that people won't necessarily want to drive to anymore. And it will get more unattractive. And it will be a pleasant welcome to anyone coming in from the west.

I'd be willing to bet the results will be stronger for downtown, but I also wonder if there aren't more people naturally oriented towards the type of arts and entertainment, and mom and pop restaurants, that are found in downtown as opposed to the more corporate-leaning turkey creek.

Unless "stay up a few days" means it'll keep popping up in my feed reader, which is obnoxious.

I go to Turkey Creek about, um, never. I refuse on principle, because of where they built the thing.