Tue
Dec 26 2006
06:17 pm
Is James White Parkway needed?
By: Bill Pittman

I've noticed on another listserv as well as in a KNS letter to the editor, that some are wondering about the need for the James White Parkway (JWP) now that Hall of Fame (HOF) has opened.

Personally, I like HOF with the following exceptions:

-Sequencing of the lights is poor.
-It was opened without street lights creating a very dangerous situation.
-It did not include an new, urban-friendly connection to Broadway.
-Additional striping at the Summit Hill interesection could help facilitate turns and prevent folks from turning into the wrong lane of oncoming traffic which I've witnessed twice.
-There is no street signage at the major intersections.
-The on/off ramps to I40 are a too short.

Now that this new "city street" is open, it does appear that it will run parallel to the new JWP when complete...which begs the question: why? With the exception of 6 Saturdays in the fall, JWP is NEVER overcrowded and the new HOF can handle the traffic very easily. If I'm not mistaken (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong), but First Creek was covered up by JWP initially. Might that plot of land make a nice greenway or other river-walk type area?

Topics:
Up Goose Creek's picture

HOF Drive

Submitted by Up Goose Creek on Tue, 2006/12/26 - 11:35pm.

" -Sequencing of the lights is poor."

Hear, hear. I hope someone will take a stopwatch and time how long it takes to get from one end to the other. Add to that the mistimed lights east of the safety building and it's a huge waste of time.

Then we could get a figure for the number of cars/day and the prevailing wage and make up a formula to evaluate the economic impact of all those mis-timed lights.

On the positive side, the new bridge over I-40 is a beauty. Plus I'm thrilled to death* that one can get to and from I-40 going in both directions. Now HOF has the potential to be a vibrant commercial corridor.

*death being the operative word here - as it stands I could get on I-40 E from downtown and swoop over to HOF but that merge onto I 40 is so horrible I avoid it. I miss the chicken city ramp in the worst way.

Back to your original question: is JWP needed? The answer depends on 2 things. The main one is will the JWP be extended to Chapman Highway? If so, then yes, there will be a LOT more traffic. Even if it's not, we will desperately need the JWP and its connection to I-40 during the time when the Henley St bridge is being rebuilt.

jah's picture

As I drove through this

Submitted by jah on Wed, 2006/12/27 - 2:05pm.

As I drove through this morning, I realized that every time I use HOF, I hit every single light either red or just after the turn signal goes away.

jah's picture

I'm just excited that we now

Submitted by jah on Tue, 2006/12/26 - 10:49pm.

I'm just excited that we now have a "signature bridge."

Every town needs a signature bridge.

Next, I'm hoping for a signature intersection, a signature road, a signature walkway, a signature....

Stan G's picture

Submitted by jah on Tue,

Submitted by Stan G on Tue, 2006/12/26 - 11:40pm.

Submitted by jah on Tue, 2006/12/26 - 10:49pm.

I'm just excited that we now have a "signature bridge."

Every town needs a signature bridge.

Spanning an Interstate that will soon be closed to traffic.

jbr's picture

Personally I have always

Submitted by jbr on Wed, 2006/12/27 - 2:39am.

Personally I have always thought JWP was a very questionable project. There are already at least 8 roads that go from the river to at least John Sevier highway and 2 go to Maryville, 2 to Sevierville and 2 to Asheville. JWP on south side is squeezed between 2 roads that are parallel, go all the way to Sevier county, and are less than 1/2 mile apart.

These articles might be of interest...

(link...)
(link...)
(link...)
(link...)

Thanks

Factchecker's picture

Scrap JWP for good

Submitted by Factchecker on Wed, 2006/12/27 - 10:49pm.

I was going to mention the first Jack Neely column linked above by jbr. Opened my eyes to the KnoxGOBs (and stateGOBs, etc.) just being in it as a race to maximize asphalt contracts.

Not being able to time lights is just ridiculous. Oak Ridge did it successfully on the O.R. turnpike over 30 years ago without fancy computers or modern sensing devices.

Stan G's picture

Submitted by Factchecker on

Submitted by Stan G on Wed, 2006/12/27 - 11:45pm.

Submitted by Factchecker on Wed, 2006/12/27 - 10:49pm.
I was going to mention the first Jack Neely column linked above by jbr. Opened my eyes to the KnoxGOBs (and stateGOBs, etc.) just being in it as a race to maximize asphalt contracts.

Well, it just growed. First as part of a plan to encircle downtown Knoxville - then the retail and commercial center of East Tennessee - with an expressway. Then came the pre I-40 planned, post I-40 built South Knoxville Bridge. Then came a few folks living in South Knoxville who politicked for a connection to I-40 and Neyland Drive; needless to say, at the time TDOT was in need of a project.

Not being able to time lights is just ridiculous. Oak Ridge did it successfully on the O.R. turnpike over 30 years ago without fancy computers or modern sensing devices.

Oak Ridge and Rockwood - I was aways amazed traveling US 70 through Rockwood to see the lights turn green before my eyes.

Not sure who's timing the lights in Knoxville these days; at one time, it was contracted out. Personally, I found it hard to believe that the Dept of Traffic Engineering had no one on staff who could operate a stopwatch and enter data into a computer program.

rikki's picture

See more roads

Submitted by rikki on Wed, 2006/12/27 - 1:00pm.

The only thing working in JWP's favor is inertia. South Knoxville certainly doesn't need it extended, though Seymour might. If the goal is to connect Seymour to Knoxville, the optimal route is across Dickinson Island and toward Forks of the River. There's a fairly industrialized corridor there that could be stitched together with bridges and elevated spans and cause little disruption to either residential areas or natural areas. The rail line traversed by the Three Rivers Rambler is a fair approximation for this route. Once you get to Forks of the River, you just hook in to John Sevier Highway to get on the south side of the French Broad, at which point any additional convenience roads would run through the communities they serve (Hopewell, Kimberlin Heights, Union Valley) and they could decide for themselves who gets screwed rather than making South Knoxville suffer for their benefit.

zoomfactor's picture

It did not include an new,

Submitted by zoomfactor on Thu, 2006/12/28 - 1:11am.

It did not include an new, urban-friendly connection to Broadway.

I don't believe that "urban-friendly" and TDOT are compatible in 2006, after witnessing the destruction of urban trees on the I-275 interchanges. After all, it is so important to mimimize having to turn the steering wheel while going the absolute maximum speed to reach the stop sign at the end of the ramp. (Check out how the Dutch approach this problem.)

On a related note, found these gems today on a random CD:

Cedar Bluff interchange in 1965.
West Hills interchange in 1965.
Papermill Road interchange in 1965.

Brian A.'s picture

Wow

Submitted by Brian A. on Thu, 2006/12/28 - 3:47am.

On a related note, found these gems today on a random CD:

No wonder the road system is now inadequate; when it was built, there wasn't any traffic!

Brian A.
I'd rather be cycling.

Up Goose Creek's picture

No Shakey's?

Submitted by Up Goose Creek on Thu, 2006/12/28 - 9:51am.

I remember in the late 60's an excursion to the Big City involved a trip to the ice rink and a visit to Shakey's Pizza on the way home. Shakey's was in the parking lot just west of K-mart. It looks like it hadn't even been built in 1965. And I'd thought it was an ancient institution. I see Fowlers is in place and apparently has it's own on ramp to ease the delivery of furniture in from the far reaching exurbs.

Factchecker's picture

Memories

Submitted by Factchecker on Thu, 2006/12/28 - 11:46am.

Shakey's served horrible pizza. I can almost remember the taste, but have fond memories just for the times. Tandy leather/Radio Shack was next door and still is there, I think. At least the Shack.

We, too, often went to Knox to go to the Ice Chalet. I didn't remember that I-40 stopped at Papermill. Guess West Hills is where we got off. Those photos are really going around the local internets. Somebody printed and posted them on a wall where I work. They're mind-boggling in showing what we've lost forever.

The land between I-640 and the new beltway (ugh!) will convert similarly in a much shorter time. How sustainable can sprawl be? But for companies like Pilot, "your" lottery/beer/smokes/junk food supply network, it's an obvious bonanza.

"This land is your land..." Or not.

smalc's picture

I'm not old enough to

Submitted by smalc on Thu, 2006/12/28 - 3:32pm.

I'm not old enough to remember the interstate ending at Papermill, but I do remember I-40 surface changing from asphalt to concrete at West Hills. We called it the "bumpy road" as kids, due to the construction joints. I think it was that way until the paving frenzy leading up to the 1982 WF.

Brian A.'s picture

Date of pictures?

Submitted by Brian A. on Thu, 2006/12/28 - 4:20pm.

Are those really from 1965? Or even 1960? We moved here in the late 1970s, and it's hard for me to believe those intersections changed that much in 13 years. Or even 18 years.

Brian A.
I'd rather be cycling.

Number9's picture

Are those really from 1965?

Submitted by Number9 on Thu, 2006/12/28 - 4:47pm.

Are those really from 1965? Or even 1960? We moved here in the late 1970s, and it's hard for me to believe those intersections changed that much in 13 years. Or even 18 years.

It did. The area that is now Best Buy and Lowe's used to be a Par 3 Golf Course called the Orange Tee. Before that it was farm land. The entrance was just West of the Mouse's Ear. There used to be an American Legion there which was full service if you know what I mean. You could get anything you wanted...

This was back in the days of the County Court which was the predecessor of County Commission.

That is the way it looked at that time, at least according to my parents who would know. Which brings the question of the wisdom, or lack of, concerning the Thorn Grove community being invaded by the Midway Industrial Park.

There is nothing wrong with growth, but unplanned explosion growth is usually counterproductive. Interestingly there is only one Knox County Commissioner that will even allow a discussion on impact fees and that is Mark Harmon.

smalc's picture

The legislation creating the

Submitted by smalc on Thu, 2006/12/28 - 5:03pm.

The legislation creating the Interstate system was enacted in 1956, TN's first Interstate opened in 1958. So 1960 for those pictures is probably accurate.

smalc's picture

I see Fowlers is in place

Submitted by smalc on Thu, 2006/12/28 - 2:39pm.

I see Fowlers is in place and apparently has it's own on ramp to ease the delivery of furniture in from the far reaching exurbs.

Which Fowlers? Are you talking of the warehouse at Watt Road?

Stan G's picture

Submitted by smalc on Thu,

Submitted by Stan G on Thu, 2006/12/28 - 3:22pm.

Submitted by smalc on Thu, 2006/12/28 - 2:39pm.

Which Fowlers? Are you talking of the warehouse at Watt Road?

I believe the reference is to the Fowers on Kingston Pike near Westown. Enlarging the photo, however, the building is identified as West Hills Lanes.

Interesting markings on the paved area to the left. Anybody recall reading about outerspace aliens being seen near West Hills?

smalc's picture

That looks like a miniature

Submitted by smalc on Thu, 2006/12/28 - 3:26pm.

That looks like a miniature golf course to me???

smalc's picture

Here's a page with a couple

Submitted by smalc on Thu, 2006/12/28 - 2:35pm.

Here's a page with a couple more, along side modern Google aerials. They are labeled there as 1960 though.
(link...)

Number9's picture

Thanks smalc for maybe the

Submitted by Number9 on Thu, 2006/12/28 - 2:42pm.

Thanks smalc for maybe the best post of the year. A picture is worth a thousand words.

So what have we learned in 45 years?

jbr's picture

zoomfactor..I think page 2

Submitted by jbr on Thu, 2006/12/28 - 11:16pm.

zoomfactor..

I think page 2 is particularly interesting....

(link...)

I never see the concept of 'induced traffic' mentioned around Knoxville. Seems particularly relevant.

You might also find this of interest....

(link...)

Thanks

smalc's picture

Woohoo, it's the Insterstate

Submitted by smalc on Thu, 2006/12/28 - 5:25pm.

Woohoo, it's the Insterstate system's golden anniversary!
(link...)
For a few more days at least.
Dang, I have missed all the festivities.

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