Tue
Nov 14 2006
01:57 pm

Yet another employee v. customer incident at McDonald's. Bonus: law enforcement jurisdiction controversy. But again, no gunplay, so there's that.

Number9's picture

What is going at at

What is going at at McDonald's? Are they the new post office?

Bbeanster's picture

Do you know Herb? The

Do you know Herb?
The version I heard was that he got tired of waiting for his food, stormed inside demanding his money back, went behind the counter, ripped an employee schedule down off the wall to scribble on, left the building and then elbowed a 16-year-old employee who was sent out to retrieve the schedule to the ground.

spintrep's picture

ain't buyin two aspects

One: a good lawyer doesn't remove property from an establishment in a situation like this. He knew what he was doing... he wanted names off that employee schedule!!

Two: the 911 voice on the tape picked up on the name right away, you can hear an interesting tone of "understanding" with the caller right away.
Then we have to wonder just how unusual it has to be for whatever level of response this kind of event report is assigned to. I'm thinking the 911 needs to be looked at very closely, as well as the Sheriff's decision.

Remember, H.M. had already left the scene. As I understand, the Sheriff can respond to any incident in the city, but this has to be way beyond any standard ordinarily used, I'd like to see the written policy for stuff like this. Let's hope Herb drags them into this for all it's worth... after all, his "crime" isn't going to get him the same kind of 'hard time' the Sheriff's Dept could be in for.

Bbeanster's picture

What IS "a situation like

What IS "a situation like this"? I'm pretty crabby and mean, and hate to be kept waiting, but I've never been in "a situation like this."
I have been in a fast food drive-through line that isn't moving, and when I am, I leave. Buddy's and KFC are just down the road.

I can't imagine craving a couple of Happy Meals so badly that it'd be worthwhile going inside, yelling and screaming and pounding on the counter, going behind the counter, ripping off the employee schedule and elbowing some kid who works for minimum wage as I'm trying to take off in my Jaguar. Even if I've already paid for the gutbombs, if I'm rich as Herb I'm not going to be real concerned about getting my money refunded.

Herb didn't need to take names or find a number to call or -- everybody in town knows who owns most of the local McDonald's franchises (including that one) -- all he had to do was pick up the phone and call one of the Cochrans.

Listening to the 911 tapes -- both from the witness who thought Herb was an out of control drunk (which I doubt, since stone-cold sober, Herb is perfectly capable of being a raging bully), and the call from Herb himself -- Who calls 911 about bad service at a takeout window? I'm not understanding how you deduce that he's behaving rationally. There's also the response from the sheriff's DUI unit, which was on Chapman Highway and answered the call -- which didn't sound particularly weird, since the witness was claiming Herb was drunk and had driven off in a green Jag.

Ask some judges and court officers about Herb. Read what Judge Weaver said about him in the county charter case; or read Judge Jordan's admonition to him to stop abusing court officers. Check out that picture on the front page of the NS where he's leering into the camera celebrating the dropping of the case against serial killer Zoo Man last week.

Don't think Herb's a victim here -- but he'll still more than likely sue.

redmondkr's picture

I think most of us would

I think most of us would have just made a note of the wait time and made a complaint either by phone or on line; I haven't checked but most national chains have an on line complaint mechanism.  There may have been a perhaps-you-don't-know-who-I-am component involved here.

I would imagine that the next staff meeting at this store will alert employees to be more aware of green Jaguars as opposed to, say, old pickup trucks like mine.


"Where we have strong emotions, we're liable to fool ourselves." - Carl Sagan

 

spintrep's picture

(gilda) *never mind*

Props to Bbeanster above for clarifying more 911 detail, by the limited tv news coverage, i only heard one 911 call.

The "situation like this" is being shortchanged and going in to talk with manager or whatever.

Not sure if it holds as official statement, but I thought he originally said he "didn't know" that it was an employee schedule. (I don't believe it.) I still say he took the schedule for names to assign blame after his tirade, or maybe did it with intentions of intimidating the employees. Not sayin he is sane here, you further commentary is noted.

As to the Sheriffs thing. I'm no fan of TH (or tyler) and did suspect collusion or odd bidding in this incident. Maybe not.
My bigger complaint is that we have two departments in the county, the division of authority and command seems crazier than Herb.

Bbeanster's picture

Hey, I'm not saying that

Hey, I'm not saying that hearing the name "Herb Moncier" didn't pique the deputy's interest. Just saying that he could probably justify going to the scene of the "crime" on the basis of answering a DUI call. And there is a pretty big difference in the way the KPD cop treated the incident and the way the deputy dealt with it. Hell, it's war between Herb and not just Hutchison, but most of the deputies, many of whom have been deposed by Herb at one time or another. They'd probably just as soon arrest Herb as look at him -- just like he's demonstrated his willingness to sue them every chance he gets.

The 911 tape is on the knoxnews website, and is pretty interesting. I really like the way the KNS is putting this supplemental material on the website.

And Rikki, the witness was just a guy stuck in line in front of Herb who felt sorry for the employees. And I have no idea whether Herb got his money back, or why he didn't, if he didn't -- other than to have violated the old adage about how to catch more flies.

Also, the whole thing's on videotape, with multple witnesses inside the restaurant.

rikki's picture

the witness was just a guy

the witness was just a guy stuck in line in front of Herb who felt sorry for the employees.

How could a guy stuck in front of Herb in the drive-through line witness what happened in the restaurant? Or was he standing inside, oblivious to the cars backed up outside, and Herb butted in front of him and pissed him off? Maybe he mistook pissed off for drunk. Maybe the manager and employees were too stupid to apologize for the delay and tried to hide their identity so he'd have a harder time reporting them, so he grabbed the schedule then went for his phone.

Nah, he probably flew in there, a whirlwind of elbows, sputtering, barely agrip of his faculties, seeking brutal vengeance for a lifetime of frustrations. More likely behavior from a lawyer. 

Bbeanster's picture

Rikki, you can bend yourself

Rikki, you can bend yourself into a bowknot trying to rationalize the irrational, but there are numerous witnesses-- both employees and customers -- and a videotape, so suppositions really aren't necessary here, although your suggestion that the employees were trying to "hide their identity" is pretty funny.
The guy in the drivethrough line obviously wasn't a witness to what happened inside, but customers inside were. I mentioned the guy in the takeout line simply because he's the one who called 911. Why did he do that? Because he thought he'd witnessed a crime.
Or maybe this guy, who said he'd gotten stuck in the same situation as Herb did (the slow take-out line) after he'd run down to Mickey D's for a burger while his wife was in labor at Ft. Sanders, is part of the vast sheriffian conspiracy?

Knoxquerious's picture

Super sized

Is there a camera functioning in McNasty's? It probably "isn't working" or "not on at the time" to get the full read on the situation. That would be coincidental...

rikki's picture

left foot, red triangle

you can bend yourself into a bowknot trying to rationalize the irrational, but there are numerous witnesses

You just want the Twister board all to yourself. There is nothing irrational about getting mad and wanting your money back when you pay for something you don't get. I'm yet to hear any account of what the staff did in your narrative, other than haplessly preventing tropical storm Herb's Elbow from gaining hurricane-force winds.

Knoxquerious's picture

I can't understand why there

I can't understand why there is so much speculation as to what actually happened. Where in the hell is the video tape of the incident?

rikki's picture

smokin Herb

So what was the manager doing while all this was going on? Why didn't the restaurant just refund his money? You seem to believe Herb was inconsolably enraged when he entered the restaurant, no match for the helpless staff. Who was this witness you find so credible?

JustJohnny's picture

adding to the humor...

...of all this:

I am fan of McDonald's, just not the one on Cumberland Ave. because just plain sucks. Here is why:

1) Rude staff - when they do speak to you, it is with a tone of contempt.

2) Slow service - a 10 - 15 minute wait in the drive through for breakfast or lunch can be expected. Again, topped off with their service staff acting as if I am interrupting their day.

3) Poor quality - when I ask for no onions of my 2 cheeseburger value meal, that is really what I want. Yes I do it specifically so you'll make me a fresh burger, so what.

4) Indigent population - I have been approached, more than once, asking for money for food by the "kat trolly bums". I always offer to buy a 2 cheeseburger meal (my fav) when I'm asked for cash and not one person has taken me up on it.

5) Location - Unless you are walking, it absolutely sucks trying to get in and out of the Cumberland location.

6) More Rude staff - Don't roll your eyes at more or carry on a conversation with the fry cook when I'm placing my order. How is it people take jobs like this and then act as if they are 'victims' and I'm the 'offender'.

I could keep going. Maybe the new Cumberland Ave. redevelopment crew will red-x the McDonald's OR maybe we can get a mini-McDonald's at the UC. Until then, I'll keep going back --I love that 2 cheeseburger value meal.

R. Neal's picture

So, that 2 Cheeseburger

So, that 2 Cheeseburger Value Meal, you like that do you? :)

SayUncle's picture

A friend of mine was there

A friend of mine was there in the early 1990s when it got robbed. Said robbers wanted the cash from the register which had just been deposited, explained the manager. The manager then suggested that, since the register was short, perhaps the robbers would like the customers' wallets. I shit you not.

---
SayUncle
Can't we all just get a long gun?

R. Neal's picture

Well that was mighty

Well that was mighty generous of him. Where was Lumpy when they needed him!?

Les Jones's picture

"The manager then suggested

"The manager then suggested that, since the register was short, perhaps the robbers would like the customers' wallets."

So it's a Pulp Fiction thing. 

"and then elbowed a 16-year-old employee" 

That must have been honey bunny!

The manager was the manager. So was Herb Ringo, Jules, or Vincent? 

If Lumpy had been there he would have been Mister 9 Millimeter. 


Hey, Les, why don't we just call each other assholes and get it over with. - Somebody on the old Southknoxbubba.net (if that was you, claim your quote and win net.fame!)

Andy Axel's picture

And you...

...must be the Valley of Darkness.

____________________________

You can live a batter life, or a butter life. Or both, if you choose.

Knoxquerious's picture

Pissing Contest Alert! Don't

Pissing Contest Alert!

Don't be alarmed to see another frivolous lawsuit between KCSD and Moncier over this. We as Knox County tax payers should make Timmy and Herb sit in a room with their nose in the corner. That's what my parents did to me and my brothers when we did not get along.

Tiny Tim's picture

Make Timmy and Herb Sit In the Drive Through LIne togather

see which one screams first.

In my opinion, some of the older franchise locations in Knoxville are horrible, sloppy, and a regular creator of stress if you go through the drive through line.

I'm heading to Chick-fil-A, they get it right and they make a drive through a real drive through.

Les Jones's picture

Andy:

You'd like to believe that, but that shit ain't the truth.  


Hey, Les, why don't we just call each other assholes and get it over with. - Somebody on the old Southknoxbubba.net (if that was you, claim your quote and win net.fame!)

james calloway's picture

Man, as someone who has

<
5) Location - Unless you are walking, it absolutely sucks trying to get in and out of the Cumberland location.

>

Man, as someone who has spent theit fair share of time at UT I hope that, if anything, the Cumberland Ave. redevelopment crew makes it a lot less friendly for autos and a little safer for the locals.

Bbeanster's picture

According to TV news, there

According to TV news, there are witnesses who are saying that Moncier was abusive and out of control. Odd that he'd drive across the street and call the cops to complain that he'd been treated rudely in McDonald's after he complained about poor service.

JustJohnny's picture

yeah...

...i'd like to see it two-laned(1 in each direction) + turn lane with limited cross street access. No more than two feeder streets with lights. While we are at it, lets close and greenspace Volunteer blvd.

Stacey's picture

Cumberland McDee's

I agree with Johnny, that McDee's has the staff from hell, extremely slow, pants showing butt cracks etc. Herb is probably somewhat justified. Don't think I've experienced the Alcoa McDee's where another fight occured Sun with two women, one pregnant. Stacey

Number9's picture

What is the point of the

What is the point of the News Sentinel article? It is difficult to tell who they are attempting to skewer.

R. Neal's picture

I think maybe the main point

I think maybe the main point was the ongoing feud between KCSO and Moncier?

Joe P.'s picture

What's In The Food??

Perhaps the high-calorie, cheese and sugar infused foodstuffs (teeny salads notwithstanding) somehow prompt assaults.

zoomfactor's picture

Ominvore's Dilemma

No one should eat this poison. It is not the same as when we were children; it emanates from pure evil now.

Barry's picture

also

Back Yard Burgers has excellent drive-thru service as well. Typically your fewer-location franchises have better overall service and quality as their employee base is less spread out among 25 locations and scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Anonymous's picture

Best Drive Thru Period

Denton's Big Orange Steakery on Kingston Pike.

It takes slightly longer, but they have never screwed up an order that I've placed there.

CathyMcCaughan's picture

McD's on the strip

I once asked for a plain burger and they gave me just a bun.

Children who refuse to play nice can sit alone at the table until they apologize and work out a compromise or they get sent outside until they can act decent enough to come back inside.  Incliment weather preferred.

Lee Greenwood's picture

MODERATOR ALERT!!!

This thread is quickly slipping into another restaurant review like an unnamed restaurant at Turkey Creek. I don't think we can handle another episode like that again.

Carry on.

redmondkr's picture

I don't understand Herb's

I don't understand Herb's impatience.  A twenty minute wait for a gut bomb is nothing compared to the 14 years of litigation, 32 appeals, and 54 days in trial in the Zoo Man case.

I do sometimes think, though, that the local Mickey Dees are competing to see which franchise can abuse the customer the most.


"Where we have strong emotions, we're liable to fool ourselves." - Carl Sagan

 

talidapali's picture

I am actually surprised...

that more incidents like this have not taken place at fast-food restaurants all over Knoxville. And mind you I used to work in one for years and worked my way up to a supervisory position, but I have to say that service levels at most all Knoxville fast-food places are sub-par. The workers are slow, rude, and incompetent. When I go through a drive-thru it should be patently obvious that I do not have a fork if I order a salad, and that a napkin is usually a nice addition to the bag for the customer's convenience, and if fries are ordered salt and ketchup should be a given inclusion, also straws are a must with drink orders and things such as that. And just because someone orders something special or asks for additions or subtractions doesn't mean you get to huff and puff and be rude, sometimes people have a reason for such requests...such as...they might be allergic to an ingredient, or they might just not like it...if you were the customer wouldn't you want your food the way YOU like it? Whatever happened to the customer is always right??? Service industry jobs are good honest work, but if people are treated rudely and get lousy service then why would we spend our hard earned money with your company?

Sorry, just my little rant...I rarely go to fast-food restaurants anymore because i hate to deal with rude personnel and substandard food not to mention that hardly any fast-food restaurants offer vegetarian fare that is decent.

/rant off 

"You can't fix stupid..." Ron White

Factchecker's picture

Golly good!

I admire a good rant like that one, talidapali.  But it's not just for fast food joints.  It's EVERYWHERE!  Incompetence and selfish indifference has become normal order.  Service positions, at least at this low wage/skill scale, fail in providing service.  They're just jobs for people to do the bare minimum to fund their empty lives.  If you ask a question, or make a request for these dolts to deviate at all from their one repetitive skill, they fall apart and become useless.  My wife is so tired of grocery cashiers asking her what simple produce items are.  "Is that a lime?"  "Uh, no.  Avocado."  Then they rough up the bananas.

Modern service workers just don't serve.  They just do a task that a computer can't yet do.  There are exceptions, of course, but why so rare?  I don't know how modern society functions or how productivity is alleged to have kept rising.

/my rant off too

zoomfactor's picture

Spinning the reason he was there in the 1st place...

Another funny thing about this whole incident is how even Herb realized how bad it looked that he was so desperate for a "McNasty" burger - trying to cover it up saying he was buying it for his son. Yeah, right. He was planning to wolf that thing down like nobody's business, as soon as he left the parking lot.

spintrep's picture

Run for the Border

more Secret Sauce of Conspiracy for the encroaching One World Goverment!!

where's the beef beat?

How many departments does it take to grab the extra pickel? With a cop on one side of a suspect and a deputy on the other, which chief gets the pension?

Here we have a criminal pursuit with a suspect fleeing the scene, a potential drunk driver as well... so KPD is similtaneously alerted to this dangerous situation to take action as well? What does their status report look like? Can we view the duplicate paperwork @ $25 dollars a copy?

What if this had been an actual robbery with shootings or whatever, with the perpetrator on the loose striking at multiple locations? So they have protocols. It still comes down to some margin of inefficiency in response and effectiveness in law enforcement when situations become compounded within jurisdiction. We settle for less, but pay more.

Ya know, if we set out just one allotment from ONE BUDGET for operating expenses, salary, and pensions to all the top brass and duplicate staff personel, and told them to split it or work it out, I wonder how quick they'd come to the table to find a solution to this insanity.

somebody call 911.

Rachel's picture

Herb Moncier or Shurf Tim? 

Herb Moncier or Shurf Tim?  Please - no two bigger egos exist in Knox County.

A pox on both their houses.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

TN Progressive

TN Politics

Knox TN Today

Local TV News

News Sentinel

    State News

    Wire Reports

    Lost Medicaid Funding

    To date, the failure to expand Medicaid/TennCare has cost the State of Tennessee ? in lost federal funding. (Source)

    Search and Archives