Mon
Nov 13 2006
05:09 pm
By: R. Neal  shortURL

Wat's wrong with this picture on the front page of WATE's website?

(Full story here, in case there's anyone who hasn't heard it yet.)

105
like
metulj's picture

One sees why they call him

One sees why they call him 'Lumpy.' Did he get a bowl of soup with that suit?

As for your question, he's pointing the weapon at something he does not intend to shoot and it looks like the dumbass has his finger on the trigger. 

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

Number9's picture

Heh, I am not a registered

Heh, I am not a registered gun nut but I will hazard a guess.

My guess is you are referring to Commissioner Lambert's thumb on his left hand. That is called the slide mangler grip.

I am assuming the gun is unloaded and not chambered.

metulj's picture

I can't tell. Does he have

I can't tell. Does he have his finger in front of the guard or are those sausage like digits deceiving me? 

 

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

SayUncle's picture

Hadn't seen the pic. But,

Hadn't seen the pic. But, err, let's see:

1 - all guns are always loaded

2 - Never a point a gun at anything you do not want to destroy (reporter?)

3 - Be sure of your target and what's behind it (camera then reporter)

4 - Keep your booger-hook off the bang switch unless you're ready to shoot.

Pick some.

---
SayUncle
Can't we all just get a long gun?

smalc's picture

1 - all guns are always

1 - all guns are always loaded

2 - Never a point a gun at anything you do not want to destroy (reporter?)

I always like to add something to these two: Unless you have personally verified that it is not loaded. After all, how would disassemble or clean the gun?

SayUncle's picture

Well, that's sort of the

Well, that's sort of the thing about the four rules, a hazardous accidental discharge requires violation of two rules.

BTW, there's always Idiots with Guns for your rules violating needs.

---
SayUncle
Can't we all just get a long gun?

R. Neal's picture

Ding ding ding.(Can't tell

SayUncle:

1 - all guns are always loaded

2 - Never a point a gun at anything you do not want to destroy (reporter?)

3 - Be sure of your target and what's behind it (camera then reporter)

4 - Keep your booger-hook off the bang switch unless you're ready to shoot.

Ding ding ding.

(Can't tell if his finger is on the trigger or not. Probably was, given everything else.)

Even that hippie Metulj gets it. Lots of other good answers too. Even Les's.

At any rate, not the best example for a local elected official or a local TV news station to set. There's enough "posing" and horseplay with guns already.

metulj's picture

I am not anti-gun. I am

I am not anti-gun. I am anti-stupid people with guns. This disqualifies hundreds of millions of Americans including close relatives of mine. My brother shot a pheasant between me and the dog two weekends ago. His punishment was holding the gamebag the rest of the day.  

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

R. Neal's picture

Just yanking your chain! :)

Just yanking your chain! :)

metulj's picture

Don't get in the way of my

Don't get in the way of my wife's pasttime, dude. She's mean as hell. 

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

R. Neal's picture

Just watched the video of

Just watched the video of Lumpy's recounting of the confrontation. Lumpy said he was able to get his gun drawn just as the suspect was drawing his and bringing it around to bear. According to this account, it would seem that Lumpy made a potentially fatal mistake by not firing first when he had the chance to eliminate the threat. Or else something doesn't add up. Either he's a mind reader or he's not fully committed to carrying a gun and using it for self defense. Which might be worse for his own safety and that of bystanders than carrying. On the other hand, defusing the situation without loss of life is commendable, if that's indeed how it happened. Uncle?

SayUncle's picture

campfield says lumpy

campfield says lumpy participates in quickdraw competitions so it's possible that he drew a helluva lot faster.

I think anyone would hesitate before blowing someone away. and i think most folks would draw intent upon stopping the situation by presence of the weapon alone. The police draw weapons without firing quite often.

My guess is something doesn't add up. Lumpy, like most people in high adrenaline situations, may not recall the exact way it went down. Anyone interview the kid?

"Either he's a mind reader or he's not fully committed to carrying a gun and using it for self defense. "

Or he may have noticed the kid was terrified and easy to scare.

---
SayUncle
Can't we all just get a long gun?

tiny tim's picture

This Image Really Sums Up What The Lumpster Is All About

Nice gun, great circumstances, best aim, up for a challenge, . . . . just couldn't pull the trigger.

Let's see if he can nail Team Ragsdale, deliver Tyler Harber to a county commission meeting, target the specific areas of improper conduct and pull the trigger so we can put Rags and his gang into a 4 year lame duck administration.

Factchecker's picture

Nice paneling

Looks like faded walnut.  You think Lumpy's a little high on the formaldehyde?

smalc's picture

I'll take a stab at it, he's

I'll take a stab at it, he's presumably pointing a gun (maybe loaded)at the camera person?

Andy Axel's picture

Is that his office or his

Is that his office or his bedroom in the background?

Wotta friggin' wreck.

____________________________

You can live a batter life, or a butter life. Or both, if you choose.

Scott1202's picture

I don't think that's an

I don't think that's an appropriate picture for the front page of WATE's website, and I'm by no means a "gun nut" (although I do have a permit to carry), but I have to say that I think Lumpy reacted correctly. If someone threatened my life I would also draw down on them.

metulj's picture

Nobody's criticizing him for

Nobody's criticizing him for pulling out his gun on the robber. Actually, his grace afterwards is admirable.* I think what he's doing in that pic is what's the problem.

 

*Newark's mayor has taken two gang members under his wing who were caught spray painting death threats against him. It's good PR to practice forgiveness.  

 

 

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

BlueNeck1's picture

Just looks like bad acting

Just looks like bad acting to me. Do all news outlets stage events - or is just the cheesy ones? Wait - I know, I know. He doesn't have his NRA hat on like the early stories reported. So maybe it's not bad acting - it's just fake.

Andy Axel's picture

MARK IT ZERO!

____________________________

You can live a batter life, or a butter life. Or both, if you choose.

SayUncle's picture

Well, crap, andy, if we

Well, crap, andy, if we always followed the gun safetey rules, we couldn't make movies.

---
SayUncle
Can't we all just get a long gun?

Andy Axel's picture

Well, crap, andy, if we

Well, crap, andy, if we always followed the gun safetey rules, we couldn't make movies.

Duh.

I was just saying that Lumpster looked like a walk-on in a bad remake of The Big Lebowski.

____________________________

You can live a batter life, or a butter life. Or both, if you choose.

Johnny Ringo's picture

Thumb

My guess is the thumb - it should be resting on the left side of the pistol. I don't think you can tell from the pic whether his finger is on the trigger or the triggerguard.

Number9's picture

All kidding aside, that was

All kidding aside, that was a very tough situation and Lumpy Lambert had a cool head and was able to avert a tragic outcome.

Les Jones's picture

Ooh! Ooh! I know! Pick me!

Caliber's too light. It's a .380.

What do I win? 


Hey, Les, why don't we just call each other assholes and get it over with. - Somebody on the old Southknoxbubba.net (if that was you, claim your quote and win net.fame!)

Number9's picture

Caliber's too light. It's a

Caliber's too light. It's a .380.

Such restraint Les. I thought you would also say it is not a wheel gun and not a Smith and Wesson. Is a .380 that much different than you beloved 38 special? Looks like what was needed here was a quick draw more than the caliber.

If you are drawing for speed you can also forgive the left thumb. Better to be alive and have a banged up thumb than the alternative.

Stacey's picture

get a life

So Lumpy defended himself and WATE is still sensationalist, good for both of them! Stacey

Number9's picture

So Lumpy defended himself

So Lumpy defended himself and WATE is still sensationalist, good for both of them! Stacey

You may be psychic. The 6:00 WATE news is all guns all the time. Several back to back gun stories plus a "Six news Investigates".

Only on Six.

P.S. Lumpy did not have his finger on the trigger. Just saw the video.

SteveMule's picture

380

Within its limits the .380 is a fine cartiridge. In Europe the .380 ACP is refered to as the 9mm Kurz. "Kurz" meaning short in German. The .380 is about 3/4 the length of a standard 9mm. At close range it's relelatively equivalent. At anything past, I'd say, about 10 yards you'd be better off throwing rocks. Both the .380 and 9mm are actually 0.355 inches in diameter if you measure them with a micrometer. The .38 Special is longer than both but about the same actual diameter. The 9mm typically has a hotter load than the .38 Special - talking factory ammo here - since the breech is contained in automatics as opposed to wheel guns. All that said it is foolish to be on the wroing side of any of the three.

Take Care, Be Good and don't play in the street!

SteveMule

SayUncle's picture

My Kel-Tec P3AT is 380.

My Kel-Tec P3AT is 380. Those 102 grain Golden Sabers have comparable stopping power (measured in FPS) to a 9mm. Footpounds are probably a bit less due to the 13grain difference in my 9mm load.

---
SayUncle
Can't we all just get a long gun?

Toad In The Hole's picture

Do You Really Wonder Why Businesses Don't Relocate to Knoxville?

Remember these are our elected officials and don't you really wonder what corporate relocation departments really think of Knoxville and our local government. Heck, even the folks in and around the state of Tennessee, particularly Nashville, get a kick out of this one.

"Freeze Gopher"

SayUncle's picture

"Do You Really Wonder Why

"Do You Really Wonder Why Businesses Don't Relocate to Knoxville?"

Yeah, because 'local politico killed in robbery' would have really drawn them in too.

---
SayUncle
Can't we all just get a long gun?

Les Jones's picture

number9:

"Is a .380 that much different than you beloved 38 special?"

Not hugely. I do give the edge to the .38 because of the heavier bullets in the 158 gr LSWCHP (FBI load). The muzzle energy works out to be the same, but the momentum figure is higher for the heavy .38 bullets. And with a .38 if you really need something crazy hot and you don't handload you can use Buffalo Bore brand.

Here are some ballistic gelatin tests of the .38 FBI load, .38 CCI SB (short barrel), and .380 HydraShok. All three rounds penetrate to about the same depth, but while the .380 is expanding to .47 the .38s are blooming out to .60.

Stevemule: didn't know you were one of us. Yeah, the 9 mm is actually better than the .38 ballistically, and compares pretty well to moderate .357 loads in a short barrel. The main advantage in a .38/.357 revolver is being able to use bullets that wouldn't feed reliably in an auto. But I envy the low cost of 9 mm every time I buy ammo, and I'm impressed with its velocity numbers in short barrels.


Hey, Les, why don't we just call each other assholes and get it over with. - Somebody on the old Southknoxbubba.net (if that was you, claim your quote and win net.fame!)

Anonymous's picture

Not hugely. I do give the

Not hugely. I do give the edge to the .38 because of the heavier bullets in the 158 gr LSWCHP (FBI load). The muzzle energy works out to be the same, but the momentum figure is higher for the heavy .38 bullets. And with a .38 if you really need something crazy hot and you don't handload you can use Buffalo Bore brand.

Here are some ballistic gelatin tests of the .38 FBI load, .38 CCI SB (short barrel), and .380 HydraShok. All three rounds penetrate to about the same depth, but while the .380 is expanding to .47 the .38s are blooming out to .60.

For,I hope, obvious reasons, this brought to mind my first visit to a new physician for a routine check up. One of the first questions was, "How's your urine stream?" Got to wonder how Les would respond to the question.

rikki's picture

media reform

I thought the links would be to stories about Lumpy taking the lead on media reform.

R. Neal's picture

Taking the lead or...

Taking the lead or drawing a bead? Heh.

CL's picture

I read somewhere that the

I read somewhere that the camera was operated with a remote control. So while the camera was in front of him, the camera operator wasn't.

R. Neal's picture

Yeah, Instapundit said he

Yeah, Instapundit said he used a Nikon D70 DSLR camera remote control to operate the Canon video camera WATE uses. No, seriously.

Quite possible that the camera operator setup the shot and stepped aside. Who knows? Someone at WATE said they were somewhat taken aback by the image. But they ran it anyway, obviously. If it bleeds it leads! Even if it only has the potential to bleed.

My only question for the camera operator would be whether he would have had to pay for the camera if Lumpy let off a round by accident. One of their guys told me one time that they would get fired if their camera got lost or stolen. Presumably the same would apply if they let some guy named "Lumpy" shoot it.

Les Jones's picture

Just checked out the Nikon remote

on Amazon. Pretty cool, and less than fifteen bucks. I just use the self-timer when I shoot off a tripod because the subjects I shoot aren't time sensitive, but if I had a Nikon I'd buy one of those.

Re: Lumpy's decisions - Whenever I read accounts of people who survived shootings or drawn-gun encounters, I'm very hesitant to criticize them for anything less than gross violations of good sense or the law. He was there, I wasn't, and who's to say I'd have walked away from it as happily and healthily as he did?


Hey, Les, why don't we just call each other assholes and get it over with. - Somebody on the old Southknoxbubba.net (if that was you, claim your quote and win net.fame!)

Number9's picture

Re: Lumpy's decisions -

Re: Lumpy's decisions - Whenever I read accounts of people who survived shootings or drawn-gun encounters, I'm very hesitant to criticize them for anything less than gross violations of good sense or the law. He was there, I wasn't, and who's to say I'd have walked away from it as happily and healthily as he did?

What Les said. No need to armchair quarterback life and death decisions like this one.

Bbeanster's picture

I'm over the Lumpy-bashing.

I'm over the Lumpy-bashing. It's easy to make shitty little comments about his looks, his hobbies, his nickname, what he does for a living, but the fact is Lumpy Lambert is a decent guy who has the guts to be different. That's why I like him. He's got a kind heart and he's brave -- far kinder and braver than most any of the people who are ridiculing him, and I don't just say that because of his OK Corral experience over the weekend. He's been fighting the power, in his own Lumpyesque way, for years. How many of you would've soiled your knickers had you been in his situation Saturday afternoon? What would YOU have done?

Lumpy got snookered by whoever did that Channel 6 story -- he trusted them to be fair and he allowed himself to be talked into re-enacting the attempted hold-up. In return, they ran a still shot that makes him look like a demented freak instead of a victim. Lumpy would be better off if he were a little less trusting, a little less willing to accommodate those who would set him up.

There's hardly anyone with whom I agree about every damn thing, and I certainly have some serious points of disagreement Lumpy. But I can say this without reservation: this town is a more interesting and colorful place because he is here. There's a Randy Newman lyric that always reminded me of my brother John, and of most anybody else I've ever considered worth knowing:

I'm different -- don't care who knows it
Somethin' about me's
Not the same
I'm different and that's how it goes
Ain't gonna play no boss man's game

My brother would've dug Lumpy, and that's good enough for me.

Up Goose Creek's picture

Yes

What Bbeanster said.

I've been uneasy with this pile on merely because Lumpy doesn't fit the image of the Kool Kidz.

I've heard he's quite bright and it's obvious he's willing to speak his mind. Perhaps he can use some lessons in political finesse but those should come quickly.

metulj's picture

OK. I really don't have a

OK. I really don't have a dog in this fight, but my cheap suit comment and "why he is called Lumpy" are mild. Like I said, his grace toward the kid who held him up and his wondering what could have brought the guy to such a position speaks volumes about his person.

Anyhow, most of the criticism is his pointing the gun at the camera. Bad practice.

Anyhow, if you ever meet me you'll wonder why nobody has hung a nickname like Lumpy on me. 

 

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

talidapali's picture

Go Beanster, Go Beanster!

You go girl! Y'all just leave Lumpy alone, he has a right to own a gun and defend himself.

"You can't fix stupid..." Ron White

R. Neal's picture

Darn. I was hoping to draw

Darn. I was hoping to draw the gun fanciers into one of their technical discussions about confrontations and shootouts. They can get quite entertaining.

At any rate, it was questionable for WATE to run that video and put that photo on their website without a disclaimer including SayUncle's four rules and an explanation as to whether the camera was being remotely operated.

SayUncle's picture

Hehe you said draw. It is

Hehe you said draw.

It is entertaining to watch the various debates pan out. I don't even try anymore. No one will ever settle the following debates:

Caliber v. caliber

Isosceles v. weaver

AK v. AR

Glock v. 1911

Hell, glock v. anything

Autoloader v. revolver

I just admit it's preference and move on.

---
SayUncle
Can't we all just get a long gun?

SayUncle's picture

On the plus side for

On the plus side for lumpy:

His grip is firm and square, with this right thumb point forward.

He is leaning forward slightly.

Shoulders and hands square.

Both eyes open.

Safety may be lacking* but his stance is damn good (from what I can see)

* assuming the camera was not remotely operated.

---
SayUncle
Can't we all just get a long gun?

R. Neal's picture

I also give Lumpy credit for

I also give Lumpy credit for giving the guy a discount on the car before he even started negotiating, and for telling him he should have it checked out by his own mechanic because, as Lumpy told him, "we are a reconstructed auto business." Hell, he gave the guy every chance to escape before drawing down on him!

Number9's picture

On the plus side for

On the plus side for lumpy:

His grip is firm and square, with this right thumb point forward.

He is leaning forward slightly.

Shoulders and hands square.

Both eyes open.

Safety may be lacking* but his stance is damn good (from what I can see)

I thought his motion was excellent. In the video you can see his finger is not on the trigger. On a small gun like a Kel-Tec .380 it is difficult to quick-draw and do it as well as he did.

I would bet this will be a Chuck Shepard "News of the Weird" story. I guess the young man did not know what NRA meant.

(link...)

redmondkr's picture

Would you buy a used car

Would you buy a used car from this man?


"Only the pure in heart can make a good soup." - Ludwig van Beethoven

 

SteveMule's picture

Sure!

Sure! I'd buy a used car from him, altho I'd be concerned about late payment fees.

Take Care, Be Good and don't play in the street!

SteveMule

Number9's picture

A footnote to this long

A footnote to this long discussion. I would be remiss not to point out WATE's flawed report from Kristin Farley.

Uncle has a good discussion of the mistakes made and the clarifications. You can find it here.

It is interesting to note that there were six shootings in three days. Had Lumpy Lambert not had a weapon and the training and skills to use that weapon there could have been one more shooting. This was the only story that had a good ending. It was also the only story where a gun was used in self defense.

R. Neal's picture

It is interesting to note

It is interesting to note that there were six shootings in three days. Had Lumpy Lambert not had a weapon and the training and skills to use that weapon there could have been one more shooting. This was the only story that had a good ending. It was also the only story where a gun was used in self defense.

I had noticed all the gunplay in the news, too, but haven't followed all the cases (not something I usually keep track of). There's yet another one in Alcoa from last night (16 yr. old kid found dead today, reports of gunshots around 1 AM last night). But aren't some of these cases still unsolved?

So we don't really know how many were self defense, whether by good guys or bad guys who got themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time for the wrong reasons. Even the bad guys advance a self-defense defense sometimes, and sometimes it works.

But I think everyone agrees that it was a good thing nobody got hurt in the Lumpy episode.

Greg "LUMPY" Lambert's picture

My Responce

Hi this is Greg “LUMPY” Lambert I don’t usually post here but I decided to address some of the issues that have come up. The video clip of me drawing the firearm was staged. My weapon was unloaded and the clip was removed. The reporter asked if I could show her what happened using the gun as a prop, I unloaded the firearm and showed her and the camera man how to determine that a gun is unloaded.

Pointing even unloaded firearms at something you don’t intend to shoot in an unsafe practice and should not be done under normal circumstances, however firearms are often used as props. When using a firearm, as a prop normal safety rules don’t apply, in this situation the gun was unloaded and checked immediately before the footage was taped.

If something ongoing were being produced (like a movie or TV show) an air soft (realistic toy) gun would be used or the weapon would have been permanently modified so that it could not chamber a live round. In the case of a short one-time sequence like the footage for the news story often a real weapon (usually the actual weapon used in the events that are being recreated) are used but it is absolutely essential that the weapon be checked and rechecked to keep accidents from happening.

As for why I did not shoot; I did not have to, I had the drop on him by a half second If he had shot me (and hit me in a vital area, remember he did not appear to be skilled with a firearm and he was armed with a .25 acp) I could have returned fire before his 1st shot hit me (I hope), at that range (about 6 feet max) one shot would have probably stopped him. My gut (and possibly God) told me I could give him a chance to surrender his weapon. I gave him that opportunity and he took it.

Kane Stackhouse (the perpetrator) is not an animal he is a human being, a young scared one at that. It would have been a tragedy if his life (or mine) had been lost. Thankfully this incident ended without bloodshed. Kane Stackhouse is a young man with his whole life ahead of him he is now safely behind bars where he is no longer a threat to himself or others. Whatever demon (probably drugs) brought him to my office I hope and pray he gets the help he needs.

I could spend the rest of my life 2nd guessing what happened, but instead I thank God no one was hurt.

R. Neal's picture

Greg, thanks for posting

Greg/Lumpy, thanks for posting your comments. I think everyone is glad nobody got hurt and it sounds like you showed remarkable restraint, and as it turns out, good judgement.

One question: was the camera operater behind the camera, or standing to the side operating the camera by remote control? Do you think WATE should have run a safety "do not try this at home" disclaimer? (OK, that was two questions.)

Number9's picture

Hi this is Greg “LUMPY”

Hi this is Greg “LUMPY” Lambert I don’t usually post here but I decided to address some of the issues that have come up. The video clip of me drawing the firearm was staged. My weapon was unloaded and the clip was removed. The reporter asked if I could show her what happened using the gun as a prop, I unloaded the firearm and showed her and the camera man how to determine that a gun is unloaded.

I am curious how you feel about the WATE coverage Lumpy. It sounds like you went to great lengths to discuss firearm safety with the WATE news team. Did part of the WATE interview end up on the cutting room floor? Were you surprised with the finished interview?

greg "LUMPY" Lambert's picture

The cameraman was operating

The cameraman was operating the camera; the gun was aimed off to the side of where he was standing (this would have still been improper had the gun not been unloaded and rechecked before shooting the footage). I am ok with the way they ran the footage; it is common for reenactment footage to be aired without a disclaimer as to how the footage was shot accompanying it.

More footage ended up being cut than was used; this is common with news interviews. I think the coverage was somewhat fair the still shot of me pointing the gun was a bit sensational but that is what draws viewers.

SayUncle's picture

Glad no one got hurt, lumpy.

Glad no one got hurt, lumpy. I notice you didn't use the Kel-Tec in the video and was wondering what sort of carry rig you use for it. I have one of their P3ATs as well.

Regards,

---
SayUncle
Can't we all just get a long gun?

Greg "LUMPY" Lambert's picture

I did use the P3AT

I was using the P3AT in the demo, I cary it in my pocket or clipped to my belt with the Kel-Tec belt clip. I also often cary a Kahr K9 in a Galco belt holster. I use to cary a Walther THP in a pocket holster. The Kel-Tec is small and light enough to cary all of the time.

Number9's picture

I thought I saw the Kahr K9

I thought I saw the Kahr K9 in the video. I could be wrong but the gun in the video looked much larger than the Kel-Tec. You thinking the same Uncle?

SayUncle's picture

Cool. Thanks. Watched the

Cool. Thanks. Watched the video again and that is the Kel-Tec. Looked different to me earlier. I could tell it was the Kel-Tec after he placed it to his side.

---
SayUncle
Can't we all just get a long gun?

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