Confused Spectator's picture

Comey tried to change the law today

(link...)

Intent is irrelevant. It is not part of the law. Comey is wrong. Ask David Petraeus.

fischbobber's picture

Intent is not irrelevant.

It doesn't appear the FBI was able to establish an actual breach. This would mean that the case against HRC is extremely weak, and likely overturned even if a witch hunt proved successful.

Confused Spectator's picture

intent does not matter

(link...)

You are mistaken.

fischbobber's picture

In this case......

Intent is written into the law. The fact that no breaches were allowed shows an intent to comply and a de facto compliance of the statute. This bird won't fly with a competent jury. I can promise you Herb Moncier could get her off the hook.

Confused Spectator's picture

Gross negligence cannot

Gross negligence cannot involve intent. Keep up. And it isn't written into the law.

fischbobber's picture

Without a breach, there is no negligence.

There is a vast difference between an error in judgement, and intentionally committing a criminal act. The proof of the information being unsecured would be a breach in the system. They didn't find a breach, hence, you have a highly technical argument that will come back to whether or not there was, in fact, a breach. The underlying assumption would have to be that Clinton was incompetent. That argument would be proven false. Regardless of whether or not she was in technical compliance of a regulation, the fact that there is no breach shows her to be within the boundaries of the intent of the law, if not the letter.

Confused Spectator's picture

Without a breach, there is no negligence.

Missed that one. Even more wrong than your idiotic claim of intent. There a link to the law below. Trying reading it this time.

(link...)

Tamara Shepherd's picture

*

It appears to me that this Item (f) is the applicable text.

Looks like she was "entrusted with" and "(had) lawful possession...of...information" which she treated with "gross negligence" in allowing it "to be removed from its proper place of custody," namely a secure government server.

(f) Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

bizgrrl's picture

Rudy Giuliani words as well.

Rudy Giuliani words as well.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

*

I'm sorry, I didn't catch the reference? Giuliani commented on the need for texts to Clinton's Wall Street speeches or the applicability of this section of the Code I copied to her actions as Sec of State?

In either event, what did he say?

bizgrrl's picture

What you said.

What you said.

fischbobber's picture

The law was written in the 1940s.

It doesn't require the proper place of custody to be a secure government server, as per your definition.

This is not about whether Hillary deviated from standard operating protocol, which let's face it, is what her detractors are insisting this is about. The baseline for all these laws is to stop people from committing acts of treason.

Just because one might have an issue with Clinton's propensity to do things her way, regardless of circumstance, that doesn't make her a treasonist. Unless there is a vast cache of information being withheld, I don't see a conviction coming out of this.

Plus, given the nature of her system upgrades, per the FBI, one could reasonably argue that she was indeed in compliance with the statute. The issue would become whether or not the Secretary of State was high enough up on the food chain to make good faith decisions on her own. Then it becomes her word against anonymous bloggers.

(The rules for sending and receiving classified correspondence are vast. It would be vital to the case to know specifics of any questionable correspondence in order to draw a rational conclusion. I would point out, the public doesn't have those specifics.)

Tamara Shepherd's picture

*

No, Bob. It is not just "my definition" that the "proper place of custody" for classified e-mails is a secure government server. It is the ruling of multiple DOJ actions charging felony violation of this same Federal statute--at least seven of them over the years since Obama took office.

Do take a look at this overview of some of those cases as contained in the letter from the House Judiciary Committee to Comey yesterday. They've called him in. Think I read elsewhere that he's to testify before them tomorrow.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Postscript

I just wrapped up a quick attempt to collect a little more background on these seven cases the DOJ has prosecuted under the Espionage Act during Obama's administration.

It looks like the Nishimura case wasn't the only one involving the defendent storing classified docs on unauthorized computers (absent any intent on the defendent's part to share those docs with unauthorized persons); the White case also centered on this same concern (also absent any intent on the defendent's part to share those docs with unauthorized persons).

These two cases most closely mirror the Clinton circumstances, then, while the other five cases turned on defendents actually sharing classified info in some way with parties to whom it should not have been privy.

See details on Nishimura and White cases here.

Rachel's picture

Intent is an element of just

Intent is an element of just about every crime. No intent, no crime.

This is EXACTLY the result predicted for months. Can we move on now?

Confused Spectator's picture

"Intent is an element of just

"Intent is an element of just about every crime."

It does not pertain to gross negligence. Like Comey, you all are trying to change the law.

Knoxoasis's picture

So on June 30, Loretta Lynch

So on June 30, Loretta Lynch meets with Bill Clinton.

On July 1st, Lynch pledges to follow the recommendations of the FBI on prosecution of the email case.

On July 3, "aides close to Mrs. Clinton" suggest she may keep Loretta Lynch on as AG.

And today there's an announcement that there will be no prosecution.

I'm trying to swallow my cynicism.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

*


I'm trying to swallow my cynicism.

I'm trying to remain patient while I wait for those transcripts of her multiple half-million dollar speeches to Wall Street. It's been fully five months since she first promised voters she'd "look into" it.

As concerning as are these possible breaches of classified information, I worry as much or more that she's made assurances to Wall Street that would bring harm to us, too. And more personally.

Somebody's picture

The thing is...

Even without Bill Clinton's tarmac blunder last week, an FBI conclusion not to recommend charges would have resulted in proclamations that 'the fix is in' anyway.

As with Whitewater and Benghazi, for those who don't like the Clintons, no investigation or finding of fact is believed to be valid, unless it proclaims boldly "they did it!"

As flawed as they may be as human beings, when you consider that quite literally hundreds of millions of dollars have been spent to investigate potential wrongdoing by the Clintons, with nothing of real consequence to show for it. If that much time and money was spent investigating pretty much anyone (much less any politician), who would come out of it any better?

Somebody's picture

I also find it interesting to

I also find it interesting to note that the FBI closely read 30,000 of Hillary Clinton's emails and not only didn't find sufficient evidence to press charges on this specific issue, but also didn't find evidence of any other crime. Comey noted that there was no apparent obstruction of justice, and no apparent intent to withhold any evidence. Less than four tenths of one percent of the emails contained information that Comey says she should have known at the time was inappropriate for transmission through unsecured media. (You want that number to actually be zero, but 4/10 of 1% is pretty close to zero.)

The popular supposition is that Mrs. Clinton is habitually sleazy and crooked, yet the FBI can comb through all of her work email and not turn up anything worth bringing charges?

I wonder if the same thing would result if the FBI combed through four years worth of Donald Trump's email? I bet not.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

*

Ah, but I find it "interesting" to note that the FBI did find sufficient evidence to press charges on this exact same issue WRT Nishimuru and White. Don't you think that a cabinet member should be held to a higher standard than they, not a lower one?

Also, your math as to the percentage of Clinton's e-mails that were classified discounts another "roughly 2,000" Comey says were "up-classified" after the fact, which makes that percentage of classified e-mails around seven percent, not one-half of one percent. This process of "up-classifying" documents after the fact doesn't pose any problem WRT exchanges on secure servers, but it may well pose problems WRT exchanges on one's personal devices.

And I'm sure we agree that Donald Trump isn't a standard bearer for much of anything--but isn't your observation yet another instance of a Clinton supporter arguing only that at least his candidate isn't quite so flawed as Trump? Sounded like it to me...

Somebody's picture

I think you're going to get

I think you're going to get whatever you want out of whatever you read.

fischbobber's picture

Secured servers

It's my understanding that a secured server only sends, it doesn't receive. In other words, there is this inference that the e-mails in question have the distinction of being some sort of totality of her correspondence, yet if on looks at her time of service and even considering the up-grading of the e-mails in question, that could not mathematically be true. Nor would the way events unfolded during her time as Secretary of State suggest that someone had tapped into her e-mails and classified correspondence.

Use your head. Do you think we get Bin Laden if Clinton's classified correspondence is compromised? Do you think we topple Ghadaffi? (Granted, one can argue whether or not that was a good thing)

There is a broad line of thought and consequence that would accompany Clinton's guilt in this matter, and it simply isn't there. Truthfully, we don't even know, at our level, whether or not the "classified" correspondence were deliberate leaks or not.

At Secretary Clinton's level, things are a bit more complex and nuanced than you are allowing.

Somebody's picture

P.S.

Also, your math as to the percentage of Clinton's e-mails that were classified discounts another "roughly 2,000" Comey says were "up-classified" after the fact, which makes that percentage of classified e-mails around seven percent, not one-half of one percent. This process of "up-classifying" documents after the fact doesn't pose any problem WRT exchanges on secure servers, but it may well pose problems WRT exchanges on one's personal devices.

I shouldn't follow up no this, because you won't care, but what the heck.

The Constitution specifically prohibits passage of ex post facto laws and bills of attainder. This means, in effect, you can't 'up-classify' information after the fact and then turn around and prosecute someone for having previously sent that 'up-classified' information by unsecured means. So while 'up-classified' emails are of mild interest, they don't matter here.

Andy Axel's picture

...But

it's somewhat heartwarming to see the Bernie Bullies and the wingnut GOP making common cause, and coming unhinged in harmony.

fischbobber's picture

You're factually wrong.

Sanders said monthes ago this was nothing and most of us has proceeded as such. Don't mistake people motivated by a shared support of Sanders platform and vision and those that simply hate Hillary. Despite the obvious overlap of the groups they're two distinct schools of thought.

Andy Axel's picture

I can factually read

I've observed a certain strain of #NeverHillary dead-enders embracing the same schools of thought as Paul Ryan and his cohort. Not even a gym teacher could get so many kids to dress alike, so to speak.

Roscoe Persimmon's picture

If you've got friends or family that work at Oak Ridge

ask them if intent is required under 18 USC 973, many a good worker, scientist, and lab worker has been lost to this statute without any evidence of intent to remove, duplicate, or copy any of the classified defense department information involved in the situation. Comey's interpretation of the statute creates more questions about the veracity and the integrity of our government than it solves.

Confused Spectator's picture

Comey knows he is wrong

Congress should move on this today. Comey's "interpretation" is a criminal act. And it undermines national security.

Watergate was nothing compared to what happened today.

S Carpenter's picture

Brief historical note

"On the night of March 10, 2004, Comey had learned that Gonzales, then the White House counsel, and Andrew Card, the White House chief of staff, were heading to a Washington hospital, where John Ashcroft, the Attorney General, suffering from gallstone pancreatitis, was in intensive care. Gonzales and Card wanted Ashcroft to reauthorize a government surveillance program that Comey and his staff had concluded was unlawful. Comey and Robert Mueller III, the F.B.I. director, raced, sirens blaring, to beat Gonzales and Card to Ashcroft’s bedside. In a tense confrontation at the hospital, Ashcroft told Gonzales and Card that, since Comey was Acting Attorney General, the decision was his to make."

Remember that? Ok, what were you saying about his integrity?

New Yorker

Confused Spectator's picture

his integrity

His integrity doesn't exist after today. Twelve years ago was then. Today is now.

S Carpenter's picture

Well

... you're the expert. Make your case, explain how they got to him.

Mike Knapp's picture

No doubt

How the hell does this country classify emails anyway? Colin Powell has some experience with that.

Confused Spectator's picture

you mean like this?

(link...)

(link...)

How is this Clinton issue any different? It's not. Comey should be indicted for obstruction of justice. This is not the cover-up of a 'third rate burglary'. Nothing has ever been at this level or corruption.

S Carpenter's picture

The law as if it matters...

Reading this as a layperson, one might think, 'How could it not be negligent to have top-secret material on your personal email account?' Except that this is an espionage statute, not lay language, and this law has been interpreted to have a very specific meaning.

In 1941, the U.S. Supreme Court heard a case which challenged whether the phrase "national defense" in this very espionage law was too vague and over-broad. The answer was no only because:

"We find no uncertainty in this statute which deprives a person of the ability to predetermine whether a contemplated action is criminal under the provisions of this law. The obvious delimiting words in the statute are those requiring intent or reason to believe that the information to be obtained is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation. This requires those prosecuted to have acted in bad faith."

From the ABCnews link posted by SnM

Tamara Shepherd's picture

*

No, that ABC News link SnM posted, which is dated April 2016 but which originally appeared on the author Abram's blog in January 2016, is six months old. Abrams' multiple assumptions back then as to what the investigation's findings would be were disproven by the FBI's Comey yesterday.

Note that Abrams stated Rice and Powell had only received similar e-mails, but apparently hadn't sent them, on their personal servers, while Clinton both received and sent them.

Also note that Abrams stated these e-mails had been deemed classified only after the fact, while some of Clinton's e-mails had been deemed classified at the time she received and sent them (and some were also labeled as such, Comey reported).

Finally note that Abrams concedes Clinton is the only Sec of State never to have used an @state.gov e-mail account at all.

Specifically what Abrams said as to the classification status of certain Clinton e-mails at the time she received or sent them was "none of the info she possessed...had been classified at that time."

What Comey said yesterday of Clinton's e-mail, though, is that "seven e-mail chains...were classisifed at the Top Secret/Special Access Program level when they were sent and received." Comey also noted yesterday that an additional volume of her e-mail was "properly classified as Secret by the U. S. Intelligence Community at the time it was discussed on e-mail." And again, he said some of it was labeled as such.

Abrams appears to contradict himself when he concedes in one breath that WRT 18 U.S.C.A. 793 (f), the felony statute, intent is not addressed in the law's language, then turns right around and argues that this same statute may not be applied to suspects whose intent is not in question.

And furthermore, we know that the felony statute has been applied to suspects whose intent is not in question, in particular to this Bryan Nishimura whom the DOJ successfully prosecuted just a few years back, per Confused Spectator's above link.

And further furthermore, that other link CS offered us, which reminds us that Bill Clinton's CIA Director John M. Deutch was also sucessfully prosecuted (under the misdemeanor statute, apparently, which does require intent?), makes it doubly hard to understand why Hillary Clinton would think this behavior is acceptable.

We can't read selectively all those links above. We have to read all of 'em--and the assumptions Abram made on his blog six months ago were superceded by the FBI's statement yesterday.

Confused Spectator's picture

Clinton broke the law

"Abrams appears to contradict himself when he concedes in one breath that WRT 18 U.S.C.A. 793 (f), the felony statute, intent is not addressed in the law's language, then turns right around and argues that this same statute may not be applied to suspects whose intent is not in question."

Clinton broke the law. Comey tried to change the law on the fly to protect her. Which I think is obstruction of justice. Congress should act to remove Comey. And have Clinton arrested.

The intellectual dishonesty from the talking heads has no parallel. Real names of intelligence operatives were on unsecured Servers. The gross negligence is apparent and abundant.

SnM's picture

ANALYSIS: Sorry, But There

ANALYSIS: Sorry, But There Still Isn't Enough to Prosecute Hillary Clinton
(link...)

Mike Knapp's picture

Perspectives; thankful for Trump's incompetence?

Breakdowns from Ian Milhiser at ThinkProgress.

Setting aside the bare language of the law, there’s also a very important practical reason why officials in Clinton’s position are not typically indicted. The security applied to classified email systems is simply absurd. For this reason, a former CIA general counsel told the Washington Post’s David Ignatius, “’it’s common’ that people end up using unclassified systems to transmit classified information.” “’It’s inevitable, because the classified systems are often cumbersome and lots of people have access to the classified e-mails or cables.’ People who need quick guidance about a sensitive matter often pick up the phone or send a message on an open system. They shouldn’t, but they do.”
Indicting Clinton would require the Justice Department to apply a legal standard that would endanger countless officials throughout the government, and that would make it impossible for many government offices to function effectively.

Glenn Greenwald at the Intercept

Comey also detailed that her key public statements defending her conduct – i.e., she never sent classified information over her personal email account and that she had turned over all “work-related” emails to the State Department – were utterly false; insisted “that any reasonable person in Secretary Clinton’s position . . . should have known that an unclassified system was no place for that conversation”; and argued that she endangered national security because of the possibility “that hostile actors gained access to Secretary Clinton’s personal e-mail account.” Comey also noted that others who have done what Clinton did “are often subject to security or administrative sanctions” – such as demotion, career harm, or loss of security clearance.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Couldn't "function effectively" without private servers? C'mon.

How ThinkProgress sees this:


Indicting Clinton would require the Justice Department to apply a legal standard that would endanger countless officials throughout the government, and that would make it impossible for many government offices to function effectively.

How the FBI sees this:

While not the focus of our investigation, we also developed evidence that the security culture of the State Department in general, and with respect to use of unclassified e-mail systems in particular, was generally lacking in the kind of care for classified information found elsewhere in the government.

With respect to potential computer intrusion by hostile actors, we did not find direct evidence that Secretary Clinton’s personal e-mail domain, in its various configurations since 2009, was successfully hacked. But, given the nature of the system and of the actors potentially involved, we assess that we would be unlikely to see such direct evidence. We do assess that hostile actors gained access to the private commercial e-mail accounts of people with whom Secretary Clinton was in regular contact from her personal account. We also assess that Secretary Clinton’s use of a personal e-mail domain was both known by a large number of people and readily apparent. She also used her personal e-mail extensively while outside the United States, including sending and receiving work-related e-mails in the territory of sophisticated adversaries. Given that combination of factors, we assess it is possible that hostile actors gained access to Secretary Clinton’s personal e-mail account.

I believe someone at ThinkProgress needs to think long and hard about what constitutes "effective" function of the State Department.

Average Guy's picture

The optics

She would have been better served to get a hand-slap. A fine, rebuke, whatever.

The optics of "nothing" is the worst option for her politically.

From the tarmac, to the FBI meeting, to Comey's announcement to the joint rally appearance with the President - the optics and timing are terrible. Innocent or not.

When your highest negatives center around trust, you try to overcome the issue - not solidify it.

fischbobber's picture

Agreed

And frankly, it's on these fronts that losing the enthusiastic support of Sanders followers will hurt her most come fall. Those of us being pushed to the independent status do not tend to lean to the left.

bizgrrl's picture

Attorney General Loretta E.

Attorney General Loretta E. Lynch released the following statement today regarding the State Department email investigation:

“Late this afternoon, I met with FBI Director James Comey and career prosecutors and agents who conducted the investigation of Secretary Hillary Clinton’s use of a personal email system during her time as Secretary of State. I received and accepted their unanimous recommendation that the thorough, year-long investigation be closed and that no charges be brought against any individuals within the scope of the investigation.”

Confused Spectator's picture

Her integrity is the same as Comey's

They should be be charged with obstruction of justice. The cover-up here is much worse than Watergate.

SnM's picture

"The cover-up here is much

"The cover-up here is much worse than Watergate."

You keep saying that.

How was it?

Confused Spectator's picture

just one example

(link...)

The way chain of evidence was handled was without precedent for abuse.

"Why does this matter? Because Clinton signed documents declaring she had turned over all of her work-related emails. We now know that is not true. But even more importantly, the absence of emails raises troubling questions about the nature of the correspondence that might have been deleted."

"Oh but she's better than Trump", tell yourself that when she sells you out. To China, or the Saudi's. Or Wall Street. She will sell you out. She always does.

How pathological does she have to be for your tribalism to be shaken? A much worse crook than Nixon. And much more dangerous to this country.

And like Nixon, it is only a matter of time before the bough breaks. She will be convicted for something some day. The FBI traded its credibility, you will do the same?

SnM's picture

An editor for Breitbart says

An editor for Breitbart says there are gaps in Clinton's email count, which he says reminds him of the missing minutes on Nixon's secret tape recordings, and therefore, Clinton is a worse crook than Nixon?

Where's the beef?

Where are the plumbers? Where are the break-ins? Where're the funds from the Committee to Reelect the President? Where's the Saturday Night Massacre?

Interestingly, "All the President's Men" is on TCM tonight.

(link...)

(link...)

Done.

Rachel's picture

Oh good grief. You clearly

Oh good grief. You clearly were not around in 1972-74.

Dahlia's picture

The whole thing just seems sloppy to me

I'm extremely irritated with Clinton for 1) setting up her own server so she has all control 2) mixing her private and work emails together and 3) not understanding or caring about the repercussions.

It was all stupid and very arrogant. Gawd, this is what irks me about her! Having said that, there were probably all kinds of breaches or wrongdoings by many on those threads of emails who just didn't stop and think. That could be a matter of ignorance, innocence or just plain sloppiness and doesn't show intent. Some of it is just plain age and inexperience with excessive use of email. But being in such a high position, they should know better!

Having said all that, Hillary Clinton is our nominee, and good or bad, she's still much better than Trump, who would be a complete disaster in any kind of security position, Hillary is far from perfect and definitely not my ideal, but I shudder to think what breaches Trump would commit if given the chance. God help us.

Knoxgal's picture

I agree with everything

I agree with everything you said.

Confused Spectator's picture

scope of FBI investigation on Clinton

Is being expanded right now in the Congressional Oversight Committee.

Comey is not doing well. "Did Hillary Clinton lie under oath?" Comey, "to the FBI". Why anyone would risk their career to protect Clinton is puzzling. She can't out run this. With expanded scope, Comey will get sucked in to the cover-up.

jmcnair's picture

You forgot the "not"

You misquoted Comey.

Did Hillary Clinton lie?
To the FBI? We have no basis to conclude she lied to the FBI.

Did Hillary Clinton lie under oath?
Not to the FBI. Not in a case we're working.

Confused Spectator's picture

I missed the ? mark

I left off the ? mark. Unintentional typo.

Where did you get "Not to the FBI. Not in a case we're working." Did Comey actually say that today? How in the hell would he know? They "forgot" to put her under oath.

R. Neal's picture

Bad troll needs better facts.

Bad troll needs better facts.

Confused Spectator's picture

is this better?

"Hillary Clinton gave people without a security clearance access to her private server that contained classified information, FBI director James Comey told a congressional panel on Thursday.

The FBI director said between two and 10 individuals without clearances had access to the server, including Clinton’s attorneys who sorted her emails before they were turned over to the State Department."

So why isn't this intent and actually worse than General Petraeus? He only gave it to one person, she gave it to several, including her attorneys who destroyed work emails, destroyed evidence.

(link...)

jmcnair's picture

Good bye.

You bore me.

Somebody's picture

They "forgot" to put her

They "forgot" to put her under oath.

Keep trying. Comey noted that it's illegal to lie to the FBI. They didn't need to put her under oath.

Confused Spectator's picture

There is no transcript

(link...)

"Yet the revelations will nonetheless raise questions among Republicans, who have been skeptical of the FBI’s investigation and have demanded to see the transcript of the former secretary of State’s interview in downtown Washington on Saturday.

“Well, that’s a problem,” Rep. John Mica (R-Fla.) told Comey when the FBI chief explained the terms of the interview.

"It's pretty clear ... that the American people would like to see what Hillary Clinton said to the FBI," Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) told reporters on Wednesday, a day before Comey’s appearance before House lawmakers.

Under FBI policy — and to the dismay of civil libertarians and staunch transparency advocates — the bureau does not conduct electronic recordings of interviews."

How does that happen?

Hildegard's picture

I don't know why people keep

I don't know why people keep going on about Comey. Of course she wasn't indicted, of course Comey could only report on serious defects in judgment and attention to duty (Clinton's) in the most searing language possible.

And of course that flew right over everybody's heads, esp in the Republican camp. There was a very good analysis of how Republicans missed a golden opportunity to turn Comey's report into a ready made package of attack ads and talking points against Clinton's fitness to hold the office of president. Instead, Trump whines on Twitter and pundits like Glenn Reynolds write sarcastic columns about the FBI. Jesu, folks, the Clintons are making this easy for you, serving up attack stew right to your table, and you can't even smell it because you're too busy making fun of the server.

It's just another example of how the Clintons always land on their feet. They have always counted on their enemies to underestimate their (Clintons') advantages and miss their (Republicans') opportunities. It's how Hillary can and probably will win. A smarter opponent with craftier advisers would be steaming full speed ahead to the White House after this debacle. If Trump really does win, it won't be because he or the party did anything right.

Confused Spectator's picture

are you watching the Congressional Oversight Committee now?

"I don't know why people keep going on about Comey."

Comey is committing perjury right now. He is sinking Clinton too.

Hildegard's picture

In other words, the sideshow

In other words, the sideshow continues.

Confused Spectator's picture

Congressional Oversight Committee

Which sideshow?

(link...)

"Hillary Clinton was not put under oath and there is no transcript of her interview with the FBI, Director James Comey told Congress on Thursday.
Mr. Comey said it’s still a crime if she lied to his agents — though he said he doesn’t believe that happened."

Tribalists, will you choose to throw away your integrity like Comey has?

It's time for Biden or someone else. Or this Democratic party no longer exists.

fischbobber's picture

Good analysis.

+1

bizgrrl's picture

Comry said today, "there are

Comey said today, "there are all kinds of folks watching this at home are being told well lots of other cases were prosecuted and she wasn't. I want them to know that's not true."

Rachel's picture

Rs continuing to

Rs continuing to "investigate" (i.e. cry "wah wah" because they didn't get the answer they wanted) may excite the base but it will make independents/undecideds roll their eyes and say "THAT again?"

Okay with me, tho - go ahead and overreach. I sincerely hope they call Hillary in for another 11 hours of testimony so she can hand them their genitals again.

As for House Rs impugning the integrity of James Comey, THAT is not only overreach, it's a big mistake. Comey is well-respected on both sides of the aisle.

Confused Spectator's picture

big mistake?

The big mistake was when the FBI did not put Clinton under oath. How does that happen?

Tamara Shepherd's picture

*

USA Today (9:45 pm): State Department reopens Clinton emails probe

The U.S. State Department is reopening an internal investigation of possible mishandling of classified information by Hillary Clinton and top aides.

...

(Department spokesman John) Kirby told the Associated Press that former officials can still face “administrative sanctions.” The most serious is loss of security clearances, which could complicate Clinton’s naming of a national security team if she becomes president.

Beyond Clinton, the probe is most likely examining confidants Cheryl Mills, Jake Sullivan and Huma Abedin, AP reported. Abedin wrote many of the emails that the various investigations have focused on, AP noted. Mills, Clinton's chief of staff at the State Department, has been viewed as a possibility for the same job in the White House. There is speculation that Sullivan, Clinton's former policy chief, could be national security adviser.

SnM's picture

Hillary Clinton's sloppy,

Hillary Clinton's sloppy, arrogant, cavalier and shockingly ignorant treatment of confidential information deserves a good, honest, impartial, thorough latest GOP investigation into the latest unveiling of the rabbit hole out of which will pop Vince Foster's body with attached a Hillary-written confession to either killing him or driving him to suicide (taster's choice), all of the Whitewater records that prove she was behind the scheme to bilk everyone in the world of everything (and how she almost succeeded!), photographs of her lesbian college affairs (interracial and with men too!), the white papers on her failed attempt to force Muricuh into socialism through healthcare, the dress she gave Monica to wear to get semen on it in order to divorce Bill and marry her interracial lesbian male lover while spitting on the grave of BENGHAZI ambassador Stevens, and getting millions in donations from those who flew the jets on 9/11 also while casually betraying Muricawatsis to foreign interests with Bill because, well, you know, COS. Just because. Or something.

Because, for 25 years, the Clintons have been selling out this country. They have, in fact, sold the USA's nuclear arsenal code to Kim Jong Il simply to find out how he got Trump to praise him. Because they are so desperate, after killing everyone they know, lying about everything they know, selling everything they think they know, they have nothing to do except to ape Trump, who is a pillar of truth, modesty, restraint and everything that is HUGE.

OR Hillary Clinton's sloppy, arrogant, cavalier and shockingly ignorant treatment of confidential information deserves a significant rebuke. Which Director Comey delivered.

It's a sad, pathetic, tiny universe in which Americans live. And they think it's the world.

Good luck to you.

Rachel's picture

This. ^^^

This. ^^^

Bbeanster's picture

Well said, McNutt.And

Well said, McNutt.
And Tamara? How long can you go on and on and on and on and on and on? To what end?

Tamara Shepherd's picture

*

It does appear that we won't agree. I ask you and others here to recognize that I have not and would not drag into this conversation anything related to former Dem candidate Bernie Sanders nor have I or would I care to make any comparisons between Clinton's infractions WRT her e-mail practices and Nixon's infractions WRT the Watergate break-in.

What I have been trying to examine--and I'm the only person in this converation who has been--is whether the FBI's/DOJ's response to Clinton's infractions appears to be in keeping with their response to the seemingly identical infractions of others before her.

As I shared yesterday, among the seven cases the DOJ has prosecuted during Obama's administration and which were cited in the House Judiciary Committee's letter to Comey that I linked, it appears that five of those cases involved suspects who actually shared classified information with bloggers, reporters, and biographers not authorized to have it.

Obviously, Clinton did not share classified information with those sorts of people. She did, however, allow access to the information to two to ten parties lacking any security clearance who serviced her devices while she was Sec of State. She also allowed access to classified information to an unknown number of attorneys lacking any security clearance who "scrubbed" 31,000 e-mails from her devices ("several thousand" worked-related ones later recovered by the FBI, Comey said), this latter incident in response to the FBI's request for her records.

To the extent that this parallel may be made between what the five prosecuted did in the way of sharing info with unauthorized persons and what Clinton did in the way of sharing info with unauthorized persons, it does not seem inappropriate to make a careful comparison of the particulars between the cases.

Even if we should find no valid comparsion exists between Clinton's case and any of these five others, though, there remains this question of why the DOJ prosecuted the other two of the seven cases, namely the cases of Bryan Nishimura (2015) and Chief Petty Officer Lyle White (2014).

As I also shared yesterday, Nishimura's case, which is being fairly widely discussed among media, wasn't the only one involving the defendent storing classified docs on unauthorized computers (absent any intent on the defendent's part to share those docs with unauthorized persons); the less-discussed case of White also centered on this same concern (also absent any intent on the defendent's part to share those docs with unauthorized persons). Both parties were found guilty and fined and/or stripped of security clearances.

It is especially egregious that neither Dems in the House nor posters in this conversation have offered any explanation or retort as to why the FBI's/DOJ's discrepant response in these two cases.

It will be more egregious still if, per the apparent prediction of media reports last night, the Dept of State should resume its internal investifation of Clinton's underlings and render discipline to them but not to her.

So these are the reasons I go "on and on." For these reasons, and because similar situations will almost certainly arise in the future, whomever wins this election.

bizgrrl's picture

As I posted previously, Comey

As I posted previously,

Comey said today, "there are all kinds of folks watching this at home are being told well lots of other cases were prosecuted and she wasn't. I want them to know that's not true."

Maybe the public doesn't have all of the details, which could easily be considering the issues at hand .

Tamara Shepherd's picture

*

I saw that you shared that yesterday, Biz, but Comey didn't support that blanket assertion with any details of the sort I'm seeking (and that I think all of us should be seeking).

What is the distinction to be made between how the Clinton matter has been handled in 2016 and how the Nishimura and White matters were handled in 2015 and 2014? No one here has answered me that and it wasn't a rhetorical question.

And now, should we be content if and when Clinton's underlings in the State Department are stripped of their security clearances over this, when she has not been?

Or alternatively, should we be content if and when neither Clinton nor her underlings are stripped of their security clearances, since that would mean no consequences for any of them?

One of these two conundrums will most certainly arise--and for the express reason that Clinton has not suffered any consequences. What to do?

bizgrrl's picture

Doubt anyone here can answer

Doubt anyone here can answer those questions. Doubt the FBI or whoever won't share any details with you.

fischbobber's picture

The devil is in the details.

From what we know via the "mainstream media" about these cases there are several clear distinctions.

First and foremost is that in the Nishimura and White cases they were operating under superior's orders and protocol in the Department of Defense. In Clinton's case she is the superior in charge of determining protocol in the Department of State.

The second distinction would be in the nature of the materials concerned. It is currently being reported that the two biggest items found in Clinton's servers were e-mails concerning the times of two upcoming meetings. Both military personel were in hard copy possession of plans/blueprints whose value was not subject to change relative to the immediate passing of time.

Nishimura and White were military and subject to military as well as civilian law. Clinton is a civilian.

The biggest distinction is whether or not the parties were following orders or giving orders. Comey made his point that, "We don't operate like that" as it related to Clinton's servers, yet, she was denied a secure phone when she requested it upon becoming Secretary of State. She had to do her job and she wasn't known for letting people stand in her way. Had someone not been messing with her to begin with and had her communication systems been handled properly by the folks that should have taken initiative to begin with, this situation would likely not have occured.

Based on what I know about how D.C. works (several relatives have or had clearances) it is a fair assumption that some of the nit-picky issues Clinton had with underlings were probably the subject of gossip in and around Capitol Hill and my guess is that Sanders stayed away from the issue because he thought Clinton was probably getting a raw deal. I suspect she was. She had a job to do, and, while I don't agree with everything she did, she was certainly competent as she showed by the fact that even her so-called unsecured servers were as far as anyone can figure, secure.

The standard of whether or not Clinton is being treated fairly is not to compare her to enlisted men and their protocol, but to compare her to other Secratarys of State and Cabinet members.

Confused Spectator's picture

not the first time Comey has been soft on Clintons

(link...)!

In 2004, Comey, then serving as a deputy attorney general in the Justice Department, apparently limited the scope of the criminal investigation of Sandy Berger, which left out former Clinton administration officials who may have coordinated with Berger in his removal and destruction of classified records from the National Archives. The documents were relevant to accusations that the Clinton administration was negligent in the build-up to the 9/11 terrorist attack.

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