"Unspeakable tragedy"

Tue

Dec 2 2014

06:57 pm

By: R. Neal

Two children, one adult killed in Knox Co. school bus crash. The buses were from Chilhowee Intermediate and Sunnyview. Local coverage:

WATE: 2 children, 1 adult killed in East Knoxville crash involving 2 school buses

WBIR: 2 kids, 1 adult killed in accident involving 2 Knox Co. buses

WVLT: Three dead in double school bus crash on Asheville Highway

KNS: Two children, one adult killed and 20 hurt in crash between two school buses

Knox Co. Schools superintendent Dr. Jim McIntrye: "This is an unspeakable tragedy."

Knox Co. Mayor Tim Burchett: "This is an absolute tragedy, and there can’t be anything harder than losing a child. My prayers are with all of the students and families involved, and I ask the community to pray for God to surround them with His peace."

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Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Tue, 2014/12/02 - 7:14pm.

The last time I attended a funeral for a child--a two year-old--nearly 3000 people converged on a small country church to offer our condolences. Visitation scheduled to end at 8pm ran until 10 pm.

None of us knows what to say, but all of us ache for the families.

So very sorry.

Bless the children.

Submitted by bizgrrl on Tue, 2014/12/02 - 7:18pm.

Bless the children.

Terrible news

Submitted by Mike Knapp on Tue, 2014/12/02 - 7:25pm.

Tears and a sunken heart. Prayers for the lost ones, their families, friends and their teachers.

Prayers sent, not a good day in Knox County

Submitted by Roscoe Persimmon (not verified) on Tue, 2014/12/02 - 7:31pm.

Below the constant and visceral debate regarding test scores, curriculum, teacher salaries, student progress, mainstreaming, federal state management of education, the safe travel of children to and from school along with safety and security of children at school are some of the basic elements of any elementary educational system.

Concerns and thoughts abound for those families which lost children and an aide today, those who suffered injuries and trauma today, and those who will have to explain to their children how and why it happened with the reassurances it won't happen again tomorrow.

Just want to get to school

Submitted by TNchickadee on Wed, 2014/12/03 - 8:14am.

Just want to get to school and hug all my babies today.

Making David Rausch police

Submitted by Bbeanster on Wed, 2014/12/03 - 9:02am.

Making David Rausch police chief is the smartest thing Bill Haslam ever did.

Why?

Submitted by Hildegard on Wed, 2014/12/03 - 10:28am.
(in reply to Bbeanster)

Why?

Raush

Submitted by Tess on Wed, 2014/12/03 - 11:21am.
(in reply to Hildegard)

I thought Raush's handling of the press conference after the accident was first rate. Can't say the same for the superintendent.

Can't say the same for the

Submitted by Rachel on Wed, 2014/12/03 - 1:39pm.
(in reply to Tess)

Can't say the same for the superintendent.

Okay, posting this is breaking my rule, but honestly, can't we all just shut up about McIntyre for one damn second in the middle of this tragedy?

It was obvious to me that he was deeply moved by what happened yesterday. He may have expressed it differently than Chief Rausch, but it was there for anybody who was looking.

Disagree with the man's policies all you want, but for god's sake, at this moment, please have enough class to grant him simple humanity.

I think McIntyre was sincere

Submitted by KC on Wed, 2014/12/03 - 10:39pm.
(in reply to Rachel)

I think McIntyre was sincere in his comments and emotions. This accident could very well have nothing to do with the administration of KCS.

Why? Because he's superior to

Submitted by Bbeanster on Wed, 2014/12/03 - 11:27am.
(in reply to Hildegard)

Why?

Because he's superior to any of the other police chiefs I've known, and I go back to Bob Marshall. I believe he and fire chief Stan Sharp were excellent hires and have worked to professionalize their departments. He's smart and well-educated (a real master's degree; not one of those Tusculum/ETSU mail order criminal justice deals); he's a six-year military veteran who came here from Louisville, went through the academy and was assigned to some of the toughest beats in the city as he worked his way up through the ranks. He was not a pencil jockey or a political shill.

A friend of his told me that Rausch acquired the nickname "Longhead" early in his career after he was surrounded by a bunch of hostile people while attempting to make an arrest in College Homes. One of them said "Lets kill this longhead motherfucker." He racked his shotgun, put it in the guy's face and said "Too bad you won't be here to see it." it was all on radio traffic, and nobody messed with Longhead much after that (that's why I disagree with the description of him as a Boy Scout). He's tough as a boot.

The cops I know (or used to know – I'm not around them so much anymore, although I still have some guys I can talk to) speak pretty highly of him, even off the record. Yesterday he was on the scene of the Ferguson protest and at the bus wreck on Asheville Highway, as he should have been. We've had chiefs who were frequently indisposed. Rausch is not one of them. He has rarely put a foot wrong.

Daniel Brown

Submitted by Somebody on Wed, 2014/12/03 - 12:04pm.
(in reply to Bbeanster)

Small point of clarification: I think Rausch was originally appointed Chief by Mayor Brown, not Haslam.

Rausch

Submitted by Knox6-6 (not verified) on Wed, 2014/12/03 - 3:06pm.
(in reply to Bbeanster)

I hope you publish these well-informed observations as a column. I'd heard good things about Rausch but you have the tenure and sources to back it up. He was impressive yesterday, a top cop with real compassion.

Dang! Sorry, Dan Brown!!!

Submitted by Bbeanster on Wed, 2014/12/03 - 12:17pm.

Dang!
Sorry, Dan Brown!!!

But really, I shouldn't have

Submitted by Bbeanster on Wed, 2014/12/03 - 12:28pm.

But really,
I shouldn't have hijacked this thread. I just saw a picture of a little girl who died in that wreck. She was smart and beautiful and now she's gone. it's so hard to think about.

Apologies for the tangent.

I think it's ok.

Submitted by Somebody on Wed, 2014/12/03 - 12:44pm.
(in reply to Bbeanster)

It's worth making note when a public figure responds to something like this with a little humanity.

One news report said Rausch

Submitted by R. Neal on Wed, 2014/12/03 - 1:38pm.

One news report said Rausch notified relatives of one of the victims at the scene. They said he was visibly shaken. Tough job.

Mayor Rogero's statement...

Submitted by R. Neal on Wed, 2014/12/03 - 5:51pm.

Mayor Rogero's statement...

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Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Wed, 2014/12/03 - 9:03pm.

On the sidebar, WVLT reports the identities of those killed in yesterday's accident and announces two area candlelight vigils. I note even the adult, Kim Riddle, was a young married woman.

Also, friends of the two families to have lost children are collecting donations.

To donate to the family of Zykia Burns, age 6--

A friend and former co-worker of Zykia's mom explains that Zykia was a twin and leaves behind her young brother. In more sadness, Zykia's mom had recently been informed that her job will be terminated at the end of December. This friend has established an account for Zykia's family at gofundme.com, where I note that many of us are offering as little as $5 or $10 in help, which is adding up.

To donate to the family of Seraya Glasper, age 7--

Seraya's family and friends ask that any donations be placed in Seraya's own account with TVA Credit Union, which has branches at these locations:

Alcoa Branch
1113 Hunter's Crossing
Alcoa, TN 37701
865-544-5400

Turkey Creek Branch
11490 Parkside Drive
Farragut, TN 37934
865-544-5400

Roane County Branch
1916 Roane State Highway
Harriman, TN 37748
865-544-5400

Jefferson City Branch
662 E Broadway Blvd
Jefferson City, TN 37760
865-544-5400

Johnson City Branch
2004 N. Roan Street
Johnson City, TN 37601
423-794-5100

Kingsport Branch
2518 E Stone Drive
Kingsport, TN 37660
423-246-7511

West Knoxville Branch
102 N. Seven Oaks Drive
Knoxville, TN 37922
865-544-5400

Northeast Knoxville Branch
4520 Greenway Drive
Knoxville, TN 37918
865-544-5400

Downtown Knoxville Branch
301 Wall Ave
Knoxville, TN 37902
865-544-5400

South Knoxville Branch
7210 Chapman Hwy
Knoxville, TN 37920
865-544-5400

Halls Branch
7459 Mayndardville Hwy
Knoxville, TN 37938
865-544-5400

Lovell Heights
(Drive-Thru Only)
10460 Kingston Pike
Knoxville, TN 37922
865-544-5400

North Knoxville Branch
1316 Wilson Rd
Knoxville, TN 37912
865-544-5400

Bearden Branch
4611 Kingston Pike
Knoxville, TN 37919
865-544-5400

Holston Branch
4118 Asheville Hwy
Knoxville, TN 37914
865-544-5400

Lenoir City Branch
455 Market Drive
Lenoir City, TN 37771
865-544-5400

Morristown East Branch
This branch is currently getting a new roof. Please pardon the mess.
3101 Millers Point Dr.
Morristown, TN 37816
423-581-0981

Morristown West Branch
3955 W Andrew Johnson Hwy
Morristown, TN 37814
423-581-0981

Sevierville Branch
1037 Middlecreek Rd
Sevierville, TN 37862
865-544-5400

Also Kimberly Riddle

Submitted by glostik on Thu, 2014/12/04 - 1:39am.

As someone who couldn't have survived my job the last 27 years without great teaching assistants (who make very little money), I would also ask for donations for Kimberly Riddle, the TA who loved her job and the children.

(link...)

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Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Thu, 2014/12/04 - 1:58am.
(in reply to glostik)

I'm glad you found this link, Gloria. It wasn't at WVLT's site earlier, with those instructions for how to donate to the deceased children's families.

On the 11 o'clock news, they said Kim's husband will be raising their two young children alone.

School bus seat belts

Submitted by jfried447 on Thu, 2014/12/04 - 11:20am.

So glad to see Rep. Joe Armstrong drafting legislation for seat belts on school buses. That was my immediate thought after the tragedy, wondering whether those lives would have been saved if there had been seat belts.

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Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Thu, 2014/12/04 - 12:19pm.
(in reply to jfried447)

...wondering whether those lives would have been saved if there had been seat belts.

It sure does appear that lives would have been saved, doesn't it, what with the bus on its side?

I've never understood why school busses don't have seat belts. Attention to the problem is long, long overdue.

seat belts

Submitted by michael kaplan on Thu, 2014/12/04 - 12:26pm.
(in reply to Tamara Shepherd)

(link...)

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Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Thu, 2014/12/04 - 9:37pm.
(in reply to michael kaplan)

Thanks, Michael. You taught me some things I didn't know on this subject.

I do get what the NHTSA is saying about how school buses are better "compartmentalized" than they used to be. If you haven't been on one since your own youth, they're referring to their being constructed with much higher backs on their seats (and with their seats being positioned closer together, too) than the busses we rode as kids. I noticed this when I first began chaperoning school field trips and such with my own kids--although I didn't understand that it was a feature that had improved safety.

I was also surprised (pleasantly) to learn how few kids die on school busses nationally each year, on average. NHTSA says just six? That's pretty amazing, relative to the volume of deaths annually in passenger cars.

Well, one child dead is too many--and I certainly don't want to make light of that in this thread--but NHTSA's recommendation to focus efforts (and costs) on reducing deaths relating to boarding/disembarking busses, where more deaths occur, makes sense to me.

School buses don't have seatbelts, because...

Submitted by Min on Fri, 2014/12/05 - 3:49am.
(in reply to Tamara Shepherd)

(a) school buses are built for safety at prescribed speeds, and
(b) seatbelts trap panicking children in a bus that may be on fire or sinking or undergoing some other crisis situation.

?

Submitted by Tess on Fri, 2014/12/05 - 8:05am.
(in reply to Min)

Couldn't the same be said of car seat belts? They could trap you, etc.? I think there are good arguments for seat belts on buses, not only for safety, but including suppressing the rough housing that sometimes happens on the buses that distracts the driver.

The difference between cars and school buses

Submitted by Nelle on Fri, 2014/12/05 - 11:15am.
(in reply to Tess)

I appreciate your comments, Tess. Seat belts on school buses do seem like common sense.

But school bus experts I've talked to tell me otherwise. They've told me that a fire can spread very quickly through a school bus. If, God forbid, a school bus were to flip over and catch on fire, children in seat belts would have to be cut loose before they could escape the fire. That would take a long time.

Between that scenario, and the recommendations from NHTSA, I'm willing to believe that seat belts can do more harm than good.

Despite this week's tragedy, we need to remember that school bus transportation is very safe. If we're going to work on policy changes around school transportation, I think our efforts are better spent elsewhere. Getting kids safely on and off of buses is one area, and making it safer for kids to walk and bike to school is another.

Fire

Submitted by Hildegard on Fri, 2014/12/05 - 1:13pm.
(in reply to Nelle)

That is exactly what I was thinking. Searching Google images of school bus crashes yields a lot of scorched wreckage. Imagine a six-year-old trying to unhook a seat belt with a fire spreading in one of those tinder boxes.

Special Case

Submitted by reform4 on Sat, 2014/12/06 - 11:00pm.
(in reply to Hildegard)

In the case of the Knoxville wreck, the bus flipped on its side. School bus accidents don't usually involve flips or turnovers. That probably resulted the fatal head injuries, would be my guess.

Yes, one has to play the numbers and consider likely scenarios. A fire (and maybe a sinking.. maybe) is much more likely than a flip for a school bus.

Yep. The main reason school

Submitted by Hayduke on Mon, 2014/12/08 - 12:48pm.
(in reply to reform4)

Yep. The main reason school bus fatalities are so low is that the bus is normally the great big thing in the accident. It would have to get hit by something the size of a school bus to knock it over. Tragic when it happens, but also freakishly rare.

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Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Fri, 2014/12/05 - 5:32pm.
(in reply to Tess)

You saw me do a complete 180 on my position, of course, on reading that NHTSA report. The lack of seat belts has always seemed reckless to me, but I now have some new info as to why it's not.

And Nelle's and Hilde's comments on what a difficult time a child would have unbuckling in a fire or some other emergency particularly resonates with me.

They made me recall one of my ongoing volunteer duties, back when my kids were young, which was to work as a cafeteria aid helping over 300 kindergarten and first grade kids open their milk cartons every day. Seriously. It took a couple of hours daily.

Thinking about the issue that way, I know full well younger kids' dexterity wouldn't be improved in a setting that was scaring them half to death.

KNS reports that Rep. Joe

Submitted by R. Neal on Thu, 2014/12/04 - 12:43pm.

KNS reports that Rep. Joe Armstrong will introduce a bill requiring seat belts on all school buses purchased after July 1st and all school buses by 2023. Armstrong says he knows the families of all three victims. According to the article, a similar bill was proposed most recently in 2007 but didn't pass. It was proposed by now speaker Beth Harwell, who apparently supports the measure.

KNS: Push for school bus seat belts begins after fatal crash

Bad move. He should look at

Submitted by Hayduke on Thu, 2014/12/04 - 7:09pm.
(in reply to R. Neal)

Bad move. He should look at the NHTSA data michael kaplan linked to:

NHTSA’s 2002 Report to Congress[1] found that the addition of lap belts did not improve occupant protection for the severe frontal impacts that were studied for that report.

The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) and the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) have come to similar conclusions. The NTSB concluded in a 1987 study of school bus crashes that most fatalities and injuries occurred because the occupant seating positions were in direct line with the crash forces.[2 NTSB stated that seat belts would not have prevented most of the serious injuries and fatalities from occurring in school bus crashes. In 1989, the NAS completed a study of ways to improve school bus safety and concluded that the overall potential benefits of requiring seat belts on large school buses were insufficient to justify a Federal mandate for installation.[3] NAS also stated that the funds used to purchase and maintain seat belts might be better spent on other school bus safety programs and devices that could save more lives and reduce more injuries.

If it would have helped in

Submitted by KC on Fri, 2014/12/05 - 8:33am.

If it would have helped in this situation, it's relevant. But in this case driver restrictions or screening may have made a difference. The evidence, so far, almost makes it sound like a medical issue for one of the drivers.

Ask a teacher

Submitted by Bad Paper Original (not verified) on Fri, 2014/12/05 - 2:33pm.

I'm not a teacher. But teachers tell me that having safety belts provides a real problem on school buses in that it is possible to have them become something to hit other kids with. Creating a poor safety environment and a distraction for the bus driver. Amazing the things that teachers know.

thinking about school bus

Submitted by michael kaplan on Fri, 2014/12/05 - 2:59pm.

thinking about school bus accidents reported in the media, i've seen the buses either flipped over or on their side. from what i read, most of the safety design protects the bus from head-on or rear-end rather than side collisions.

i'm also wondering why school buses are built on truck chassis.

and has it been determined why the driver of the first bus made a sudden left turn?

Medical issues

Submitted by fischbobber on Fri, 2014/12/05 - 5:15pm.

I'm with KC on this one. This accident would appear to be related more to the state's healthcare policy than poor bus design. Controlling an ongoing condition long enough to pass a physical is not near as expensive or time consuming as treating that condition on an ongoing basis. There's a lot of nod, nod, wink, wink going on.

It's awful early to pass judgement without a lot more facts though. We should figure out the problem before proposing solutions.

One of the kids told KNS that

Submitted by Pam Strickland on Fri, 2014/12/05 - 6:07pm.

One of the kids told KNS that the driver was swerving to avoid a slow moving car. But I'm with KO. that it really sounds like a medical issue, which may or may not have been caught in screening.

Having been a bus monitor

Submitted by TNchickadee on Sat, 2014/12/06 - 7:33am.

Having been a bus monitor after school for several years, I can tell you that seatbelts would do way more harm than good. They would only help if used correctly, but I suspect many of the kids would not keep them on because they are too busy trying to run around on the bus.They would almost certainly become a weapon for some. Knox County would be better off having the officer that comes to do safety lessons with the kids teach about bus safety and how important it is to stay seated properly so the seat could protect them in the event of a crash. I also think a zero tolerance policy for bus behavior would help.Most people have no idea what actually goes on while the driver is trying to concentrate on the road...hence the need for teachers like me to ride the bus at $10 a route. After witnessing the bus behavior of even elementary kids, it is amazing to me we haven't had more bus wrecks. In short, seatbelts may only help with safety if all the students wore them correctly.

WUOT's Brandon Hollingsworth had a good report and interview

Submitted by Mike Knapp on Sun, 2014/12/07 - 9:16am.

School Bus Safety: Are Seat Belts The Answer? Interview audio at link

Dr. Stephen Richards of the Southeast Transportation Center talks with WUOT All Things Considered host Brandon Hollingsworth about school bus safety, which he says begins with the design.

Compliance is an issue, money could be spent elsewhere etc

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