Wed
Aug 16 2006
10:07 pm

We got our first taste tonight of Fleming's Steak House, and our last.

The food was acceptable, but not great. Service was slow and inattentive. The dining area is one big room that's excessively noisy and dark. The margarita I tasted was watery. My first Nut Brown Ale was cold, and the second one was warm.

In exchange for indifferent service and bad drinks, you pay too much money. Imported beers were $4.50, and our entrees were $25 to $35, served a la carte. We thought that three of the four entrees were stingy. If you want prime rib, come back on Sunday, which is the only day it's served.

Next time we'll go to Connor's, which is also in Turkey Creek. They have almost the same menu, with better food, better prices, and better service.

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CBT's picture

Wife and I ate at the new

Wife and I ate at the new Flemings a couple of weeks ago. Good, not great. But, it's new.

We ate at Harris' Steakhouse in San Francisco tonight. Simply fabulous from start to finish. Service was perfect. Food awesome. Better than Gibson's (Chicago), Mortons, Ruth's Chris, Smith and Wollensky, Palm. I do like Capitol Grill in DC.

San Francisco has been great. Big Sur and Nepenthe for dinner last night. You have to see it to believe it. Our server spent the Summer in Knoxville a last year. Small world. Heading up the coast tomorrow.

Knoxquerious's picture

I will not support any

I will not support any business in Turkey Creek with a single dollar of mine. Overpriced, over rated, over wetlands. I don't see any turkeys and I sure as s*@t don't see any creek.

Hayduke's picture

That's how you name these developments...

That's how you name these developments: take the first native species to be driven off and pair it with the most significant natural feature to be obliterated.  I won't be spending any money there and I'm disappointed (but not surprised) to see it advertised on this forum.

Maybe in addition to having all these "sister" cities in China and elsewhere, Knoxville could pair itself with a bizzaro city which it can be its exact opposite.  I'd nominate Portland, Oregon which actually spends money fighting this kind of sprawl buying up development rights and creating an urban growth boundary.  Knoxville dumped millions of taxpayer dollars into an exurban anti-pedestrian shopping plaza for a short-term sales tax bump while ignoring the environmental degradation and long-term cost of supporting the resulting far-flung sprawl.

________________________________________
Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.

R. Neal's picture

I'm disappointed (but not

I'm disappointed (but not surprised) to see it advertised on this forum.

Why's that?

And you consider the review an advertisment? How so?

Just curious...

Hayduke's picture

In debating the relative

In debating the relative value of those two places selling feedlot-tortured, bovine growth hormone-modified cow parts, there's an assumption that spending money in Turkey Creek is a perfectly reasonable way for the progressive types that read and participate in this blog to vote their pocketbooks. I realize that it's hard to be a progressive on every issue, but this is a big one and East Tennesseans are way behind on recognizing the environmental and economic damage done by sprawl. When a progressive opinion leader in the community buys a new house in a greenfield development far from an urban center and then complains about the smog obscuring his view of the mountains without a hint of irony, I'd say we're still heading in the wrong direction on this issue.

So, I'm disappointed that you don't see a problem with it, but I'm not surprised.

____________________________________
Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.

Knoxquerious's picture

Just think people...

I don’t want to get too specific about myself, but I am an environmental

regulator with a government agency. Sorry I turned this blog into an

environmental ran too. I am not a hippie, nor a vegetarian. I am

however conscious about what I consume as I try to eat organic fruits,

vegetables and socially conscious grain fed animal byproducts. As an

environmental regulator, I understand that sprawl is going to happen. I have to

 balance development or "progress" along with doing my job in saying “damn

it, if you don’t install those silt fences properly this time I will hammer you

with fines!” Sprawl has been Knox County’s problem for decades. If we

could spend money in growing downtown up instead of out, we could sustain

 ourselves much better.  I can’t shut down every construction project because

I don’t agree with it, but I can decide where I spend my money. So enjoy

your dinner, but know that it came with a price more than your check.

P.S.  I love the Moneywrench Gang

R. Neal's picture

Hayduke:I host the site and

Hayduke:

I host the site and invite anyone, including you, to post about whatever they want within reason and according to site rules, without censorship. This post was made by Les Jones, not me. Just because Les Jones posts something does not mean that I condone it or that I agree with it or that anyone else contributing here necessarily agrees with it or not. And he's hardly a "progressive" on most issues (although he actually is on some but rarely admits it), but he and others are welcome to provide alternate viewpoints.

And what is this continued obsession about my house from both the leftwing and the rightwing extremists? I swear to God, I must have more online stalkers than Paris Hilton. First, I am not a "progressive leader". I'm just some guy trying to get by. Second, I don't want to live in an urban center. I don't work in an urban center. I work from home. I drove zero miles to work today. I go for days at a time without driving a car. And except for an occasional flight or road trip for business, I'm guessing I put fewer miles on my car and emit fewer carbons into the atmosphere (from my car, anyway) than most people. But don't blame me personally for urban sprawl. Show me a house that has the features I need and currently enjoy and I'll be happy to take a look at it. We spent five years looking (and we looked in all your usual favorite places, including Island Home, etc.). And sorry, we don't want to live in a condo downtown. It's not for everybody and never will be. And as I've mentioned before, the only problem with "urban sprawl" is internal combustion. Why don't you focus your efforts on finding an alternative instead of picking on me. I'll buy one. Just tell me where.

But whatever. Your attitude could be considered just as harmful as you believe mine to be in trying to have any sort of meaningful discourse.

In the mean time, why don't you join in with the wingnuts and pick on Al Gore. His house is three or four times as big as mine, and he has a second one that's bigger, too. And he flies around the country on private jets trying to save the planet. What a creep. And a hypocrite. He should be living in a hovel and riding his bicycle around giving his presentation on recycled cardboard.

Les Jones's picture

Knoxviews - where I'm a

Knoxviews - where I'm a "progressive opinion leader in the community" and Chris Wage and Brittney Gilbert are part of the vast right-wing conspiracy.

Says R. Neal to Hayduke:

"Your attitude could be considered just as harmful as you believe mine to be in trying to have any sort of meaningful discourse."

Yeah, being a paranoid scold and political purist has a way of turning people against your side. 


Hey, Les, why don't we just call each other assholes and get it over with. - Somebody on the old Southknoxbubba.net (if that was you, claim your quote and win net.fame!)

R. Neal's picture

Yeah, being a paranoid scold

Yeah, being a paranoid scold and political purist has a way of turning people against your side.

Oh, don't think you're fooling anybody with that, Mr. Clever Libertarian. I know that was directed at me!

Andy Axel's picture

Yeah, being a paranoid scold

Yeah, being a paranoid scold and political purist has a way of turning people against your side.

Do I detect a hint of irony?
____________________________

"winkin' at my peers," quotin' Thurston.

R. Neal's picture

Only a whiff. Heh.

Only a whiff. Heh.

metulj's picture

"I swear to God, I must have

"I swear to God, I must have more online stalkers than Paris Hilton."

I am the one who keeps leaving dead mice on your doorstep. 

 

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

Hayduke's picture

Where to start?  The phrase

Where to start?  The phrase was "progressive opinion leader."  I don't think we have any progressive leadership in this neck of the woods. 

I really hesitated mention the house because there was no way it wasn't going to trigger an emotional response.  And "stalker" my ass. When you blog photos of your new house, lawn and hazy mountain view you invite comment.  I think it's the first time I've mentioned it, but if others have, well OK, then.

And "I don't drive much" just doesn't cut it as a defense of sprawl.  You've still got the roads, spread out infrastructure, loss of farmland / habitat, the lawn, the herbicides, pesticides, the lawnmowers and weed wackers and all the other sprawlers who have to drive that much further because your little patch of heaven is in between theirs and the Wal-Mart.  You're in the game man.

You, me and Al Gore.  We're all parts of the problem.   Cousin Al's response (as I understand it) is that we can offset our environmental damage by doing anti-damage elsewhere and that can be encouraged by creating what amounts to a global market in environmental damage so that the previously externalized costs are brought into the market.  That ignores a few things like concentrated local damage and he' s ignoring a lot of non-carbon pollution, but it's a start.

____________________________________
Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.

R. Neal's picture

Oohh, you triggered an

Oohh, you triggered an emotional response. Aren't you proud? Can you show me the photo of my "new" house here at this site? Oh yeah, I posted some photos of Christmas decorations a few years ago on another site. Is that it? Why do you hate Baby Jesus? Oh, I had some photos of some nice flowers in our garden that the Mrs. has worked hard to cultivate. There might have been some brick showing. My bad. And next time I want to illustrate hazy views of the mountains, I'll be sure to drive up to Look Rock and take the photo instead of walking up the street. Will that make you happy? Or are you defending haze and air pollution? Or what?

But what's truly amazing is that you would attack me over a restaurant review. THAT I DIDN'T EVEN POST! I had no idea restaurant reviews could be so controversial! Do you guys sit up all night making up new shit to be pissed off about? What am I supposed to do, delete it and replace it with a rant against agri-business and developers? Sheesh. At any rate, I think we need more restaurant reviews at KnoxViews. They certainly seem to generate a lot of discussion!

P.S. But I am truly, truly sorry I bought this lot and built a house. I realize now that if I hadn't I could have single-handedly stopped urban sprawl in the Knox Metro area.

edens's picture

>You've still got the roads,

>You've still got the roads, spread out infrastructure, loss of farmland >/ habitat, the lawn, the herbicides, pesticides, the lawnmowers and >weed wackers and all the other sprawlers who have to drive that much >further because your little patch of heaven is in between theirs and >the Wal-Mart.

Well that wouldn't be a problem if all those people would just go the fuck away.

NIMBYism, it's the new environmentalism.

metulj's picture

Don't forget your LULUs.

Don't forget your LULUs. Next time you are up this way I'll set up lunch with Frank Popper. You'll love him. 

 

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

Hayduke's picture

>Oohh, you triggered an

 >Oohh, you triggered an emotional response. . .

WTF is that all about?  Dude, take a deep breath or something.  I would have figured you've been in this game too long to read so much "attitude" into dots on a screen.  Just because you're defensive doesn't mean you were attacked.

_________________________________________________________________ Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.

R. Neal's picture

Maybe I just don't like

Maybe I just don't like being jumped on for something somebody else typed into pixels on a screen. A fact that you still haven't acknowledged. Whatever. I guess reading comprehension doesn't go with the preservationist territory.

Just because you attacked doesn't mean I'm defensive, just trying to set the record straight. You haven't really responded to many of my points, because you are used to people just rolling over when you make shit up? Whatever.

R. Neal's picture

P.S. I didn't bring up my

P.S. I didn't bring up my house or my mountain views for comment. You did. This seems somewhat pathological in the context of a restaruant review thread (not to mention way, way offtopic, similar to the way you came in attacking me for SOMETHING I DIDN'T EVEN WRITE!). My past experience with such pathological online behavior has not resulted in very good outcomes, but I guess I can't expect you to understand that.

Number9's picture

You are not alone. I have sinned.

P.S. But I am truly, truly sorry I bought this lot and built a house. I realize now that if I hadn't I could have single-handedly stopped urban sprawl in the Knox Metro area.

You are not alone. I have sinned. Can Hayduke the all knowing vegetarian urbanist slayer of all sprawl forgive me? I live in sprawl. The only thing is, it is very nice. No drunks, no panhandlers, no gangs, and we grill meat on the back porch while listening to a mixture of seventies rock and jazz. Even the forbidden Steely Dan.

This whole class warfare thread from Hayduke is hysterical. I drive my large fuel efficient automobile to Turkey Creek often to enjoy the great food at Jimmy Johns, Bear Creek Cafe, McAllister's, Texas Roadhouse, Mimi's, Stir Fry, and for enjoyable dinners on weekends we go to Connors. All are Top shelf.

Hating rich people is so funny yet so hypocritical. Al Gore is a multi-millionaire who has a higher carbon pollution count than almost anyone in the entire Country but he is seen as the environmental savior. Al Gore can kiss my ass.

People tell us our kids can't have a good school in Hardin Valley because it will create sprawl. Kiss my ass. This idea that there is some kind of political justice for the "rich kids" to have to eat their lunch on the floor in the hallways so "regular" people can get some payback shows the shallow envy of people who want to get even with those who have more than they do. Seriously kiss my ass.

I would show you a picture of where I live but it would just piss you off Hayduke. I am living in Sprawlville and loving it. But my carbon pollution index is lower than yours. So kiss my ass.

So what is your solution for sprawl Hayduke? Let me guess, more density?

Factchecker's picture

Throwing stones

Heyduke--

Maybe not surprisingly to most, I agree with a lot of your general philosophy.  But even I have learned that you won't change hearts and minds by being so damned judgemental.  I'm more judgemental around here than in "real life," because this is a place where it's appropriate to making such arguments.  We try to sway people's views here, among other chat.  But scolding just alienates and polarizes.  Ask George W. Bush where his force on the world has gotten in winning hearts and minds, though he's probably not learned that lesson yet; I'm betting you're not so thick.  Wasn't it an open mind that led you to your thinking that runs so counter to so much of modern culture? 

The more of a purist you claim to be, the higher standard you're inviting on yourself.  That can get real difficult and unfun.  Life's too short to be so inflexible.  I think you need to think about cutting a little slack.  Hold yourself to a high standard, but don't impose it on others or rub their noses in it.  You might sometime want to live in a nice glass house (low-e, of course!).  That stuff's not cheap to replace. 

Otherwise, welcome to the fray.

Hayduke's picture

Throwing stones

So how did we get to this point anyway?  The topic is Turkey Creek, so the issue is sprawl.  While our generous hosts doesn't control individual posts, I think his influence sets the tone for much of the discussion.  And he's indicated by words and deeds that he doesn't see anything wrong with sprawl with the exception of vehicular emissions.  I think he's six kinds of wrong on that, but I have learned that facts aren't going to sway anyone invested in that lifestyle, so I hesitated (not nearly long enough).  But hell, he did ask.

I think I'm still flexible and an admitted hypocrite, so if anyone wants to argue the good or bad of sprawl I'm all for it.  That just doesn't seem to be the response I'm getting. 

 Tell me where I went all Bill O'Reilly?  R. Neal, I guess I can see where I kind of merged you and the initial post in my explanation of why I was disappointed to see TC glorified here.  I didn't clarify because I didn't see how anyone could think you wrote the restaurant review or how anyone could think I thought that. I felt like we left the restaurant review and started talking about sprawl attitudes when you asked me a question.  Then the house became somewhat relevant, but in retrospect I could see why you'd be a little touchy about crossing the blog life - real life barrier after the crap you've had to put up with on that front.

Anyway, 'nuff of that.  Are there relevant points you still want me to address?  I was trying to hijack this thread to talk about sprawl because it's interesting and fun, not to talk about personal conflicts caused by the poor bandwidth of the medium and the aggressive online writing stance we all tend to take because that's not particularly interesting or fun.

SayUncle's picture

'So how did we get to this

'So how did we get to this point anyway?'

'Cause any point you were trying to make was overshadowed by the fact you were being a dick?

---
SayUncle
Can't we all just get a long gun?

Andy Axel's picture

I was trying to hijack this

I was trying to hijack this thread to talk about sprawl because it's interesting and fun, not to talk about personal conflicts

By taking a personal shot directly at the site's host? Loudly accusing him of hypocrisy?

That's an interesting way not to inject personal conflicts into the conversation.

____________________________

"winkin' at my peers," quotin' Thurston.

Hayduke's picture

>>By taking a personal shot

>>By taking a personal shot directly at the site's
>>host? Loudly accusing him of hypocrisy?

I don't think so.  If he doesn't think there's anything wrong with sprawl, then he's not a hypocrite.

Loudly??

R. Neal's picture

Uh, to recap, you said you

So how did we get to this point anyway?

Uh, to recap, you said you were "disappointed but not surprised" to see these joints "advertised" at this site. I asked you a simple, innocuous question about those statements, just trying to understand. In response, you ascribed to me all sorts of beliefs which you assume I hold, went on a personal attack, etc. It went downhill from there.

Knoxquerious's picture

Sorry, Monkey Wrench Gang. I

Sorry, Monkey Wrench Gang. I don't use Microsoft Word for every post. But nobody likes a smart ass bizgrrl.

bizgrrl's picture

Moi? Sorry, I gave you a

Moi? Sorry, I gave you a chance to correct. Love the book.  Just thought you were trying to make some weird point, moneywrench vs monkey wrench.

Hayduke's picture

Still trying to figure what

Still trying to figure what beliefs I mis-ascribed to you.  Am I misunderstanding your pro-sprawl attitude?  Any perceived personal attack was unintended.  Hate the exurbia, not the exurbian.

 

 

WhitesCreek's picture

Regarding the thread on

Regarding the thread on restaurant reviews, urban sprawl, suburban sprawl, and environmetal holier than thou-ism...

I owe Bubba a debt of gratitude for hosting this site and also for wearing that big bull's eye on his chest. We're all trying to save the world here, or at least trying and make it a better place while the republicans kill it off in the race to die richest. In the meantime we gotta live.

I once figured out how many acres of forest it takes to supply enough air for a human being to live, having bought up a fair bit of acreage to keep it out of developer's hands, At first I thought I was keeping about 80,000 of you people alive but I had miscalculated. Woe be unto me at discovering that I had let roughly 40,000 of you slip through my hands. I was devastated at the loss...Oh, the Humanity!

 Still, I keep solace in knowing that I have managed to provide air for thousands, more if they're careful, by way of the trees in WhitesCreek Gorge.

So, Bubba, in return for allowing me to record my frivolous thoughts on your site, and also for so gently correcting me in my moments of stupidity, I hearby dedicate enough forest to cover your needs. Enough for your self, Mrs. Bubba, Pupster, and the various denizens of your compound.

In addition, I think there is enough air producing forest out here to take care of most everybody that posts here, Left, Right, and Wrong. But I'm getting cranky in my old age and I expect a certain level of civil behavior. Anybody pisses me off by the way they talk to or about someone else...Well...I'm going out there and turning their part of the forest into a food plot for the deer.

Got that, Viewers? Be nice...or Die!

I have Spoken. 

WhitesCreek

 

 

bizgrrl's picture

Urban center! Knoxville? Ha,

Urban center! Knoxville? Ha, Urban center! Ya know, there are other counties in this region other than Knox and there are other cities (towns?) in these counties. Do we all have to live on top of each other in the 4 square miles (or less?) of downtown Knoxville (urban center)?

I like Turkey Creek shopping! So shoot me. There certainly aren't but 2-3 shops in downtown Ktown. Can I even get underwear there?

P.S.  I love the Moneywrench Gang  (Hmmm, typo or what do you really mean?)

R. Neal's picture

Good point. We live in the

Good point. We live in the city and pay city taxes. For that we get police and fire protection, water, sewer, garbage pickup, curbside recycling, streetlights, sidewalks, even streetsweepers, you know, all the urban amenities. And we're about two miles driving distance from City Hall and a nice park, and once they complete a planned greenway extension and pedestrian overwalk it will be within walking/bicycling distance and concievably even grocery stores, drug stores, dining, etc., although I'll still probably drive.

Carole Borges's picture

Mast General stores might have underwear...

They seem to have everything else. They are a little expensive for me, but I watch the sales, and they always have a lot of quality merchandise I'd love to buy. Nice atmosphere too. You can stroll to several great restaurants downtown, hang out in Market Square. or if it's noon, hop across the street to see the live radio show and the Blue Plate Special. If it's serenity you like parks all around. I find it a thousand times better than shopping malls built to look like movie sets.

It's a matter of choice though. Some people like the shopping center concept and the newer the better. You can tell by all the empty malls out West (anything beyond Beardon in my book) though, the shelf life of new shopping centers is sometimes very short because developers always have a "new and improved" version on the drawing table.

Justin's picture

In debating the relative

In debating the relative value of those two places selling feedlot-tortured, bovine growth hormone-modified cow parts...

I like my feedlot tortured cow parts medium rare. I cook them over an atmosphere polluting propane grill that was purchased at a Wal-Mart that was built by bulldozing a creek. Until an alien species decides to gift us with a working cold fusion reactor your pontificating about the environment is for naught...

Les Jones's picture

You consider that an advertisement?

Right, because I gave Fleming's such a glowing review - poor service, poor drinks, average food, and overpriced. Imagine if they hadn't paid me off - I might have said I found a dead monkey under the table.


Hey, Les, why don't we just call each other assholes and get it over with. - Somebody on the old Southknoxbubba.net (if that was you, claim your quote and win net.fame!)

metulj's picture

Portland

I will remind the kind gentleman that Portland's Urban Growth Boundary has been a direct cause of nasty sprawl in places like Vancouver, Washington. Sprawlers will sprawl. It is cheap, easy and profitable. Sprawlstitutes?? 

 

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

Hayduke's picture

 >>Sprawlers will sprawl.

 >>Sprawlers will sprawl. It is cheap, easy and profitable. Sprawlstitutes??

It's cheap because we're able to externalize the costs and we're such slutty sprawlstitutes that nothing will change until individuals making 'lifestyle decisions' have to face those costs.  Not much chance of that I guess.

So do you think Portland's efforts been useless or counterproductive?   Is it just because they're too close to the state line?  Seemed like a rather cool, functional urban core (wide selection of underwear for sale), but I didn't have any reason to explore the edges. 

_________________________________________________________________ Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.

Knoxquerious's picture

P.S.  I love the

P.S.  I love the Moneywrench Gang  (Hmmm, typo or what do you really mean?)

hmmm...it's a book not a typo. It is also in reference to the name "Hayduke" from the book and the monkey wrech icon in which he represents. I don't want to shoot you for shopping Turkey Creek, just want you to be concious of what that used to be. hmmm..... hmmmm.... hmmmm.....

bizgrrl's picture

P.S.  I love the

P.S.  I love the Moneywrench Gang  (Hmmm, typo or what do you really mean?)

hmmm...it's a book not a typo.

Well, then I guess it's a typo, the book is Monkey Wrench Gang, not moneywrench. Edward Abbey might frown at moneywrench.

Rachel's picture

So do you think Portland's

So do you think Portland's efforts been useless or counterproductive?  

I wrote my thesis on the Oregon, Washington, and Tennessee growth management programs a few years ago, and so did a lot of research into this subject.  In addition, the spouse is a native Oregonian, so I've spent a fair amount of time out there.

I certainly wouldn't call Oregon's (and it's really the state rather than Portland per se that leads the way in land use in Oregon) efforts either useless or counterproductive.  In fact, they've been quite successful.

Have they been perfect?  No.  As Toby points out, Portland's location on the state line has allowed some of what would have been its sprawl to move over into Vancouver - although under Washington's Growth Management Act, Vancouver should be getting its own sprawl act together (some Washington counties have been very proactive in this regard - some, including the county where Vancouver is located, have had to be dragged kicking and screaming into obeying the law.  And the Washington law is only about 15 years old; Oregon's dates back to the 70s).

 And before somebody drags out the argument that Portland's UGB has caused housing prices to skyrocket, let me point out that numerous studies show that just isn't the case.  Prices have gone up, but not primarily because of the UGB.

Les Jones's picture

What have I done?

In the future I'll try to avoid controversial topics like restaurant reviews.  


Hey, Les, why don't we just call each other assholes and get it over with. - Somebody on the old Southknoxbubba.net (if that was you, claim your quote and win net.fame!)

rikki's picture

sheesh

I was wondering why no one had anything to say over in the 8th District Industrial Park thread until I saw the 35 new posts over here.

So I spend all day Monday in the MPC library and City-County Bldg, dig up solid evidence that the Midway Rd Business Park is part of a larger strategy to bring sprawl-supporting infrastructure to rural East Knox County, write 1200 words about it, and all it really takes to get people talking about sprawl is a review of a disappointing meal at a steak place in Turkey Creek.

edens's picture

Actually, all you gotta do

Actually, all you gotta do is mention Bubba's Blount county compound. He's a mite touchy about the McMansion.

Btw, ain't you boys neighbors?

rikki's picture

not exactly

I don't consider someone a neighbor until they send the stretch Hummer over for a drive down Nails Creek Rd shooting meadowlarks, followed by a mediocre steak dinner in Pigeon Forge amidst Ohioans.

metulj's picture

This will ruin

This will ruin downtown. 

 

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

Number9's picture

I wanted to go with the

I wanted to go with the restaurant review theme but got distracted with the sprawl/class warfare detour. I had my only meal at Peerless and was amazed at the dismal food quality. The service and atmosphere were very good but I was amazed with the food. I had the broiled seafood combo. It was the worst seafood I ever had. I never knew seafood could be so overcooked. The better half had the usual Prime Rib which was way overcooked and quite tasteless. I thought I had been smart because I waited three months after Peerless opened so they could get the kinks out. I am curious if anyone else has eaten there?

The meal was so bad I put the receipt on my desk at worked and meant to write the owners about my experience. After a few weeks I just decided not to return.

I have a lot of friends in the restaurant business. They tell me it is very difficult to find good workers. The joke is when a waiter drives a nicer car than the manager you know there will be problems. I blame sprawl.

Les Jones's picture

Number 9:

I haven't eaten at the Knoxville Peerless, but we ate at the original Johnson City Peerless for Melissa's graduation. The place is apparently legendary and has seating for like 500 people or something, but we really disappointed. Lousy service, food took forever and a day, bad iced tea, and mixed-up orders. Food was OK, but not worth all of the other problems. 

Just so I don't sound like I hate everything, I love Connor's, Baker-Peters, By the Tracks Bistro, Wasabi, Regas, and lots of others.


Hey, Les, why don't we just call each other assholes and get it over with. - Somebody on the old Southknoxbubba.net (if that was you, claim your quote and win net.fame!)

tennesseevaluesauthority's picture

Love the Regas?

Les Jones said: Just so I don't sound like I hate everything, I love Connor's, Baker-Peters, By the Tracks Bistro, Wasabi, Regas, and lots of others.

This fascinates me. Why does anyone love the Regas? Just asking.

Les Jones's picture

TVA:

In maybe ten times eating at Regas I've never had a bad meal or a bad time. The food is just as expensive as Fleming's, but it's better and the food and service is consistently good.


Hey, Les, why don't we just call each other assholes and get it over with. - Somebody on the old Southknoxbubba.net (if that was you, claim your quote and win net.fame!)

tennesseevaluesauthority's picture

Fair enough. I've never been

Fair enough. I've never been impressed with it and always had the thought that it must get by on some previous reputation it had as a dining destination before my time. For my money, if I were to drop that kind of change on a nice dinner out, I might be more inclined to go elsewhere. Everyone's mileage varies, I suppose.

Les Jones's picture

The safe bet

Regas is definitely the conservative choice. Not trendy, not even the best food you can get in Knoxville. What you're paying for is surf and turf with consistency that's stretched over decades. If you have a special occasion and don't want anyone to be disappointed, Regas won't let you down. Another place that won't let you down, but that has better, more adventurous food is By the Tracks Bistro.

Speaking of good restaurants, in Maryville we love Lemon Grass. So good. Also Los Amigos, which is inexpensive and unfancy, but which has very good Mexican food and a mole sauce unlike any other around here.


Hey, Les, why don't we just call each other assholes and get it over with. - Somebody on the old Southknoxbubba.net (if that was you, claim your quote and win net.fame!)

CBT's picture

I couldn't figure out how in

I couldn't figure out how in the heck there were 51 responses to a restaurant review. Whew.

I don't care much for Turkey Creek, though it's just a few miles from the house. Some shops are ok. I don't like the congestion and layout.

On organic food...I'm in California. I've never seen so much organic "name it" in my life. Some good stuff. Some strange. Overheard a server at a fancy restaurant tell a young girl their venison was strictly "free range". I don't eat much deer, but I didn't know there was such a thing as non-free range deer. Maybe I know too many people who hunt the things. Do they have deer farms or was this waiter trying to be a bit too "impressive"?

Best quote, when asking the guy at the organic farm fruitstand if the strawberries were in season, his response "there's no season man, we take whatever nature gives us". Say it like you're stoned and you'll get the picture. The strawberries were very good.

We're visiting some wineries tomorrow. I'll make sure to ask for their best elderberry. I'm not much into wine. I like the coast driving and small towns the last couple of days.

Factchecker's picture

Heavy Northern Cal

Hope some of the "nuclear free zone" stuff rubs off on you there, CBT.  We spent a wkd in those parts a few months back.  One of the most beautiful places on earth.  Easy to find great coffee.  There's a little spot called Duncan's Mills that has the best coffee/sandwich/muffin shop.  We visited wineries in the Russian River area, including Korbel, which had a good tour.  The Gary Farrell winery up the road from Korbel was the most beautiful, with incredible views that made it well worth the stop. 

Don't forget to stop and walk among the redwoods, such as in Muir Woods.  And I recommend wandering through Frank Lloyd Wright's Marin County Civic Center.  You can spot it just off the 101, on the east side.

We never figured how the locals can afford to live there, though.  Couldn't believe the prices.

CBT's picture

Did the walk at Muri Woods.

Did the walk at Muri Woods. Amazing. Makes me want to see the Sequoyahs.

We did the mile walk around Mount Tam {highest peak around the Bay area I think). One side you see the Pacific, the other San Fran.

Went to Point Reyes yesterday. Awesome coastline scenery. Point Reyes Station is a neat small town.

The day before we drove south to Big Sur and back. What's almost shocking is that virtually all the land which borders the Pacific is used for farming (mostly strawberries and avacados) and cattle ranches. Cows literally stand along the cliffs overlooking the ocean. Workers pick behind machinery and if they look over they are just a few yards from the Pacific in places. And, this is all along the coast.

Coffee is everywhere...if it's before 5:00. Not in the city of course, but if you're out in the countryside, the small towns roll up the sidewalks early.

In wine country today. I like "wine" which is yellow and fizzy. But, I'm interested to see the farming and making process.

CBT's picture

Sorry, Muir. At least my

Sorry, Muir. At least my misspelling was consistent.

rikki's picture

and sequoia ;)Don't forget

and sequoia ;)

Don't forget to try some Oakland barbecue. Flint's was the best when I lived there briefly about 20 years ago. 

Factchecker's picture

Cows literally stand along

Cows literally stand along the cliffs overlooking the ocean.

We were surprised by that too.  Seems like they'd lose one every now and then to poor traction.  Have a nice rest of trip.

Up Goose Creek's picture

Oxygen

So how many acres of mature forest does it take for a mature human to breathe?

WhitesCreek's picture

 Mamaw asked the

 Mamaw asked the question...

"So how many acres of mature forest does it take for a mature human to breathe?"

This is extremely pertinent to restaurant review so for that reason only I will provide a weaselly answer. The timber industry gives the number at 18 people per acre. That is of course very low since they are primarily concerned with plantation forests that never have a mature tree in them. We estimate WhitesCreek Gorge in the 30 people per acre range. I plan to take this to a new thread at some point.

Breathe deeply for now...

bizgrrl's picture

Yes, in the at least 10

Yes, in the at least 10 times we have eaten at Regas, the food and service were always good. It's like you know if you go there you won't be disappointed. Better food elsewhere, not sure? Better ambiance, only maybe. But then I am a huge fan of Riverside Tavern.

tennesseevaluesauthority's picture

Never Had a Problem with Regas Service

I've never had a problem with the Regas service. In fact, I would say the best thing about the Regas (and their early ownership of the Riverside Tavern) was their dedication to good service training. It showed. I had an opportunity once to see a behind-the-scenes meeting of banquet staff at the Tavern (when Regas owned it) as they prepared for a special event to be held in one of their private rooms. I was thoroughly impressed with the discussion the banquet captain was having with the staff-- and the results that followed.

The food has always seemed, well, okay. It's good and consistent but never really anything that I felt the need to go and rave to anyone about it, either. As Les suggests, it is a good conservative choice for special occasions. The chances of being disappointed are probably low, but it somehow just doesn't have that certain something. But, that's just me.

Justin's picture

Riverside cant be

Riverside cant be beat...cool view of the river and kick ass steak and service.

Opinari's picture

More Restaurant Reviews!

If for no other reason than to see what sort of response will come of it.

Seriously, I'm only in Knoxville about 2 weeks out of the year anymore, and I'm always looking for a new place to take the wife to eat. if Les wants to review every restaurant in Knoxville and surrounding areas, it's fine by me.

Tell you what. I'll trade you an East Texas/Dallas Metroplex (talk about sprawl!) restaurant review for an East Tennessee restaurant review.

bodavy's picture

very subjective les

Nice plug at the end of your blog about Fleming's. Apparently that is the pinnacle of your experience with fine dining. Funny that your margarita tasted "watery" when the only water in the drink is ice. Fleming's uses only fresh squeezed juices in all mixed drinks. The consistency of your "nut brown ale" seems contrived since Fleming's does not serve a nut brown ale. Why did you not mention the wine service given that Fleming's is also a Wine Bar? That's right, I suppose your fine dining experience is best complemented with beer and margaritas (maybe you're better suited at Cozymel's). I'm unsure how your entrees seemed stingy since the size of each entree is listed on the menu. If you order an 8 ounce filet, don't be surprised when your filet is 8 ounces. The prices reflect the quality of the beef. Fleming's is a "Prime Steakhouse", if I have to explain the difference between USDA "prime" beef and "choice" beef (which Connor's and every other restaurant in Knoxville serves) then you are definitely not qualified to review any restaurant, much less berate one you cannot understand. By the way, prime rib is only served one day a week by choice. At least you know it was roasted fresh that day, and you're not eating 3-day old prime rib like all the hometown mainstays (Connor's, Edison Park, Regas, Copper Cellar). I can't wait to read your next restaurant "review", I hear a new taco stand is opening in Powell...

metulj's picture

Hell, none of them have

Hell, none of them have anything on La Brigada, San Telmo, Buenos Aires, Argentina. Best. Steak. Ever. American beef is about texture first, flavor second. Not even those Omaha Steaks come close to how beef actually tastes. Everyone wants buttery flesh and a slightly sweet taste. Countries that don't feed lot beef, like Argentina, actually have geographical denominations on their steers such that an ojo de bife from one region is expected to taste different than the same cut from another region because of the water it drank, the grass it ate and the air it breathed. I'd go back in two seconds for a La Brigada's prix fixe of 120 pesos  ($40) for beef for two (any custom cut up to 25oz), sides, dessert and 2 bottles of wine. Closest you can get in the States is Industria Argentina  on Greenwich St in TriBeca and that is $200 for a couple in comparison. Truly a meat eater's experience.

When next in Knoxville, I will try this place even if it is in Turkey Creek.  

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

bizgrrl's picture

Well, that's not fair. I

Well, that's not fair. I have to go to New Yawk (or Buenos Aires) to taste this beouf of which you speak.

metulj's picture

There is a Brazilian style

There is a Brazilian style steakhouse in Atlanta. Lots of fun with waiters serving your ojo skewered on a calvary sword.  

 

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

Les Jones's picture

Mmmm,,,,

We ate at two Brazilian restaurants in Manhattan this year. We're hooked.

What's the place in Atlanta called? 


Hey, Les, why don't we just call each other assholes and get it over with. - Somebody on the old Southknoxbubba.net (if that was you, claim your quote and win net.fame!)

metulj's picture

It is part the Fogo De Chao

It is part the Fogo De Chao chain. When next in the City, be sure to take in Industria Argentina. 

 

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

Justin's picture

Bodavy...you do realize that

Bodavy...you do realize that you are sticking up for a "chain restaurant" dont you? (yes I realize I endorsed Riverside which is a "chain" as well but I dont post comments that make me sound like my shit doesnt stink) I ate at Flemmings earlier this week...sorry to burst your bubble but its nothing more than Outback with a higher price tag and different name. Then again I'm not an uppity ass like yourself so maybe I missed some of the finer nuances of a wannabe trendy restaurant located in a strip mall in front of Target and Wal Mart...

Les Jones's picture

bodavy:

"The consistency of your "nut brown ale" seems contrived since Fleming's does not serve a nut brown ale."

No, you're wrong. I had two.  EDIT: actually, on second thought they were Newcastles which is a brown ale but a not a nut brown ale. So mea culpa there. But, honestly, if you're implying I didn't eat there you're nuts.

Gee, you don't have any affiliation with Fleming's, do you? Your attitude and insults aren't going to persuade anyone to eat there.


Hey, Les, why don't we just call each other assholes and get it over with. - Somebody on the old Southknoxbubba.net (if that was you, claim your quote and win net.fame!)

whirledpeas's picture

Flemings-great service

My wife and I ate at Fleming's last Saturday during the UT game (a great time to eat out in West Knox, no crowds) and we were blown away by the great service, starting with the valet parking. The food was well prepared, and portions were ample. The dessert was incredible, and all the food had a great presentation. Sure, it isn't inexpensive, but to compare it with Connor's is like saying Edison Park is expensive because you can get a hamburger cheaper at Wendy's..

Les Jones's picture

Now Edison Park is actually

Now Edison Park is actually worth the money. 

Glad you had a better experience at Fleming's than we did.


Hey, Les, why don't we just call each other assholes and get it over with. - Somebody on the old Southknoxbubba.net (if that was you, claim your quote and win net.fame!)

Number9's picture

Now Edison Park is actually

Now Edison Park is actually worth the money.

Les, what have you had at Edison Park that you liked? How about a mini-review?

Socialist With A Gold Card's picture

Uh oh

How about a mini-review?

You're just trying to stir up trouble, aren't you? ;-) 

--Socialist With A Gold Card


"I'm a socialist with a gold card. I firmly believe we need a revolution; I'm just concerned that I won't be able to get good moisturizer afterwards." --Brett Butler

 

Les Jones's picture

Do you know how many

Do you know how many greenhouse gases are produced because of Thomas Edison's inventions?

I keed I keed.

It's been like a year, year and a half since I ate at Edison's so I can't give it a fair review, but I liked it.


Hey, Les, why don't we just call each other assholes and get it over with. - Somebody on the old Southknoxbubba.net (if that was you, claim your quote and win net.fame!)

pan's picture

I too boycott everything at

I too boycott everything at Turkey Creek as much as I can, because of the wetlands issue.

And any business which operates out of Turkey Creek should know that they're financially supporting those responsible for the environmental destruction.

The same goes for anyone who spends money there.

Smooth, broad and paved over wetlands is the road to hell...

Brawny's picture

Too bad Edison Park is closed

Too bad Edison Park is closed. The place will be missed.

Brawny's picture

Your comment was posted

Your comment was posted quite some time ago....2006? Do you still feel the same after two million people have enjoyed this complex?

>>>I too boycott everything at Turkey Creek as much as I can, because of the wetlands issue.

Pickens's picture

Where do you come up with

Where do you come up with that 2 million people figure?

Rachel's picture

I wasn't the one who posted

I wasn't the one who posted the comment, but I've never set foot in Turkey Creek for some of the same reasons. Don't have any plans to go there either. My life seems to move along just fine w/o it.

Of course, I've also never been to the new south Knox Wal-Mart, although I live in south Knoxville. Maybe I'm just unAmerican or something.

Up Goose Creek's picture

Edison Park

I ate there once and thought it pretentious and everything was too salty, even the spinach.

Dad and SM favor Aubrey's across the street and I like the atmosphere much better. But bewarned - I ordered the alfredo pasta and I swear I put on 5 lbs from that one meal alone.

____________________________________
Less is the new More - Karrie Jacobs

bizgrrl's picture

I ordered the alfredo pasta

I ordered the alfredo pasta and I swear I put on 5 lbs from that one meal alone.

That happens to me every time I eat pizza. It's a sad thing.

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