TYP public meeting re. PSH costs

Mon

May 17 2010

06:55 pm

By: R. Neal

What: TYP public meeting re. PSH costs
When: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 - 6:00pm
Where: Cansler Family YMCA, 616 Jessamine Street

Bill Lyons and Jon Lawler will give presentations on the cost of permanent supportive housing at a public meeting scheduled for Wednesday. Public participation is invited. More info in the press release after the jump...

City of Knoxville press release...

The Office of the Ten-Year Plan to End Chronic Homelessness would like to invite the public to a public conversation at the Cansler Family YMCA. We’ll be discussing the cost of permanent supportive housing. Bill Lyons, Senior Director of Knoxville’s Policy and Communications Department and Jon Lawler, Director of the Ten-Year Plan to End Chronic Homelessness, will present for the first half of the meeting. The second half will be reserved for questions and conversation related to the subject of costs associated with permanent supportive housing.

This is the second in a series of similar public conversations.

We would like to keep these meetings concise, to respect the time of attendees. We will offer them on a regular basis, and invite presenters who can speak to their areas of expertise and to the roles that they play in support of the TYP. We’ll open up the floor for questions and conversation on the specific issue being addressed, and we’ll ask attendees for ideas about subjects they’d like for us to address in future public conversations.

I'd say this is short notice

Submitted by bizgrrl on Tue, 2010/05/18 - 6:33am.

I'd say this is short notice of the meeting. Also, if they are wanting to move the homeless to different parts of town maybe the meetings should be in different parts of town.

The date of this meeting was

Submitted by Rachel on Tue, 2010/05/18 - 12:03pm.

The date of this meeting was announced at the last meeting. The info has been out there was awhile.

Cansler Y is centrally located and a good facility for fairly large meetings. And it has plenty of free and convenient parking.

The date

Submitted by R. Neal on Tue, 2010/05/18 - 12:07pm.

The press release was posted as soon as it was received yesterday. It was sent to all local media, AP, and a long list of reporters, etc. at 4:59 PM yesterday.

Notice of this meeting.

Submitted by Robert Finley on Tue, 2010/05/18 - 3:35pm.

As Rachel mentioned, this meeting was announced at the last meeting like it, on April 28.

WATE were kind enough to mention tomorrow night's meeting in their coverage of the last one, and Rebecca Ferrar over at KnoxNews did the same.

The time, date, location and topic of tomorrow's meeting were also mentioned on our website on April 30, in a report on the April 28 meeting.

David Massey has publicized this meeting in the last three editions of his widely-distributed Neighborhood Advisory weekly newsletter.

We issued a press release yesterday and posted essentially the same info at our website today as a reminder.

Best,
Robert Finley
TYP

BS. way to spin, finster.

Submitted by Anonemon (not verified) on Wed, 2010/05/19 - 8:14pm.

BS. way to spin, finster. y'all just keep digging a bigger hole.

you think people whipped out their dayplanners april 29?

it is your job to issue press releases in a TIMELY manner.

TYP credibility: zero, and falling.

.

Submitted by Anonymously Nine on Tue, 2010/05/18 - 9:31am.

Have you ever attended a single meeting metulj? This meeting should be held at the Main Assembly Room at the City County Building so it can be televised. They are hiding from the people.

The meeting will go like this.

Pro Forma:

Federal Goverment grants for the buildings.

Case management from VMC

Addiction therapy from Medicaid/TennCare

No cost to Knoxville taxpayers. Yeah, right. That is a rerun from the Arnstein meeting. Put it on television so people can see it.

Why don't you take your

Submitted by Rachel on Tue, 2010/05/18 - 12:04pm.

Why don't you take your camera and tape it, Skippy? You are the great public servant.

Yeah, what happened to channel nine?

I suspect the Cansler Y was chosen over the C/C Bldg because of the difficulties wrt parking at the latter.

issuing a press release COB

Submitted by rocketsquirrel on Tue, 2010/05/18 - 12:13pm.

issuing a press release COB (close of business) two days before definitely insures their stated goal of keeping the meeting concise.

Oh geez, come on. They TYP

Submitted by Rachel on Tue, 2010/05/18 - 3:00pm.

Oh geez, come on. They TYP deserves plenty of criticism, but this is pretty standard City practice for press releases announcing meetings. I've complained about it before, in other contexts.

Don't they need to tell the

Submitted by bizgrrl on Tue, 2010/05/18 - 3:27pm.

Don't they need to tell the citizens about the meeting to attract more interest in the project? Or, do they only want citizens who were able to attend a previous meeting to attend future meetings?

.

Submitted by Anonymously Nine on Tue, 2010/05/18 - 6:20pm.

"Don't they need to tell the citizens about the meeting to attract more interest in the project? Or, do they only want citizens who were able to attend a previous meeting to attend future meetings?"

You would think if they wanted the public to know what was happening they would schedule far enough in advance a place that would accommodate plenty of people and arrange to have it taped for CTV. There are plenty of area high schools that would be better. West High School would be perfect.

This is an important meeting. But the format is setup to discourage attendance. It makes you wonder why they control their message this way when their positives are so low and their negatives are so high.

This is nothing more than the

Submitted by whooshe65 on Wed, 2010/05/19 - 7:36am.

This is nothing more than the results of the Bunker mentality that has gripped the Mayor's office in regards to the questions that have been raised about the so-called Ten Year Plan, and its lack of any real financial planning.

If the TYP feels that the YMCA’s are good venues to hold their meetings, maybe they should hold the next few meetings at some of the other 5 YMCA locations in the City and County.

There is no perfect choice...

Submitted by Bird_dog on Wed, 2010/05/19 - 9:16am.

But the most vocal opposition to PSH has come from "the West" and many Westies have probably never been east of The James White. I think a video of the presentations on cost would be a very good idea, or at least a summary of the data on the TYP site. Some of us old codgers don't get out much.

Anyway, when you're talking numbers, you need handouts with graphs and charts and circles and arrows on the back...:) for the benefit of the Group W(est) bench.

But the most vocal opposition

Submitted by Rachel on Wed, 2010/05/19 - 1:29pm.

But the most vocal opposition to PSH has come from "the West" and many Westies have probably never been east of The James White.

Perhaps it would help them to do so.

I was there, I was originally

Submitted by Nope (not verified) on Thu, 2010/05/20 - 12:03am.

I was there, I was originally for the 10 Year Plan, until tonight. This project will completely break the city of Knoxville. Technically, they have only 1 PSH up in nearly 6 years of the plan, Flenniken is not complete yet.

The presentation was a complete dog-and-pony show in my opinion.

Could someone post a more

Submitted by Rachel on Thu, 2010/05/20 - 12:15am.

Could someone post a more complete account? I had a conflict; didn't make it home till 7ish and missed the meeting.

Perhaps #9 could share?

I'll take a stab at it ...

Submitted by Linda Rust (not verified) on Thu, 2010/05/20 - 2:15pm.

PSH Costs were broken down into 3 types:

1 - Development Costs
2 - Operational Costs
3 - Case Management Costs

1 - Development Costs
Flenniken was used as an example for development costs. There are a wide array of funding sources that have to be balanced. A Subsidy Layering Review is required and is conducted by third party.

LIHTC - $3.1M
FHLB - $1M
CDBG - $100,000
HOME - $ 50,000
NSP - $800,000
TCAP - $1.5M
Mortgage - $300,000

Development costs at Flenniken are around $7.05M. All but the mortgage ($300,000) are grants with no repayment required.

Why so expensive?
* There are more common areas than typical housing units.
* Minvilla is a historic preservation which made it more expensive. Flenniken is an adaptive reuse, not a historical preservation project, so is not quite as expensive.
* Cox Street was new construction.

2 - Operational Costs

Tenant share (rent will be 1/3 of their income)
Section 8 TBRA (vouchers)

Payroll, utilities, repair/maintenance, taxes, insurance, managment, reserves for operating, reserves for repair/replacement

Operational costs are higher in PSH because more staff are needed than typical housing units, bigger reserves are needed (risk), utilities are higher due to more common areas

Typical SSI income is $674/month (SS may be higher depending upon work history of person).

3 - Case Management Costs

Local Community Philanthropy (United Way, etc.)
HPRP funds
other federal grants (SAMSAH)
"Pay for Performance" (costs savings realized by PSH - TYP Office are talking now with the Knox County Sheriff's Dept.)

Development of PSH will be one-step-at-a-time with the goal of one development (approx. 48 units) per year. VMC will make the determination of what future case management services can be provided as the planning process for new units proceeds.

Risk - Although SE Housing will receive approx. $800,000 in development fees, they also assume the risk. THDA allows 15% maximum for developer's fees. These funds will be used for reserves (#1 priority), to support the tax equity, for first-time expenditures (pre-development) and other eligible expenses. The development side of things is hard to put together and there is significant operations risk (rent). SE Housing is a non profit and all funds must be used for their mission of affordable housing development. Cash flow is expected to be minimal with no profit.

Nicely done, Linda.

Submitted by Bird_dog on Thu, 2010/05/20 - 2:49pm.

Thanks!
Are their any breakdowns, or budget projections, for the expense side?

.

Submitted by Anonymously Nine on Thu, 2010/05/20 - 3:18pm.

"PSH Costs were broken down into 3 types:

1 - Development Costs
2 - Operational Costs
3 - Case Management Costs"

You left off Number 4. And that is why this will fail.

This cannot work without Addiction Therapy Services. This so called "plan", really a building program, has nothing to improve their lives and return them to society. Case management is making sure they get to the bank to get their checks so rent can be paid. This is simply hiding addicts in the dark while they drink and drug themselves to death. It is unconscionable.

The Emperor wears no clothes. Last night the Ten Year Plan had the chance to come clean. They stayed with their game plan. Soon, people will vote on this. And they will remember last nights duck and cover.

Linda, so we can agree that

Submitted by rocketsquirrel on Thu, 2010/05/20 - 3:20pm.

Linda,

so we can agree that development costs for Minvilla and Flenniken are around $7 million each. Correct?

Minvilla is 57 units, Flenniken about 48 units, if I recall correctly.

If the goal is around 48 PSH units per year, are you saying that we're looking at $7 million a year in development costs?

All but the mortgage ($300,000) are grants with no repayment required.

That doesn't make it free. We're consuming CDBG monies as well as NSP monies, that could be used for other purposes, like low-income housing rehab, senior assistance, etc. The TYP is sucking a lot of oxygen out of the federal funds that Knoxville receives. Let's not forget that.

At 48 units a year, it's a

Submitted by rocketsquirrel on Thu, 2010/05/20 - 3:53pm.

At 48 units a year, it's a good thing that "Ten," "Twenty," and "Thirty" all start with the letter "T." Otherwise we would have to rename the program.

That's a Low-Income Housing Tax Credit thing.

Submitted by Robert Finley on Thu, 2010/05/20 - 5:35pm.

We have applied in the "Small Development" set-aside for 9% Low-Income Housing Tax Credits because it has made us slightly more competitive to do so. 48 is the magic number in that set-aside. If you build a 49-unit development, it's no longer "small" according to the Qualified Allocation Plan (QAP) that governs the allocation of tax credits in Tennessee.

Having said that, the Tennessee Housing Development Agency is presently redesigning the tax credit program. That particular set aside might not exist in the 2011 QAP. We'll have to wait and see.

The size is a good size in some respects. It also misses out on some economies of scale that would attach to a larger development. From an efficiency of operations standpoint, a 100-unit development would make the most sense, probably. I have a feeling that that would also seem way too big for a new development to most people in most parts of our community.

Thanks,
Robert

Next Meeting: Weds., June 23rd, 6:00 PM at Deane Hill Rec. Ctr.

Submitted by Linda Rust (not verified) on Thu, 2010/05/20 - 2:27pm.

Dr. Roger Nooe, Mike Dunthorn and I will discuss the planning process that went into the Ten Year Plan.

Alphabet Soup

Submitted by Linda Rust (not verified) on Thu, 2010/05/20 - 2:41pm.

PSH - permanent supportive housing
LIHTC - Low Income Housing Tax Credit
FHLB - Federal Home Loan Bank
CDBG - Community Development Block Grant
HOME - HOME Investment Partnership Program
NSP - Neighborhood Stabilization Program
TCAP - Tax Credit Assistance Program
TBRA - Tenant-based Rental Assistance
HPRP - Homelessness Prevention and Rapid Re-housing Program
SAMSHA - Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration
SS - Social Security income
SSI - Supplemental Security Income
THDA - Tennessee Housing Development Agency
VMC - Volunteer Ministry Center

Thanks for doing this, Linda.

Submitted by Robert Finley on Thu, 2010/05/20 - 5:40pm.

And for your brevity-conscious boildown of the meeting last night.

I've posted my own notes at our website.

Next meeting will be at Deane Hill Rec Center on June 23. Cansler has been a great location, good size, very accessible, free parking, and very easy for us to set up time in. We'll return to it for sure, but we want to spread the conversation around town.

Best,
Robert Finley

.

Submitted by Anonymously Nine on Thu, 2010/05/20 - 7:38pm.

(link...)

"The next public conversation will be held at the Deane Hill Recreation Center from 6-7pm on Wednesday, June 23. The topic will be how the Ten-Year Plan came about. Dr. Roger Nooe, our community’s recognized expert on the subject of homelessness, Mike Dunthorn of the Ten-Year Plan office, who helped write the plan, and Linda Rust, of Knox County’s Community Development Department, who facilitated Community Concerns working groups’ input in the TYP’s formation for a period of about a year, will present as a panel. We’ll follow the same basic format. First half hour presentation, second half conversation about the subject."

You should have identified yourself a long time ago Ms. Rust. Most people including myself had no idea what your involvement was.

Shhhh!! Until just now, you seemed so well informed!

Submitted by Bike Bitchell on Thu, 2010/05/20 - 11:29pm.

You should have identified yourself a long time ago Ms. Rust.

She did, brotha. Or someone did. She's listed right up front in the 10 Year Plan.

.

Submitted by Anonymously Nine on Fri, 2010/05/21 - 8:34am.

Since you seem to know the Ten Year Plan so well, show us where in the Ten Year Plan where addiction treatment is addressed. There is a mention of it, just not a plan to do it. They know it is crucial, they just don't know how to do it or pay for it.

Could it be that addiction is

Submitted by Andy Axel on Fri, 2010/05/21 - 9:27am.

Could it be that addiction is handled under the subheading of "case management?" UNPOSSIBLE!

.

Submitted by Anonymously Nine on Fri, 2010/05/21 - 9:48am.

"Could it be that addiction is handled under the subheading of "case management?" UNPOSSIBLE!"

That is what I thought for about six months. Turns out case management is just scheduling the homeless to go to the bank and the store.

So no Andy, it isn't under the subheading of "case management".

Let me know if I can help you with anything else you don't understand.

Let me know if I can help you

Submitted by Andy Axel on Fri, 2010/05/21 - 10:32am.

Let me know if I can help you with anything else you don't understand.

Sure thing, Skippy. I'll keep that on speed dial.

There's a little more to it than that.

Submitted by Robert Finley on Fri, 2010/05/21 - 11:38am.

Turns out case management is just scheduling the homeless to go to the bank and the store.

Andy's on the right track, actually. At our first public conversation, notes from which I posted here, the general case manager job description was fleshed out in a bit more detail.

Case management is about building and maintaining relationship, and this happens in steps.

It begins with an individual’s expression of the desire to leave homelessness.

An individual assessment is performed and the person is matched with a case management. At VMC, the end goal is always housing and becoming a part of the community.

Secure the documents that are necessary for gaining access to housing. This can involve many different kinds of agencies and can be very daunting. case managers help their clients navigate the bureaucracies involved.

Apply for housing. In our community, there’s not a huge supply of appropriate housing. There’s usually a wait, and that lag time is productively used. It lets the case management client relationship build.

Once housing is obtained, case managers help clients get the stuff they need and help them move in and get established.

Case managers help clients to find and get to all of the services they need to help them meet their individual recovery goals and stay successfully housed.

Case managers facilitate basic skills development. These can be related to many different things, such as skills related to successful employment, managing money, healthy diet, etc.

Case managers engage in advocacy on behalf of their clients.

Case managers visit clients often in the client’s apartment. This is a critical component of the ongoing assessment. It lets the case management know immediately if the client is experiencing any kind of issues that might affect his or her ability to remain successfully housed on the path to recovery.

Case managers help clients find people who will help them feel good, have fun, and do things that are interesting and fulfilling. We’re really talking about helping them find and make friends with people who are different from their old associates.

The items in bold are the ones that, I think, relate most directly to addiction therapy and behavioral health services.

Remember, this first public conversation focused primarily on case management as provided by Volunteer Ministry Center in its PSH. Some of the case managers employed by other organizations, like Helen Ross McNabb Center, for example, actually deliver treatment for mental illness and addiction.

Thanks,
Robert Finley
TYP

.

Submitted by Anonymously Nine on Fri, 2010/05/21 - 2:40pm.

"Some of the case managers employed by other organizations, like Helen Ross McNabb Center, for example, actually deliver treatment for mental illness and addiction."

You keep giving the impression that case managers provide addiction therapy. That is where you lost me. That is where you lost many people. And that is exactly why the people had to step in with referendums. They had no choice.

We now understand you don't have a way to pay for real meaningful addiction therapy treatment and you don't have a delivery system either. You have had months to address this and your failure to address it shows us you can't address it. This isn't bad messaging or bad PR. It is the fatal flaw in the Ten Year Plan. And you have shown us in great detail that you will obfuscate this.

This plan deserves to be sent back to the drawing board. I have never seen anything in government like this. Audacious is not the word I think of.

It isn't honest. No one wanted this. But the Ten Year Plan left no options.

The case management plan does

Submitted by fischbobber (not verified) on Sat, 2010/05/22 - 12:17am.

The case management plan does not appear to reach the level outlined in the Ten Year Plan document. According to Dr. Noe it was vital.

It is amazing, that now that

Submitted by whooshe65 on Fri, 2010/05/21 - 7:19am.

It is amazing, that now that the citizens of Knoxville, will have the opportunity to have their opinions HEARD by the City Government by Referendum, the TYP now wants to talk about how the so-called plan was developed 6 years ago.

No community meeting,
No PR firm talking point,
No bias local newspaper story,
No bias local TV News story,
No Inflammatory NIMBY rant,
No non-compassionate argument,
No West against South, or West against North, or West against East rant,
No Rich against Poor,
No Us against Them rant,

Will ever fix the disaster that is, the current Ten Year Plan.

relevancy

Submitted by Bird_dog on Fri, 2010/05/21 - 9:27am.

There are more public hearings than any citizen can keep up with and still have a life. In hindsight, you might wish you had participated, but it didn't seem relevant to your life at the time.

What is scarier than a plan that was developed by people, who did take the time to study the issue, is government by referendum. Popular vote never protects the interests of minorities or disadvantaged citizens. That's why we have representative democracy.

This isn't a government

Submitted by fischbobber (not verified) on Fri, 2010/05/21 - 11:41pm.

This isn't a government function, the TYP groups are private non-profits whose primary source of funding is public money. They were specifically designed to operate outside of the rules pertaining to government, i.e. open records and meetings, and therein lies the rub. The closer one looks the more convoluted the whole thing appears. The Ten Year Plan in and of itself makes a lot of sense, but the day to day operations hardly resemble what is described in the plan.

Huh?

Submitted by Goofytooth (not verified) on Sat, 2010/05/22 - 9:29am.

What do you mean, "the TYP groups are private non-profits whose primary source of funding is public money"? What groups are you talking about? If you mean things like KARM and VMC and the Salvation Army, most of their funding is private donations. You may have some other groups in mind that receive most of their money from taxes. What are they?

None of these groups came to be so they could operate outside the rules. Salvation Army is over a hundred years old. All of them exist to fill gaps and do things government does not do.

SE Housing

Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Sat, 2010/05/22 - 10:15am.

I think his reference is to Southeast Housing Foundation, goofy.

I have no idea whether the "antis" vague allegation that Southeast was formed in a particular manner to circumvent open meetings law is correct.

However, Bill Lyons (I think it was?) indicated previously that citizens' questions concerning the non-profit would be answered in upcoming public meetings.

In fairness to the "antis," then, their question about whether the non-profit is bound to adhere to open meetings law is a valid one, as is their question about whether some other form of development entity might have been formed, instead.

Let's just hear it all?

"I have no idea whether the

Submitted by fischbobber (not verified) on Sun, 2010/05/23 - 3:40pm.

"I have no idea whether the "antis" vague allegation that Southeast was formed in a particular manner to circumvent open meetings law is correct."

Actually they're more observations than allegations. Being a local boy and watching various forms of manipulation and corruption, both illegal and immoral, in this town down through the years has tempered my view of people claiming to do good.

In this specific case, my questions have all come back to Teaberry, since that is the example I have studied most closely. SE housing, supposedly a professional development group, made an offer of three hundred thousand dollars of taxpayer money on a sinkhole at the bottom of a larger geologic hole to serve a group of people defined by their social, physical and mental handicaps. There is no, nor was there ever any plan to have the, infrastructure in place to serve the needs of a handicapped pedestrian facility. In other words, despite the obvious denial of civil rights and violations of the ADA going on here, this plan was proceeding under the false pretense of "helping the homeless". In addition, the site was going to have to be annexed from the city to the county, which means any emergency services were going to be dispatched to the callers jurisdiction, rural metro to the PSH for example , thereby driving service costs through the roof.

When we, the neighborhood members, dared to question this brilliant plan and demanded to know just what the hell was going on here the TYP spokesman got quite pissy, accused me of spreading falsehoods, and Ron Peabody of using inaccurate numbers (despite the fact that Ron was using numbers from the TYP website). Though the focus of our opposition is different in that Ron has an issue with the fuzzy, continually changing numbers and secrecy involved in the budget process while I have issue with the fact that they have abandoned fundamental principles in both the leadership and casework principles laid forth in the original TYP plans as well as producing initial PSH plans that were fundamentally unsound and unsafe for both the neighborhood and PSH residents. There will be no pedestrian infrastructure accompanying any of these plans according to Dr. Lyons and that renders the current PSH strategy unsuitable for a large number of areas in the metro area.

It addition, it appears that the only opposition the administration was prepared to deal with was NIMBY. Virtually every concern we have raised has either been sidestepped, ignored or or written off as Nimby. Until this administration ceases engaging in class warfare and the strategy of pitting one neighborhood against another, I don't see this impasse changing.

A written apology to both myself and Ron Peabody published in the News Sentinel acknowledging that we were right and that there will be an open books policy adopted by the non-profits involved (expenses as well as incoming grants), as well as a change in the city policy on pedestrian infrastructure (including sidewalks and spurs to the green ways), and a return to the total approach to case working these residences ( psychiatric nurses, lawyers, medical professionals as well as social workers) to insure that they are successful, and making sure that future plans had easy access to affordable sources of food and public transportation as stated in the PSH guidelines, and finally we want both neighborhoods and local churches to be involved in all stages of planning any future homeless projects as is stated in Dr. Noe's original Ten Year Plan to end homelessness. In short, we want the people involved in this project to get off their dead asses, quit making excuses and handing out double talk, and do their jobs. And we want a way to double check and make sure that is what is happening. Because it's not happening now.

Bob Fischer

Knoxvillians won't vote on it

Submitted by Rachel on Fri, 2010/05/21 - 12:27pm.

Knoxvillians won't vote on it unless Peabody gets enough sigatures on his petition.

And I'm with Bird_dog on governing by referendum. Look what a mess it's gotten California into.

.

Submitted by Anonymously Nine on Fri, 2010/05/21 - 2:25pm.

"And I'm with Bird_dog on governing by referendum. Look what a mess it's gotten California into.

But you really loved the Charter Amendment referendums. How so very convenient. We know what the word is that describes that.

Enough government

Submitted by whooshe65 on Sat, 2010/05/22 - 7:42am.

Enough government manipulation.

Let the People Vote.
Go to: stopthetyp@gmail.com and voluteer to help collect signitures.

Peobody said on TV that they will refile the corrected petitions on Monday, and Bob Bowman from the Election Board said that they will meet by Friday to approve the changes.

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