Tue
Mar 16 2010
07:05:am
So the mayor and others get pay increases while county department heads look to cut their budgets by 4-8 percent.
Do they work extra hard, tirelessly devote themselves to a particular exercise regimen, or maybe take special diet supplements to achieve this, or are they just naturally supple enough to keep fitting their feet in their mouths two at a time?
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Have you checked the SuperChamber salaries yet?
They throw money around like monopoly money at the SuperChamber with solid six figure salaries, 40(k)s, cars, perks, insurance (they asked for bonuses this year) and they do absolutely nothing except provide political commentary on everything happening everywhere. They do a fine job of recruiting nothing to Knoxville and Knox County, they are vetted by no one, they are accountable to no one, and they absence of a legitimate business and industry recruiting organization is why Knoxville and Knox County are in the economic mess with few for profit employers (other than retail) and nobody but Pilot and the bank of their choice to sponsor events in and around the community.
BOO!
That's all.
Call me crazy, but the folks
Call me crazy, but the folks who took on additional job responsibilities deserved raises. Would you take on the work of two people if you weren't offered a raise?
in this economy, many workers
in this economy, many workers are taking on lots of additional responsibilities (those who manage to not be laid off, that is) just to keep their jobs. why should knox county government jobs be different?
"why should knox county
"why should knox county government jobs be different?"
Required by law?
From the Charter of Knox County
Sec. 3.04. Mayor--Term, qualifications, compensation.
The Mayor shall be elected by the qualified voters of Knox County each four (4) years, commencing with the 1990 County general election, and shall take office on September 1 following his/her election. The Mayor shall be twenty-five (25) years of age or older, a resident of Knox County at least one (1) year prior to filing for this office and shall remain a resident of Knox County during his/her term of office. The Mayor's compensation shall be set by the Commission which compensation shall be greater than the compensation paid any other elected County official. Such compensation shall be paid in equal monthly installments. The salary of the Mayor may be changed from time to time by resolution of the Commission; provided, however, that such compensation shall not be decreased during the term for which the Mayor was elected; and, provided further, the Commission shall take no action changing the Mayor's salary for any succeeding term of the Mayor during the year in which the Mayor is to be elected.
(Ref. of 8-6-04)
"The salary of the Mayor may
"The salary of the Mayor may be changed from time to time by resolution of the Commission"
Dwight, Did the increase in salary of the Mayor by 4 percent come to the Commission in the form of a resolution and vote?
The wording is fascinating,
The wording is fascinating, isn't it? If any County employee's salary increases beyond the Mayor's salary, the Mayor's must be increased. Right?
It really does not work that
It really does not work that way. You can not pay any other employee more than the Mayor.
Although if memory serves correctly, a Trustee employee paid himself $ 200,000 last year!
Can we all please have a raise?
Some salaries are set by the Mayor’s draws. The Law director is an example. Lockett is paid $1 less than the Mayor’s salary. Ragsdale just caused Bill Lockett to get a raise.
Time for a change of players?
Lockett?
I thought Bill Lockett, the second highest paid elected official in the county, received a raise within the last few months (at whose direction, I don't know)?
My assumption was that it was this raise that triggered the mayor's raise?
LD salary linked to judges
My (poor) memory was that, as LD, that position has to be a higher salary than the judges...
Impetus was judicial payraise?
Ah, I wasn't aware of that. So maybe a judicial payraise triggered first Lockett's then Ragsdale's raises?
If that's the case, we do seem to have something of a runaway train on our hands...with respect to the chief executive's salary, I mean.
lawn mower guy
You might ask Alan the neighborhood lawn mower guy. I have seen you post that he is more qualified than the republican candidates, and you are probably right. Joe the plumber might be better than the two republican candidates.
I am telling you. He will
I am telling you. He will work for a case of Mickey's Big Mouths a day. That's it.
Does the Mayor own property, and reside, in Knox County?
"shall remain a resident of Knox County during his/her term of office."
just wondering if he pays property taxes...
I'm not following this. The
I'm not following this. The KNS article says the Mayor's salary is determined by a formula set by the state, but Knox is a home-rule county, and Mr. Van de Vate quoted the Charter.
The Charter says the Mayor must earn more than any other elected official. KNS reports several salary increases for appointed officials, none of whom make anywhere near what the Mayor makes, so whose salary bumped up the Mayor's salary?
Self gratification
Who, would be the more appropriate question.
It never came before commission to be voted on.
"The Mayor's compensation shall be set by the Commission which compensation shall be greater than the compensation paid any other elected County official. Such compensation shall be paid in equal monthly installments. The salary of the Mayor may be changed from time to time by resolution of the Commission"
STFU!
Quit whining and eat your crumbs and gruel and be thankful you have them!!
Call me crazy, but the folks
Rachel, over at the KNS, I made the same observation about raises given employees Grant Rosenberg and Debra Young. I thought the article explained fully how they'd earned them (and Rosenberg's raise, as the article explained, still resulted in a salary less than what was paid to the employee whose duties he is to assume).
I thought (and said) that the article didn't explain quite as fully why raises had been given to some other employees and I conceded that I didn't know whether Knox has the ability to change the reiteration in our charter of this state law requiring "automatic" raises to the county mayor.
Of course, there's never any middle ground in the KNS comment threads and they all piled on...
I believe that the NS made an
I believe that the NS made an error and transposed someone else's salary line with Rosenberg's, resulting in a significant lowballing of his salary figures.
And where I've worked, when downsizing occurs as a result of hard times, employees take on extra duties with no additional compensation, and are glad to do it, considering the alternative. But that's in the real world where there's no such thing as an unlimited pot of money, and where folks are generally hired, retained and promoted on the basis of merit, not who they know.
And, upon re-reading what I just wrote, this is not meant to be an insult to Rachel, or even to Grant. It's just the way things are in business v government work.
Cue my public flogging as a "Ragsdale apologist" but...
...my differing perspective really has more to do with the decisions I've witnessed my husband's employer make over the last two years.
Two or more years back, the Christmas bonuses disappeared, then the "picnic" disappeared from the "company picnic" (instead we all began showing up at Dollywood on the appointed date and wander around searching for one another).
This past year, the defined benefit pension plan that I'd cautioned him was obsolete, certainly in this economy, also disappeared. His employer staged two rounds of layoffs, the first one sweeping and the second one smaller.
This employer still extended modest payraises in January to those they'd been able to keep on board.
I tend to think that if any employer hasn't made enough cuts--of whatever type--to adequately take care of the employees they'll keep, then they haven't made enough cuts.
Cosby
As for government, we're their employer. That's why any vote other than Cosby is a waste of time. That is unless we should believe one of the Tim's will excel at bean counting as mayor.
I believe that the NS made an
I believe that the NS made an error and transposed someone else's salary line with Rosenberg's, resulting in a significant lowballing of his salary figures.
Then what is the actual #?
I know a little bit about what Grant did and now does. I grant that people everywhere are having to take on more work with downsizing (geez, that was going on at TVA even before I left and that was 13 years ago. When I left I was supervising 40 people in 7 different geographic locations for roughly the same salary the guy who hired me made for supervising the 5 people he could see from his desk).
Nevertheless, I do believe that the additional job responsibilities Grant assumed warranted a raise.
Why Grant Rosenburg ?
Why was Grant given these additional responsibilities? Who had the job before and why did they stop doing it? Were the duties of this position taken away from someone for some reason? Sounds strange.
according to the linked story
...Grant Rosenberg...was head of the Office of Neighborhoods but was given control over the Community Services Office when Erik Hoglund left for a job with the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development...Van de Vate said Rosenberg's job actually combines three positions if the unfilled post of former Senior Director of Community Services Cynthia Finch is taken into account...
...of course, some might posit that senior director of community services is a post not in obvious need of filling...
Why?
Thanks for the information.
Even if you take Cynthia out
Even if you take Cynthia out of the equation, Grant is now doing his old job + Erik's. A raise under those circumstances is not an outrageous idea.
Combined City of Knoxville salaries?
That database Betty brought to our attention says that the correct salary figure for Grant Rosenberg, after the payraise, is $72,900.59 for heading the two departments.
I'd be pretty surprised if we were to learn that that is an amount less than the combined salaries of the City of Knoxville's Director of Community Development (Madeline Rogero) and Director of Neighborhoods (David Massey)--with no offense intended to either of these, of course.
I'd be pretty surprised if we
I'd be pretty surprised if we were to learn that that is an amount less than the combined salaries of the City of Knoxville's Director of Community Development (Madeline Rogero) and Director of Neighborhoods (David Massey)--
You think Madeline and David together make less than $72k??
Guess again. According to the WBIR database (which lists the top 10% of city and county employees) Madeline makes almost $107k.
Oops
I said:
Meant to say that I'd be surprised to learn Grant's salary is more than these two.
I've had an "off" coupla days, haven't I?
Jeeze, Louise. Oranges and
Jeeze, Louise.
Oranges and bananas.
Care to compare Grant's resume' and job responsibilities to Madeline's, or David's? Or the city's Community Development Department and Office of Neighborhoods to its county counterparts?
Can't...
...but I wouldn't take offense if you filled me in?
These are the same job titles, so how do the city's two job descriptions differ from the county's two (one now, presumably)?
(I haven't lived inside the city for nearly 20 years--and probably couldn't have answered this question then.)
But that's in the real world
But that's in the real world where there's no such thing as an unlimited pot of money, and where folks are generally hired, retained and promoted on the basis of merit, not who they know.
Not to be rude, but baloney to that last bit. Bureaucracies are the same, be they corporate or government.
If the survival of your
If the survival of your business depends on your staffing decisions, you might be more inclined to hire someone based on what they can do for your business than because of the fraternity to which they belong. Maybe not always, but I'd say there'sfar more of that in the courthouse than in businesses with which I am familiar. Less room for error.
Snark Bite
Knox County Mayor to Headline 'Big Egos' Festival
Mayor Ragsdale uses next week's performance to justify pay boost
From APB reports. KNOXVILLE - Knox County Mayor Mike Ragsdale announced last year that administration employees would endure a salary freeze, but after records revealed his salary had increased from $148,525 to $154,321, county officials announced that the "entertainment value" Ragsdale provided to the county justified the increase...
More on what triggered mayor's payraise
It looks like BirdDog's and my hazy recollections on links among judges', the law director's, and the mayor's salaries were on target.
First came the September 2009 KNS story on Lockett's earlier raise, which explains that his payrate "is tied to the pay of Circuit Court and Chancery Court judges, whose salaries are set by the Legislature" and that "when the judges' salaries go up, the elected law directors' salaries go up at the same rate." KNS said then that Lockett's pay was raised from $148,524 for the 2009 fiscal year to $154,320 for 2010, here:
(link...)
Actually, I later recalled that Mello had sent me a copy of the Private Act stipulating this pay plan some months ago, which also ran in the KNS, here:
(link...)
And of course Dwight posted the local charter's reiteration of instruction originating in the state's Private Act, in his link above.
Finally, we see in Scott's original post the KNS story on the mayor's recent raise, which says Ragsdale's pay has now been raised from $148,525 to $154,321 (each figure $1 higher than the law director's former and current salaries), here:
(link...)
So...that's how it happened.
One last thought (a disclaimer)
I said earlier...
...but of course my assumption was that the mayor's office will also be arriving at cuts of 4-8% in their department.
On just re-reading the recent KNS story Scott posted, though, I really don't see any mention of it one way or the other.
Has anyone asked, specifically, whether the mayor will make 4-8% cuts in operational and/or personnel costs in his department?
I believe that the NS made an
Look it up yourself:
(link...)
Pretty serious fact error.
Now that you mention it, Betty...
...I didn't quite understand (and still don't) where Dwight got this $58,000 savings (per the KNS story):
Maybe he'll happen by to explain?
(EDIT: Never mind. It's the difference between Hoglund's $70K and Rosenberg's $12K increase, as Hoglund won't be replaced. Will Rosenberg gain support staff assistance, though?)
I tried looking up Ragsdale's
I tried looking up Ragsdale's pay but the search by name is in no particualar order and I didn't really want to scroll through 2,413 names. In the job drop-down there was no mayor job listed.
error
Bbeanster,
The figure I used for Grant Rosenberg's salary in the article is one I got from Human Resources Director Frances Fogerson. It is, as you noted, different from the amount listed in the database, which we didn't receive until after the article ran. I will ask Frances about the difference and either put it in another article or run a correction. As you know, the information a reporter uses is only as good as the information provided. In this case it appears the county provided inaccurate information.
In the future, please contact me or my editors if you spot a factual error in one of my articles (or any knoxnews or KNS article, for that matter). I want to make sure our readers get accurate information. I haven't been at work since Tuesday so if you have done this already, I apologize.
Scott Barker
KNS
Scott, I've been busy trying
Scott, I've been busy trying to make a buck and figured someone had already pointed this out to you by now.
I posted this here because it is germane to this discussion, which specifically references Grant's salary.
Ragsdale sentiment
Ragsdale sentiment notwithstanding, I wouldn't take that job for twice the salary. I doubt you'd find many CEOs in the business world heading up a $600 million operation who would.
I'm amazed that Ragsdale
I'm amazed that Ragsdale makes around $160,000, if this is his salary.
fallacy
Ragsdale sentiment notwithstanding, I wouldn't take that job for twice the salary. I doubt you'd find many CEOs in the business world heading up a $600 million operation who would.
Folks -- the mistake made here (and by Ragsdale himself) is that he's actually in charge of a $600 million operation. He's the chief fiscal officer for a county where almost $400 million goes straight to schools and other huge chunks are managed by elected officials, such as the Sheriff.
The Ragsdale-generated title "mayor" notwithstanding, the county mayor's job is really little more than a bully pulpit and management of a few folks on the 6th Floor -- and he's not done that very well. -- s.
On the other hand...
Point taken, Sandra.
However, the school system's and sheriff's autonomy notwithstanding, the county mayor still supervises about 26 departments and nearly 1000 people.
And he personally produces that $600 million budget, whether or not he personally administers it, too.
That's a CEO position.
Well, when you put it that
Well, when you put it that way.
error
Correction on Rosenberg's salary will run tomorrow. Entirely my fault, too, so Frances is off the hook.
Scott Barker
KNS
Commission's cuts
County Commissioners have ideas for how to smallen the budget, which they'll talk about at today's meeting.
Is the sector plan with Midway going to get reviewed today, too? Could be an interesting meeting - and long.
Some agenda items
Putting Hillcrest on notice, a resolution supporting New Covenant Baptist Church in its tax woes, juvenile court security supervision and ousting Scoobie from the zoning appeal board are among the items under consideration by commission today.
some outcomes
Hillcrest gets an extension, New Covenant Baptist Church gets a nonbinding resolution, school boards gets possible zoning changes and Lumpy gets a time out.
more snark
County Mulls Shrinking Employees to Fit Smaller Budget
"Cutting the rank-and-file down to size by shrinking them 10 percent could realize vast cost savings," says administration official
From APB reports. KNOXVILLE - In a meeting today between officials of Knox County Mayor Mike Ragsdale's administration and Knox County Commissioners, Chief Financial Officer John Troyer recommended shrinking all employees by 10 percent to fit next year's smaller projected budget. Reactions to the proposal were generally positive, as long as the shrinkage was shared across the board...
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