Clearly, TDC has been clearing the brush in preparation for another big push and has been doing their homework.

I don't understand the concept of 'safeguards' and 'controls' to prevent the catastrophic shutdown of the wastewater treatment system. Unless you utterly bar certain industries from the park (e.g., make it only an office/tech park), you would either need a sophisticated and expensive monitoring system, or the (cough, cough) honor system?

How much soil is 'enough' to filter the wastewater before it hits the karst and potentially goes straight into the wells? I only know about one other state, and they require 48".

The question continues to beg itself- what tenants? Will this be another expensive boondoggle? The transportation/sprawl issue would seem to mesh with this as well- why would a company want to locate in such a remote area if their employees still had a 30-minute commute to work in heavy traffic? TDC's fight to keep the area open to any kind of development implies that the tenant strategy isn't really targeted, but they need to unload the land on the County.

Tourism destination / hotels seem like a more viable approach- what is the feeling of the residents about that kind of development?

Great stuff, Rachel. Thanks.

Did I miss when this changed from Midway Industrial Park to Midway Business Park?

This kind of system is sometimes used for things such as strip malls. Mr. Hines says he has three permitted in east Tennessee.

The implication here seems to be that he got three permitted for strip malls.
Is that the case? My impression from speaking with Mr. Hines a few years ago was that he was involved primarily in residential projects.

Regardless, there is a big difference between a business park and a strip mall. Did you ask him if there was any "light manufacturing" at these strip malls? Any "truck washing"?

Mr. Hines expects no difficulty with obtaining a permit.

If TDEC gives a permit for this large of a system in this kind of Karst environment without mandating designs that PREVENT discharge of either pathogens or toxins into the water table (i.e. a zero discharge system) then they will be violating the Clean Water Act and vulnerable to citizen lawsuits.

A citizen suit could tie this whole project up for a long time.

To avoid all this mess, why don't we consider alternatives that the community can agree to?

The system will only handle domestic strength wastes. This will obviously limit the tenants that TDC can recruit. Todd Napier of TDC said he did not expect this to be a problem in recruiting tenants.

Has TDC provided a list of any similarly on-site sewered Business Parks and their ability to meet projections of jobs/acre? How have they done at attract new tenants and retaining existing ones?

If they haven't, they need to. Otherwise we are betting millions of hard earned taxpayer dollars on one man's "I do not expect."

Rachel: I, too, appreciate your concern and your obvious effort to sort this out. Call me a cynic, but I believe this is driven by homebuilders, Realtors, etc. who want the beautiful countryside of East Knox County open for residential and strip mall construction. More of the same, but it requires sewers. Give them the zoning and if TDC accidentially happens to recruit a business prospect that needs a sewer plant, well, watch the tumblers fall into place to site it on the French Broad.

Otherwise, you'd just put a business park in the Hardin Valley/Karns area where there is synergy with Oak Ridge, Blount County, etc. and infrastructure in place. -- s.

One thing I left out of my summary.

I've been confused about sugarfatpies' references to injection wells, but didn't want to post about it until I understood better.

If I understand correctly, injection wells (class IV, class V, or otherwise) are not germane to the discussion.

Injection well permits are necessary, for example, when one is injecting water into a sinkhole. We've had two cases I can think of since I came on MPC where developers were using sinkholes to dispose of stormwater, and thus required an injection well permit.

(Injection well permits may also be required if one is injecting a point source directly into the groundwater, but not through sinkholes. Not sure.)

In any case, what TDC is planning for Midway is NOT to inject the end product of sewage treatment into sinkholes. Rather, the plan to stay AWAY from the sinkholes. The treated end product will NOT be a point source; it will be dispersed into the dirt of the property either by drip or spray (probably drip). As I said it my KV post, this requires a State Water Quality Operating Permit, not an injection well permit.

Are there wells below the septic system? I believe the topographic maps shows there are. Common sense would prevail that any failure of the septic system, which has been covered in detail by Alex, would result in contamination of well water.

Is MPC going to parse that?

I am against this plan. Here's why. Apologies for length.

I am a geologist by training, having 3 degrees (BS, MS, and PhD) in geology with specialization in subsurface hydrogeology (ie, water flow and contaminant migration). The underlying limestone rocks contain numerous natural fractures and bedding planes, some of which are enlarged due to the influence of infiltrating rainwater. This is referred to as “karst” topography. Typically, the proportion of enlarged cavitites is very small and on the order of a few percent of the subsurface media. Because water flow is slow through most of the media, and because of the relatively large size of solution channels, however, these channels conduct water flow (and contaminant movement) very quickly, and contaminant migration from surface to groundwater can be nearly instantaneous in the large channels in karst aquifers. This leads rapidly to contamination of groundwater aquifers once a release has occurred.

Thus, I am extremely concerned with the idea that a septic sewage system will be used for waste water and solid waste disposal at the site. Having a relatively “thick” soil profile, as mentioned in various MPC documents, is quite meaningless, because water, contaminants, pharmaceuticals, medical radionuclides, and pathogens (e.g., E. coli) will move very quickly through any soil profile present. A mere 48” of soil, for example, has a very short residence time for contamination given the scale of the proposed system (serving around 2000 people). And unfortunately there is very little doubt that there are solution cavities in the aquifer beneath the soil profile at the site. Consequently there is little doubt that nearby wells, and even not-so-nearby wells, could be contaminated, particularly during large storms where large volumes of water are flushed into the subsurface. There are literally hundreds of scientific papers published over the last 40 years supporting these basic and well-known facts. I know because I have read a good many of them. I will be glad to discuss this further with you at your convenience (and mine), so please don’t hesitate to ask if I can be of any assistance to you.

If the MPC were interested in refuting these significant environmental claims, they could provide a geophysical survey of the area which would elucidate the thickness of the soil profile and the presence (or absence) of any subsurface cavities in the underlying rocks. The fact that MPC has not allayed these concerns suggests that either they do not want to know what really underlies the site, or they are ignorant of the actual consequences of contamination from large-scale septic systems in karst topography. It is notable that there are no such septic systems in the entire state of TN, despite the fact that a good deal of the area around Nashville, for instance, is also cited in karst topography.

Companies considering (re)locating to this site will not hesitate to consider these facts. No business wants to locate somewhere that is unsustainable, particularly in the current economic climate.

This effort is costing a lot of money and will cost a lot more in the future. This is especially true if Knox Co is suddenly “on the hook” for damages due to groundwater contamination. What if we have to build water supply lines, as was done for the contamination of groundwater in the *Burnett Creek area in South Knoxville? Have we already forgotten the missteps there?

*A quick refresher on Burnett Creek contamination, as it is particularly relevant here. Redevelopment of the Coster Shop site liberated large quantities of creosote, lead, and asbestos contaminated materials. A coalition between the City of Knoxville, KCDC, Barge, Waggoner, Sumner & Cannon, Inc. (BWS&C), S&ME, and Burnett Demolition and Salvage was formed, and the result was unregulated disposal of tons of contaminated materials to several residential sites. One of these was a sinkhole in south Knoxville on private property in karst topography. A number of area wells became contaminated shortly thereafter, and a huge investigation and a number of lawsuits ensued. A dye trace in the sinkhole was used to verify if the sinkhole was the source of contamination. Burnett Creek, which is located approximately strike-parallel approximately 1 mile away, was red with dye within 72 hours from the start of dye trace. This indicates how quickly karst systems can convey contamination. Burnett Creek was located very near the Lafollette farm, which had contaminated well water but did not have detectable dye in their well. Dyes were not detected above detection limit in any water supply wells. Contamination of residential wells typically occurs sporadically during storm events and it is difficult to reproduce exact conditions leading to well contamination. Notably, the original contamination events occurred during the wet season, while the dye trace was in the dry season. Wet season tends to spread contamination rapidly, and different pathways in the subsurface exist during dry season.

One can argue about the extent of culpability of the 5 parties in the Coster Shop coalition, and the lawsuits have long been settled. But the costs and time involved were significant: $250K for TDEC sampling and tests, $1 million for water line + 1 year to install it, $12 mil lawsuit by landowners Reagan, Black, Wheat, $256 mil class-action lawsuit by 72 citizens affected in Burnett Creek area, and $800K in cleanup costs. These figures are not fully up to date since various lawsuits have been resolved and I do not know the end cost. Regardless, if the Thorn Grove community’s wells become contaminated, Knox Co taxpayers will be on the hook to fight the lawsuits and to pay the settlements.

If anyone can fill me in on how the meeting works tomorrow I would appreciate it. I am busy and don't have time to go but am considering going anyway.

Would they give me time to speak?

Would it do any good?

Thanks.

I received a response from Mr. Bart Carey, below in quotes. I have looked at Mr Hines website as referenced below and do not find any useful information there. It is essentially a resume website.

The discussion above however suggest that these systems have been used for 3 strip malls by Mr Hines. I am not sure that the scale truly compares to the current one. I would need a lot more details to have confidence in this. And there are other reasons not to vote for this sector plan change.

"Mike Hines is and environmental
engineer that has designed dozens of waste water systems and is fully qualified to advise us on this issue. The system that has been proposed and would be managed by KUB is not a septic system that drips septic effluent into the ground but instead is designed to first treat the effluent with conventional treatment methods and then redistribute the purified effluent back into the soil only in areas where the soil profile meets the state standards. I have probably butchered this description but Mike Hines could talk to you on your level and fully explain the system.
The bottom line is that no water going into the ground would have contaminants.
Thanks for your concern and involvement in this important Knox County issue.
You can learn more at:

(link...)
"

I agree, Mr Hines should be there.

A cursory look-see at Mr Hines and his company finds that it appears to be a small local company without a real website. I find no details of any successful (or otherwise) wastewater systems. This makes me very nervous.

Alex -- your point is well-taken. More importantly, Mr Hines' company will likely be on the receiving end of the contract for this system. I suggest that we first and foremost demand his company be bonded and insured at the level of (probably) tens of millions of dollars. This will keep Knox Co from being left holding the bag if the system fails.

Rachel, I agree, and am very pleased with Mr Carey's response. He has a degree in plant/soil sciences and had a good understanding of the issue. NOt that a degree is necessary. Unfortunately he will not attend the meeting tomorrow either.

An overview of these types of systems at EPA.gov shows that exactly like the typical homeowner's system, they require maintenance and monitoring, otherwise they can fail and potentially contaminate groundwater. I still see this as a big risk. We tend to think we can engineer our way out of everything. More often than not, reality does not support this world view.

This whole thing today boils down to two words, "Trust Us".

In the court case MPC was proven to have violated its own rules. Why trust MPC?

This is fixed. Will the daily paper call today's vote "Black Thursday"? Or will it print a small story hidden in the Business Section about a new sector plan being approved?

I'm rather stressed at the moment (and not primarily from Midway either), and I probably will regret posting this, but here goes.

I have spent goodness knows how many hours studying the Midway issue. I've read every document I can get my hands on, asked a bunch of questions, and read every email I've received, pro or con.

I've tried to share what I learned on KV, and use this forum to learn from folks who are interested in this issue.

In the course of that, I've had to listen to people accuse the body I serve on of all kinds of villianous things - collusion, duplicity, dishonesty, underhandedness, and being disingenuous to name a few (and that doesn't count all the stuff #9 has said; I don't read him anymore so god knows what nonsense he's spouted).

I have to go vote on what to me is a difficult issue, knowing that however I decide, I will p**s some people off.

And for the privilege of all that, I get paid exactly nothing.

I'm not looking for sympathy; I knew what the job was when I took it. But some of you would be well-advised to keep all this in mind when talking with Commissioners. We're human beings, trying to do the best we know how. It's difficult to listen to your message when you're hitting us over the head with a brick.

Seems to me this thing comes down to a few simple questions:

What is the evidence that this project promotes jobs and economic development?

What is the evidence that this project has environmental issues that could affect is success or failure, impact the local aquifer and expose stakeholders to liability?

What is the evidence that this project promotes sustainable, managed growth?

What is the evidence that the community wants this project?

What is the evidence that the projected job and economic benefits outweigh the foregoing concerns?

What is the evidence that alternative uses could promote jobs and economic development while addressing the foregoing concerns?

Most of the MPC Commissioners seem to have lost sight of why they are sitting in those seats. Not all of them, just some that have become high & mighty in their own minds. Watch the ones that TALK DOWN to the people that they disagree with at the meetings.

It has been pointed out that the MPC has gone rogue on several issues lately. Even against the direction of the Knox County Commission. Remember that commercial landscaping Resolution they ignored? The MPC tried to impose their will and lost that one thanks to our elected Commissioners. Knox County belongs to the people of Knox County. Not to a handpicked few.

The Mayors decide who sits in those seats. Yet nobody knows how or why they are chosen to make such important decisions for us. Or against us.

The Knox County Commission is in place because they were voted into place by the people. They are held accountable for the votes they cast. Let us hope that they see what is really happening at Midway and stop it.

Mike Carberry got up and said something to the effect that developing Karst areas is unavoidable because its everywhere.

This was then repeated by one of the commissioners.

If you take the time to look at a map(even the decorative map on the wall of the meeting room) you will see how untrue this is.

Here's one for starters
(link...)

According to this map Midway is in the most Karstic (red) area ever proposed for this type of dense industrial development in Knox county.

There are plenty of other areas that are not in Karst terrain.

There's a lot of revisionist history being propagated about people in the Ritta Community, a good bit of it coming from the business "community." Art Clancey and John King's disparaging remarks about those folks were hard to listen to without throwing something at my TV.
Victor Jernigan, the Murphy Road/Washington Pike/McCampbell Road developer who came in, promised to build the most progressive, pedestrian-friendly (throw in any/all other currently-popular new urbanist buzzwords here) community imaginable, was in reality ridiculously over-leveraged and fast and loose with the truth.
His first step was to sweet talk the late John Paul Babelay, a very fine man who was in his 90s, into turning over his massive real estate holdings to Jernigan. Victor used to like to brag that Johnny Babelay had "entrusted" him with his property.
He also got hold of the old LeCoultre farm next to the McMillan farm, and anyone who reads the paper is familiar with the McMillans' struggles to protect their land and water supply from the upstream damage that resulted.
Jernigan also attempted to buy the 150-year-old Oak Grove AME Church, which has a graveyard attached, so he could control the Mill Road intersection. Church members have told me what he was promising, and thank goodness they didn't buy it, because they would have sold their heritage for a mess of pottage. I drive by there on the way to my Mamma's and it makes me smile to see everybody in their Sunday finery. These are my neighbors, the people I grew up knowing and the thought of them not being there anymore because they were in the way Jernigan's plans makes me cry. And cuss.
This is a fight about stuff money cannot buy, on one side, anyhow.
He cut a deal with the city to be annexed, in return for $850K to reimburse him for road improvements, thus hastening annexation for those who live in close proximity (and, yes, it's inside the urban growth boundary, so annexation would have come eventually -- just not as soon as now with all of the former Jernigan land sitting there). The road improvements never got done, but the annexation stands and Jernigan's creditors are fighting over his carcass.
Jernigan's failures are his own. His neighbors, who were there long before he ever cast his eye on the land, are collateral damage, not the cause of his problems.

Interesting that Commissioner Nate Kelly voted no. He is a UT Political Science professor appointed recently by Haslam and a smart guy. I have heard that he has a good relationship with Lyons.

Congratulations to Rachel. My compliment will likely surprise no one more than Rachel as we haven't always agreed and sometimes disagree strongly, but even when we disagree, I like to think we both care about our community. I appreciate all your hard work on a very difficult issue. I also think Rachel's point about MPC Commissioners being human beings is apt. We expect so much from everyone and all too often it doesn't seem as if we want to credit anyone who disagrees with us for any decent motive or behavior. That is a shame. I feel as if Rachel deserves this compliment and I hope people will keep this in mind.