I just saw an amazing documentary called "Outrage"
Its about the tactic of outing closeted politicians who support anti-queer policies and legislation.
Top of the doc's list of politicians needing a good outing:
Gov. Charlie Crist (FL)
Rep. Ed Schrock (VA)
Rep. David Dreier (CA)
Rep. James McCrery (LA)
Watching the documentary you come away pretty convinced that these politicians are all closeted homosexuals.
I found particularly fascinating the recounting of the mindset of the closeted homosexual politician. It goes something like this: "I'm a stronger queer because I am closeted. Straight people don't need to make a point of their sexuality, so why should I? Queers who come out are weak, because they have to make a point of their sexuality."
Also informative was the recounting by previously closeted gay politicians of how psychologically damaging staying in the closet is when you are a politician. How can you think you are strong when you support policies that hurt you and your lovers?
It has often been said that if every closeted queer came out, the anti-queer movement would be over immediately.
Bringing that topic back home, I wonder what the impact would be of more outing in TN, or just Knox county? Would hate crimes like the TVUUC shooting, which according to the shooter was in no small part motivated by an anti-queer agenda, become less common?
There are a few different rationales for outing. Which one do you agree with?
1. Hypocrites only, and only when they actively oppose gay rights and interests;
2. Outing passive accomplices who help run homophobic institutions;
3. Prominent individuals whose outing would shatter stereotypes and compel the public to reconsider its attitude on homosexuality;
4. Only the dead.
Personally I'm for 1 and 2.
3 seems almost pointless in this day and age.
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While I agree with you on
While I agree with you on the hypocrisy, I don't see anything to be gained by "outing" people who choose to keep their sexual orientation a private matter. Better to attack the policy, not the person.
Then you are missing the
Then you are missing the point about hypocrisy.
In the words of Barney Frank, himself a closeted gay politician for the first 15 years of his career: "I think there's a right to privacy. But the right to privacy should not be a right to hypocrisy. And people who want to demonize other people shouldn't then be able to go home and close the door and do it themselves."
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
Two words: Roy Cohn.
Two words: Roy Cohn.
Although I know
Although I know that I might be blasted for this comment, you have to understand that most people on here are considered blue democrats. With that said, many people, particularly the "Religious Right" vote based on "values." (I am not arguing for or against that by the way). Nonetheless, many feel that a person's sexual preference does influence their way of handling political policy, and I think their opinions should be respected as well.
So how would you say that
So how would you say that Larry Craig's or Charlie Crist's sexuality has influenced his handling of policy?
Also, on what do you base your claim that most people on Knoxviews are "blue democrats" by which I assume you mean conservative "Blue Dog" Democrats.
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
Take 90min and watch
"It has often been said that if every closeted queer came out, the anti-queer movement would be over immediately."
If the majority of Republicans knew how the Log Cabin and C-Streeters actually ran their Party, the Republican Party would be over immediately.
Any Democrat who fails to watch this documentary, will never fully understand their competition. The hate isn't hate for hates sake - it's source in many instances is self loathing. There is a reason a lot of their pabulum is counterintuitive to logic.
Karl Rove's dad and Ken Mehlman: both gay
(link...)
One of the points made over and over in Outrage is that DC is probably the most queer city in the US, and most are closeted.
Although I wouldn't say this is true of all closeted queer folk, various people in Outrage describe DC's particular slice of the queer community as "perfect staffers". Usually no kids or real family commitments, and plenty of ambition (perhaps driven by some complex self-hatred thing which I don't really understand).
So if you want to say that the GOP is run by queers (which I think is probably an overstatement) its worth noting that the Democratic party is most likely in the same boat.
One potential difference, at least for liberal dems, is the greater acceptance of queerness, which might make less people feel the need to stay closeted, and perhaps less inclined toward perverse self-hating anti-queer policies. This would not be true for Blue Dogs, as our local perveyor of blue-doggedness (JHayes) reminded me above.
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
Not the majority, but enough to be useful
Sorry for the confusion. I'm not attempting to state the C-Street Bunch and Log Cabin Wing is the majority, I would guess that they're a small percentage. It's more about how the majority uses them.
Churches all around these parts are full of people to chicken shit to stand up in the middle of church and denounce homosexuality and point out the offenders. But, they don't mind getting their government representatives to do it. And most in this area are glad to take the message (that was whispered to them) and promote it during campaign season - which appears now is always.
But even these elected politicians don't want to take a public, national, stance of bigotry toward their fellow man and women. So they use this small percentage, that at all cost must keep their secrets, to carry out the hateful legislation. Who better to march out than Larry Craig when it came time to feign the outrage of Clinton's "bad boy" behavior. Who else was going to do it, Ensign or Sanford?.., DOH!
As long the GOP core lets these tools hang around as tools, they don't mind being used as tools. Glad it's only a problem for DC...
Relevant at the local level?
I am trying to imagine what a City or County politician could do with regard to gay rights issues that would constitute hypocrisy. There are certainly Republicans here who wouldn't have had their political careers had they been outed, but I don't know that they've ever been put in the position of working for or against an issue that would matter to the gay community. Or maybe I just don't know. What's a gay local issue?
First of all its not only
First of all its not only about politicians (see below) but to your point..
How about support for the Tennessee Marriage Protection Amendment?
(link...)
This amendment was supported by most prominent republicans in Knox county.
It was also supported by the Catholic Diocese of Knoxville and many protestant churches.
Anyone remember a certain former Bishop of Knoxville who went on to Palm Beach, FL, only to be forced to resign in 2002 for seducing male students at the seminary he used to head in MO?
(link...)
Also, how about censoring LGBT websites from Knox county school computers?
(link...)
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
I'm sold
I'm sold. 1 & 2. Out 'em.
In light of the recent Anglican bigot outreach initiative, can we add every gay Catholic priest to the list?
Getting government out of the bedroom is the start
The homophobia a church has is more a problem for their organization and their members. No one is forced to go to church or hang around bigots if they choose not to.
We don’t have the same luxury of choice with our government.
Like I said above, let the church members and church leaders deal with church issues. The ideal would be when some nut job darkens the doorway of any government office and proclaims he/she has all the answers to what people should and shouldn’t be doing in their bedrooms, that nut job would be laughed at.
Ahhh, that’ll be the day. Until then, Democrats can continue to stand by and watch Republicans elect them.
If Democrats really want change, it will have to be at least 1 & 2. Anything less is the status quo, which understandably seems to be an affront to select members of your Party.
The ideal would be when some
You mean like when the Diocese of Knoxville and many other churches in Knox Co actively voice their support for the anti-gay marriage amendment?
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
Separation of Church and State wasn't a bad idea
Do you believe lack of such an announcement would be an indicator of gay-marriage support?
But again, why do we have to care about any religion's stance as it relates to our government? That's the point of my replies on the issue. Marriage is a religious institution. Put government in charge of civil unions and be done with it.
Then put all the onus of marriage back where it belongs - churches. Force congregations to tackle issues in their own house instead of looking for resolution from people who have no business giving it. Forcing this would either result in much needed silence on the issue(this thread aside) or churches would get to come up with a whole new lessen plan for Exodus.
Here you go! Link... And
Here you go!
(link...)
And good luck getting marriage and civil unions separated in the minds of TN voters.
Even if you do you'll still be faced with the hard work of getting people to accept that queer folk are born that way and that its not an illness threatening the core of civilization.
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
+1 for the separation of
+1 for the separation of church and state with regards to marriage, same sex or otherwise.
Yes and politics is all
Yes and politics is all about logic and rationality isn't it?
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
The Reverend Cutler
It's not that the battle has changed. The target is still ignorance. Problem is, many feel they have a divine right to theirs.
If God's law is that we're all his children and our shared Constitutional law is that we are all created equal, then Ivor Cutler certainly had it right.
What's a gay local
What's a gay local issue?
Adding sexual orientation to the the City's non-discrimination policy.
This was on Council agenda several years ago, and several chicken-shit council members got it neutered to say "lawsy Miz Scarlett, we loves everybody" without actually amending the policy. That way they didn't have to vote yea or nay on the actual issue.
As I said - chickenshit.
Killing a bartender who
Killing a bartender who worked at the Carousel II didn't seem to merit a very harsh penalty.
And did anybody ever find the killer of Joseph Weir?
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Bloody Knox
Jesus, this is more sordid and bloody than I ever thought it could get here in Knoxville.
Quoting from Redmondkr's article linked above:
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
Of course you are quoting
Of course you are quoting from Metropulse, a newspaper some newbies here consider irrelevant.
I haven't been to the Cha Cha Palace (Carousel II) in several years but I remember in the mid 1980s when you didn't park in front of the bar. There was a tendency for automobiles to get vandalized there. You parked a block or so away and walked.
Many times when leaving at closing time my party has walked through a crowd of drunken college kids jeering and telling homophobic epithets at exiting bar patrons.
How well I remember too the night when some of the regulars were talking about the rumor that there was a person in Knoxville who had actually been diagnosed with AIDS.
Here is another puzzle in Knoxville's history of justice for gays. Was any arsonist ever arrested for torching the ARK (Aids Response Knoxville) office on Central several years ago?
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The Home
Couldn't resist posting this
Couldn't resist posting this. Don't know if it has exerpts from the Metropulse or not.
(link...)
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin
PARADE
Can anyone name one single Mayor of our fair city who has ever marched in the Gay Pride Parade? Seriously, can anyone name even one? They want the support and votes from the gay community but offer zero support for the issues confronting the gay population of Knoxville.
No I can't. Maybe if we
No I can't.
Maybe if we stopped electing conservative republicans, or conservative republidems we could get one to show up?
Maybe if we had elections in the city that actually identified candidates by political party?
Maybe if we more aggressively went after local politicians who support anti-queer policies, or have turned a blind eye to the many cases (partially chronicled above) of murder, violence and discrimination?
In the case of the latter, I think its less about "winning" on the issue/election than about winning the argument and drawing more people to our side. Take a stand, show some courage and more people will rally around queer issues.
Or we could do what my gay neighbor does and hide, saying things like "Well I don't think we should be able to marry."
-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)
"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin