Wed
Oct 7 2009
01:48:pm
The "gun show loophole" is a myth
By: R. Neal  shortURL

Or is it? New York City has just released the results of an undercover investigation into illegal sales at gun shows, including two gun shows in Tennessee.

continued...

Tennessee and 32 other states do not require background checks for purchasers involved in private sales even if they occur at gun shows. Private sellers are, however, prohibited by federal law from selling to a buyer who the seller has reason to believe would not pass a background check.

In the NYC undercover operation, investigators were able to purchase handguns and assault rifles from private sellers even though the buyers told the sellers that they "probably couldn't pass a background check." Eleven sellers refused, but 22 out of 33 sellers (67%) completed the transactions.

Another problem is "straw purchases," in which a purchaser has someone else complete the paperwork and background check. According to the report, NYC investigators were able to complete obvious straw purchases 16 out of 17 times (94%).

Yet another problem is the definition of "private seller." The NYC undercover operation found several instances of so-called "private sellers" operating booths with extensive gun inventories, including new weapons with price tags. According to the report, one "private seller" sold to investigators at three different gun shows and acknowledged selling 348 assault rifles for nearly $175,000 in revenues in less than one year.

• Press release

• Full report

• Website with videos

The gun enthusiasts will be quick to point out that all of this is already illegal. They also oppose stricter regulation and frequently criticize ATF and other enforcement efforts.

But what about the transactions between private individuals (including some who appear to actually be dealers) that aren't illegal?

When I sell a car or a boat or a motorcycle to another individual, we have to go down to the DMV and record the sale and the transfer of title. A simple solution for gun transactions would be to require sellers and buyers to go to the nearest licensed gun dealer or law enforcement agency to fill out the paperwork and perform the background check. But then the gun fetishists would complain about the inconvenience and the interference in their God Given Rights.
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metulj's picture

Page 14 puts the spike on

Submitted by metulj on Wed, 2009/10/07 - 2:16pm.

Page 14 puts the spike on how the investigators could have been from NYC and buying guns out of state. They were licensed investigators in the states where the buys were attempted and were often retired LEOs. Pretty damning when you read it, though lots of kudos to the sellers and dealers who turned them away. Good for them.

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R. Neal's picture

The spin cycle is cranking

Submitted by R. Neal on Wed, 2009/10/07 - 2:31pm.

The spin cycle is cranking up:

A few things. Stings are done by police under color of law, which investigators from NY are not when in Tennessee. The gun show loophole is a scary catchphrase for lawful citizen to citizen transfer of a firearm. And occasional sellers are just regular citizens selling personal firearms.

Source: the usual suspects.

smalc's picture

A couple things I noticed: I

Submitted by smalc on Wed, 2009/10/07 - 3:13pm.

A couple things I noticed:
I have been to a few gun shows in Knoxville from a couple different organizers/promoters. I'm pretty sure non-licensees were not allowed to rent tables (to sell guns, other junk ok). I'm not sure if that is a policy of the organizer or a local reg, but it doesn't appear to be the case in the videos shown.

When Bloomberg (and others, I suppose) recommends eliminating non-background checked purchases at gun shows, do they include only sales at tables? In the shows I've been to there's a lot of dealing on the sidewalks,in the aisles, and in the parking lot. So I don't think "closing the gunshow loophole" would have any effect without eliminating all private sales without background checks (which I am not necessarily opposed as long it is cheap and relatively painless).

R. Neal's picture

Update with link to website

Submitted by R. Neal on Wed, 2009/10/07 - 3:25pm.

Update with link to website with videos

(link...)

R. Neal's picture

Follow up

Submitted by R. Neal on Wed, 2009/10/07 - 8:01pm.

Follow up to a question asked of NYC officials:

From: "Post, Jason"
To: "R. Neal"
Subject: Question re. undercover investigation
Date: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 6:33 PM

Hi Randy -

The investigators did not break the law.

It is against [the law] to sell to someone who claims to be a prohibited
purchaser, but it is not against the law to claim to be a prohibited
purchaser when in fact you are not.

Jason Post
City of New York

smalc's picture

I don't think that is the

Submitted by smalc on Thu, 2009/10/08 - 10:44am.

I don't think that is the issue people are bringing up regarding whether the PI's broke the law.

The issue is whether a PI can buy a handgun out of his/her state of residence, which I don't know they can. There would have to be an exception in federal law for a state licensed PI. I doubt that is the case.
(some people are also grasping at the idea that these were straw purchases)

R. Neal's picture

I believe it was noted

Submitted by R. Neal on Thu, 2009/10/08 - 10:45am.

I believe it was noted earlier that all of the investigators were state residents. Many produced ID in the videos.

smalc's picture

Ok, I missed that. I thought

Submitted by smalc on Thu, 2009/10/08 - 2:41pm.

Ok, I missed that. I thought they were all NY locals.

lovable liberal's picture

I only had time to watch two

Submitted by lovable liberal on Fri, 2009/10/09 - 4:24pm.

I only had time to watch two of the vidlets this morning, but in those two the investigators were definitely not from Noo Yawk.

Liberty and justice for all.

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