Tue
Aug 4 2009
04:44 pm

lessons learned from a town hall meeting in Indiana yesterday.
"So know this: efforts to disrupt and thwart public discourse on civic matters are profoundly anti-democratic. But, that's an obstacle we face tonight. It's public knowledge that groups known as Tea Baggers intend to disrupt and thwart the public discourse on Health Care Reform in meetings like this during this month's Congressional Recess...The Tea Baggers' instructions are also public knowledge. If some people stand up, shout out and sit down; if some try to rattle us and the Congressman; if some pretend numeric superiority; if some try to stifle intelligent debate; then we can compare that behavior to the Tea Baggers' instructions and draw our own conclusions."



continued...

Not that disruption is always a bad thing; I'm actually a huge fan if used properly. What we're hopefully trying to do is disrupt an unsustainable system, not bend the curve of acceleration slightly downward. Let's start with some stronger language like "The Constitution of the United States did not make the President or the Congress powerless. It gave them definite responsibilities to advance the general welfare, and that is what we are attempting to do." 14:10
How to Revive Health-Care Innovation HBS Working Knowledge
"Generally, the leading practitioners of the old order become the victims of disruption, not the initiators of it. But properly educated, the leaders of the existing systems can take the lead in disrupting themselves—because while leaders instinctively view disruption as a threat, it always proves to be an extraordinary growth opportunity."

Extraordinary growth opportunities (not for lunch) advance the health, happiness and prosperity, and we need to build something disruptive enough to give us a globally competitive (superior) return on investment.

Elrod's picture

Smarting up to them

It's quite obvious that the Democratic Party, from the White House on down to rank-and-file Congresspeople and local parties have wised up to these tactics. Just as encouraging, much of the media is starting to view these astrothugs as enemies of democracy.

(link...)

James Calloway's picture

You're seriously deluding yourself

If you think that most of this is not genuine concern and not organized crowds turned out by the local community organizer. If that were true the poll numbers probably wouldn't be tanking as quickly as they are.

Most of the folks who are turning out seem to be seniors, perhaps concerned about the spooky end-of-life measures in the bill. I don't know why they're so surprised. Many of them were well pleased as youngsters when the government decided it could decide when a life could begin with abortion .. so I'm not sure why they'd freak out over a government that apparently wants to help (for now I guess) decide when it will end.

sugarfatpie's picture

Why don't you read what the

Why don't you read what the bill actually proposes about end of life care?
Have you ever seen someone on life support who didn't wan't it but didn't think to fill out a DNR?
Its pretty sad.
Its also obscenely expensive.
All the bill is trying to do is get people to declare wether or not they want a DNR.
Nothing more.

-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)

"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin

bizgrrl's picture

The key is each person can

The key is each person can declare they do NOT want a DNR, meaning they do want every attempt to be resuscitated/revived.

I cannot yet imagine when I would sign a DNR. My DNR would have to be so complex, e.g. yes resuscitate if, no don't resuscitate if, that they would almost always have to resuscitate because it would take so long to read the DNR, unless I had been sick for a while or other if (definitely braindead).

Just within the past year someone I knew went to the ER and was so sick the person was classified by ER personnel as some sort of rating that the person were very likely to die with not much chance of recovery, e.g. 9 out of 10 chances the person would die. However, the hospital, doctors, nurses, family, etc. did their thing and the person was out of the hospital within two weeks and still today doing quite well.

This isn't the first time I have encountered such circumstances.

DNRs are tough and individuals should always be aware they are under no obligation to sign one.

EricLykins's picture

Birthers,

...and now deathers. You'd think with the access to information we have these days the civil discourse would be a little more sophisticated than donning the brown shirt and stomping the enemies who are out to destroy your way of life (or life itself - yes that is very spooky!). I suppose it's only natural that death threats to the current President are up 400% over the last one since this administration is so, you know, Big Brother. Maybe the GOP should dust off that Southern Strategy and take us back to the wholesomeness of 50's era America before the antichrist puts his plan into motion.

Oh, and polls.

Nobody's picture

Why do they think only their way is the right way?

I really worry myself if the current health reform is what is right for us. But, I do not think that the richest nation in the world should have children that are not able to receive health care especially when we send billions to other countries to do just that for them.

It concerns me that the extremist think that if it is not the way they want it, it is not the right way. Not only is that how they think, but they are feeding seniors and other people false information about what the proposed health care bill states. If they want to argue and protest what it is about that is all well and good. But they should not build their case on clear misgivings and falsehoods.

I think it is fair to say that we all want what is best for the country. Having people in this country that are sick because of lack of healthcare is not what is best for this country. We need to take care of our own country before we help other countries with their people.

As far as what is contained in the healthcare bill, those who are lying about its contents in order to drive fear in people, should really think about what they are doing. You all know who you are.

This is not about whether there is a Republican or Democrat in office. There is no reason to whine about it either. This is about what will make America a better country.

I do not know if this particular bill is what is best or not. From what i have read, it needs some more work though. That is what they have the Senate and House for.

Those that are lying about the contents of this bill need to get a life. If you can't get your opinion across by telling the truth, then maybe your opinion is way off target of what we need in this country then.

redmondkr's picture

Last November when I had my

Last November when I had my 'little episode' I was asked several times if I had a DNR, first in the ER and again before each procedure in the following few days.

If Mr. Obama was behind all that, he surely worked fast, he had only been President-Elect for four days.

And after I sent him all that money.


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Rachel's picture

This "we're all gonna kill

This "we're all gonna kill granny" stuff is so specious it makes me sick.

The bill pays for seniors to have a VOLUNTARY session with their doctor once every five years to discuss end of life issues. It's a freakin' BENEFIT. There's nothing "spooky" about it.

Thag13's picture

Mrs Thag and I had to spend

Mrs Thag and I had to spend a LOT of money to make sure we had DNR and end of life decisions on my youngest son Morgan, who is autistic. This is a very hard thing to go thru and I dont wish that kinda pain on anybody. Having a chance to get your wishes in order when you are feeling well and not under a lot of pressure is a great idea.

This level of stupid is making me itch.

No Matter Where you go, There you Are!!!!

Virgil Proudfoot's picture

Haven't the Repubs gone nutso a little early this time?

When they're trying to scare the public about any kind of health-insurance reform, don't the Repubs normally wait till a little later in the game to pull out the "They're gonna kill granny" kind of stuff?

Isn't this resort to the major-league scare tactics this early in the "debate" really some sign of desperation? After all, if they had some kind of rational argument for maintaining the present insurance "system," wouldn't you expect them to start there, and then gin up to the booga-booga tactics as a last resort?

On the whole, this and the orchestrated tea-bagger riots look like positive signs to me. The Repubs are already in desparate straits. Maybe the Blue Cross Dogs won't be far behind.

gonzone's picture

The tactic

The reason for this tactic is that older persons are easily scared and already enjoy the benefits of government health care.

So, what to do to get them hating on the reform bill?

Tell them Obama wants to kill them!

Tell them Obama is going to take their Medicare away with this SCARY health reform bill.

BOO!!

Bunch of low life corporate shills! Have you no conscience? Are you all just little clones of McCarthy?

"If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?"

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