I must respond, Proudfoot. I don't discriminate against homosexuals but I am against legalizing and recognizing gay marriage. Are "Jeezo nuts" another name you use for the Religious Right? You are using that term while discussing the stroking of prejudices. Hum.........

Your links between Gay Marriage and Universal Healthcare are weak. Opposition to Gay Marriage is based primarily on the principle of procreation being valuable to the continuation of the species. Homosexuality is the antithesis of this. The religious aspects deal with controlling procreation, and supporting the species continuation. This does not make people "Jeezo nuts"

Healthcare costs are out of control. The basics for returning cost controls to the healthcare system is to return control (both financial and choice) to the individual, not in having a big government program for it. If you want to have a voucher system for healthcare, to help cover the uninsured, great. Just let people choose when and where to use them. Review the failures of both the Canadian and English government run healthcare systems prior to failing here.

Mmmm...Sounds like a tasty snack food!
Remember the Obama Waffles? If us "godless" liberals were as tacky as the TN GOP we would be making bags of Jeezo-Nuts and distributing them at our events. Jeez that would be stupid wouldn't it?

-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)

"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin

Anyone willing to let one of us idiots in on what "Jeezo Nuts" really means? Anyone got the nuts or will we get more wasted space like we did from the pie?

From a true "Jesus Nut" to a self proclaimed "godless" liberal, thank you. Honestly, I hope you're kidding about the "godless" part. I've read enough of your responses to know you're not kidding about the liberal tag. That's ok.

I still submit that it's possible to be against gay marriage but not be anti gay. There are gays against legalizing gay marriage (e.g., Elton John).

The only thing I disagree with, Rachael:

reserve the word "marriage" for religious ceremonies

Many (including me) believe that we should "reserve the word 'marriage' for ceremonies (religious or otherwise) between a man and a woman"

I support everyone enjoying the same civil rights. Regarding marriage, we have that now....everyone has the right to marry someone of the opposite sex (only one at a time though and you can't marry partners of the same sex, farm animals, pets, etc.).

I support everyone enjoying the same civil rights. Regarding marriage, we have that now....everyone has the right to marry someone of the opposite sex

Of course for gay people, that's no right at all.

It's not possible to have a discussion with anybody who puts forth this argument, so I won't try.

"Many (including me) believe that we should "reserve the word 'marriage' for ceremonies (religious or otherwise) between a man and a woman"

I imagine your church would be unwilling to perform such a ceremony and that's fine with me. I'm all about freedom of religion. However, my church would perform gay marriages and if you support our constitution I hope you'll allow us that freedom. It was us Congregationalists, after all, who started this country* and suffered long sea voyages for the cause of religious freedom.

* or something like that, I'm not a historian.

____________________________________
"Capitalism will never fail because socialism will always be there to bail it out." --Ralph Nader

I'm disappointed that nobody--at least nobody commenting--seemed to get my point. That point once again, very simply, is that both gay marriage and universal health care are excellent examples of social justice movements and, at the same time, excellent political opportunities to further the destruction of the Republican coalition.

Opposition to gay marriage unites the Undead (aka Born Agains, aka Jeezo Nuts) with the generally more socially liberal business-oriented country club Republicans. The former group gets to stroke their prejudices while the country clubbers get to avoid paying health insurance to more workers. Legalize gay marriage, and these two groups lose a big rallying issue.

Opposition to universal health insurance unites the Black Helicopter Trailer Trash, cowering in fear of the Big Gummint bogeyman, with the corporate elites who don't want the working class to get any more social benefits that might raise the elites' taxes. Bring Medicare for All into law and the proles will see how beneficial it is, thus destroying another unifying principle for the Republicans.

Again, my whole point is that fighting for social justice can be a win-win situation. It can not only bring about good things for people in general, but it can kick the arse of the reactionaries back into the caves where they belong.

OK, point taken.

I think both gay marriage and universal healthcare are worth fighting for on their own merits, but they are also both good leverage points for dislodging entrenched interests.

I wonder though how many "proles" would really change their tune if universal healthcare was available. Not that it isn't worth it regardless. Probably a few would.

-Sugarfatpie (AKA Alex Pulsipher)

"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin