Some readers with children in the Knox County Schools system may be interested to have this information concerning the upcoming window during which they may request school transfers (copied and pasted directly from the KCS Media Advisory):
The transfer window for the Knox County School System will be open Feb. 16 - 27. Parents or guardians interested in applying for a transfer must fill out a transfer application at their child’s base or zoned school. Elementary schools will accept transfer applications between the hours of 7:30 a.m. and 3:00 p.m. and middle and high schools will accept applications between 8:00 a.m. and 4:00 p.m.
Transfers may be requested for the following reasons:
1) Course Availability (Middle/High School)
2) School system employee’s children (Feeder Patterns/ Work Assignment)
3) To attend a magnet school (Beaumont, Green, Sarah Moore Greene Elementary Schools; Vine Middle School and Austin-East High School)
4) To attend a Project GRAD school (Sarah Moore Greene, Green, South Knoxville, Christenberry, Belle Morris, Spring Hill, Lonsdale, Maynard, Dogwood, and Beaumont Elementary Schools; Vine and Whittle Springs Middle Schools; Fulton and Austin-East High Schools)
5) Hardship or other
6) School of Choice No Child Left Behind (NCLB)
The School of Choice NCLB transfer is offered based on school performance data that is currently available. The particular schools offering this option may change as additional data is received. Federal law requires schools that have not met NCLB performance targets for two consecutive years to offer students the opportunity to transfer to a school that is meeting those targets or making adequate progress toward those targets. The schools currently offering school of choice for the 2009-2010 school year are Belle Morris and Spring Hill Elementary Schools, and Austin-East, Fulton, Carter, Central and South-Doyle High Schools.
Due to school performance, students requesting NCLB school of choice transfers may not be granted a transfer to Adrian Burnett, Beaumont, Cedar Bluff, Christenberry, Green, Hardin Valley, Pond Gap, and Sarah Moore Greene Elementary Schools.
The only high schools in standing to receive school of choice transfers are Bearden, Farragut, Hardin Valley Academy and Powell.
All previously granted transfers are good through the terminal grade of the school to which the transfer was granted and there is no need to re-apply.
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"Due to school performance,
"Due to school performance, students requesting NCLB school of choice transfers may not be granted a transfer to Adrian Burnett, Beaumont, Cedar Bluff, Christenberry, Green, Hardin Valley, Pond Gap, and Sarah Moore Greene Elementary Schools."
Explain this, please.
True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler
Some translations
Quite a bit of it needed translation, I thought, Metulj.
These are schools which have failed to make Adequate Yearly Progress (AYP) in both 2008 and 2007. Under NCLB's School of Choice provision, students may request transfers OUT of these schools.
These are schools which failed to make AYP in 2008, but were formerly making AYP in 2007.
No students are yet able to transfer OUT of these schools (because they have not failed to make AYP for two years in a row), but neither are any students allowed to transfer IN to these schools (because the schools' positions following 2008 test results are somewhat precarious).
These are the only four of our 13 high schools to have made AYP for two or more years in a row, so they are the only high schools able to accept School of Choice students transferring IN. Ironically, these are also our most crowded high schools.
Fascinating. I have two
Fascinating. I have two girls at the magnet program at Green. They love it, but one would like to go to Beaumont when a slot opens in the magnet programs happen. The work coming out of Green is very demanding and right up there with the private academy we had them at in New Jersey. This raises a lot of questions for me. I am going to think on it...
True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler
Austin-East, Fulton, Carter,
Austin-East, Fulton, Carter, Central and South-Doyle High Schools.
These are schools which have failed to make Adequate Yearly Progress (AYP) in both 2008 and 2007. Under NCLB's School of Choice provision, students may request transfers OUT of these schools.
It saddens me to see that 5 out of the 13 Knox County High Schools have failed to make AYP. Especially, SD, being sort of, kind of the high school I attended.
No, 9 out of 13
Actually, Bizgrrl, it's 9 out of 13 that failed to make AYP in 2008. Only Bearden, Farragut, Hardin Valley Academy, and Powell made it, which is why only they may accept students transferring IN.
Halls made it in 2007, but failed to make it in 2008. If I'm reading the Report Card correctly, Gibbs, Karns, and West have failed to make it for 2007 AND 2008.
On that point, I'm not understanding why students can't transfer OUT of Gibbs, Karns, and West, as well, since they've failed for two years running? (In fact, a neighbor told me just last week that her son would be transferring OUT of Karns High due to its failure to make AYP for two years in a row--and she had already spoken with KCS central office staff to verify that he could.)
I e-mailed someone at KCS with this question late last night. I'll share here when I hear back.
On that point, I'm not
On that point, I'm not understanding why students can't transfer OUT of Gibbs, Karns, and West, as well,
I guess that is what confused me.
Also, why is it Knox County seems unable to provide a decent education to high school students?
why is it Knox County seems
why is it Knox County seems unable to provide a decent education to high school students?
Apparently they can at Bearden, Farragut, Hardin Valley Academy, and Powell. Let's see, what do these schools all have in common?
Something "breaks" before that
There is general agreement among board members that, for some students, something is "breaking" before they reach high school. We just see its consequences in high school.
For these students, some board members have suggested creating an "8 Plus" semester or grade prior to high school.
Dan Murphy thinks KCS should reach down lower still, maybe creating a "5 Plus" semester or grade prior to middle school.
Apparently, other school systems have had some success with both approaches.
What does "8 Plus" (or "5
What does "8 Plus" (or "5 Plus") semester mean?
"8 Plus" and "5 Plus" interventions
Sorry--I thought I kinda explained that in the context...
You've heard the old adage that "in grades K through 3, kids learn to read, but after that they read to learn?"
Well, "8 Plus" or "5 Plus" programs keep eighth graders or fifth graders around another semester or so for remediation--often in reading but sometimes in math, too--before passing them up to the next school in the feeder pattern.
It's an intervention that works to better prepare students for the "next level" in their education, yet avoids failing them altogether in eighth or fifth grades.
In discussions I've heard, finding the physical space to deliver the interventions is something of a problem. There's also some uncertainty on the part of board members as to whether an "8 Plus" program, for instance, should be delivered in a middle school or a high school space. Same question for any "5 Plus" program: Teach it in an elementary school, or a middle school?
If Indya or Karen should happen by this thread, maybe they can fill us in on any more recent discussions they've had on the subject?
Sorry--I thought I kinda
Sorry--I thought I kinda explained that in the context...
Guess I need an additional semester.
Don't they already have "summer" school and/or offer tutoring?
Summer school
Yes, summer school is now available ONLY for remediation (but is not open to any students wanting enrichment).
I *think* teachers and administrators can only recommend, but not require, students' attendance at summer school?
In contrast, I *think* students' participation in any "8 Plus" or "5 Plus" program would essentially be a mandatory grade placement?
I'm unsure, though. Indya? Karen?
8+
Tamara,
Thanks for posting this information about transfers.
The 8+ program has been described as an academic red-shirt year for 8th graders who aren't ready to do high school level work. A student may just need one semester to get up to speed and start regular high school. It's been tried with some success in many places all over the country (see article below). We considered it as part of the re-design program at Fulton, but discussion tapered off when it seemed money and space were not available. Perhaps the federal economic stimulus package would enable us to consider it once again.
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/08/22/Northpinellas/Grade_85_offers_half_.shtml
As for NCLB status, I know only 4 of our 13 high schools are in "good standing", but that doesn't mean the other 9 schools aren't doing well by many measures. The goal for graduation rate is 90%, so if a school makes it one year, but then gets only 88% the next year, they are considered "failing" under NCLB, and therefore not eligible for NCLB transfers. The state report card provides more data on exactly where a school is struggling and to what extent. Students can get excellent educations at all our schools. At Fulton's Academic Achievers dinner earlier this week I met a senior who has earned a full scholarship to attend Vanderbilt. There are success stories like that in every school.
AYP is assessed on several factors - academics, attendance, graduation rate, and success by sub groups (English Language Learners, Special Ed, Low Socio-Economic Status, African American) and if a school fails to make it in any single category the whole schools is labeled a failure.
NCLB definitely helps identify deficiencies, but it's a broad brushstroke.
Indya
Opps are out there
Thanks for chiming in, Indya.
And I want you to know that I was typing my post about the more rigorous standards imposed on today's students BEFORE I saw your post come up.
I agree that KCS high schools "deliver"--to those students who are willing and able to receive.
About transferring OUT of Gibbs, Karns, or West
As promised, below is my full exchange with KSC spokesperson Russ Oaks, in which I asked why students at Gibbs, Karns, or West High couldn't request School of Choice transfers OUT of their schools.
Russ explains that only students in Title I schools may transfer OUT after their schools fail to make AYP for two years. Students in other schools may exercise this option only after their zoned schools fail to make AYP for four years.
(See our full exchange below.)
Tamara – I was trying to be too concise. I need to go back and add some clarification and additional information. For Title I Schools that would be after two years of not making AYP in a particular subject area or with a particular demographic group of students. For all other schools it would be when they entered corrective action as specified by the state and that would be in after four years.
R/ Russ
From: Tamara Shepherd [mailto:dennishepherd@comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 12:13 AM
To: Russ Oaks
Subject: Re: KCS News Release - The Knox County Schools to open 2009 transfer window
Hi, Russ--
Your advisory on the transfer window indicates:
"Federal law requires schools that have not met NCLB performance targets for two consecutive years to offer students the opportunity to transfer to a school that is meeting those targets or making adequate progress toward those targets. The schools currently offering school of choice for the 2009-2010 school year are Belle Morris and Spring Hill Elementary Schools, and Austin-East, Fulton, Carter, Central and South-Doyle High Schools."
So...I'm not understanding why Gibbs, Karns, and West high schools are not offering school of choice transfers for 2009-2010? The State Report Cards seems to indicate that these three high schools haven't made AYP for two consecutive years, either? Can you explain?
Thanks,
Tamara Shepherd
Title I, Part A Program This
Title I, Part A Program
(For those of us watching from the sidelines who may not be up on all the latest vernacular.)
On the other paw...
I went to Powell High, so I'm of two minds on the subject:
Actually, I got a pretty good education at dear old PHS1. I had several excellent teachers: Eleanor Agron for Algebra and Trigonometry, Nita Buell and Vicki Dunaway for English, Bob Savery for Biology, and Yvonne (?) Piercy for American History.
1 As an aside, Powell Middle, which I also attended, refers to itself as "PMS", including once using the slogan "PMS: Catch the Spirit!" on the signboard in front. Do they now realize how that sounds?
Voting is like driving. If you want to go backwards, select R. If you want to go forward, select D.
I feel I got a good
I feel I got a good education from Doyle High (pre South-Doyle). My teachers cared, as did the guidance counselors. Can't remember all of their names, thus I beg their forgiveness, some include Kennedy (history), Arnett (history), D'Andrea (band), DeRidder (mathematics), Clark (science), at least two of my English teachers, mythology. Administrators I thank include Nicely, Knight, Kennedy, and Mildred Doyle's sister (I believe). Of course, my parents were fairly involved (even with six kids), which might have made a big difference.
Increased rigor today
You know, I've chewed on this quite a bit during the years I've had a child in a KCS high school (also Powell High, where I went).
In spite of all the gloom and doom we hear about "failing schools" and "failing students," I think that in many ways today's students receive a far better high school education than I did.
In my era (I'm a 1975 grad), it was possible to graduate from a KCS high school with just one year of General Arithmetic! Not even Algebra I was required!
The same was true in the natural sciences. Students didn't have to take Biology, or any other lab science, for that matter. Absent any advice from either my guidance counselor or my parents, I actually took Earth Science in high school, which was adequate for my then enrolling in Geology in college!
Given the much more rigorous core course requirements today's kids are asked to complete, I wonder sometimes whether we are failing to give them their due.
My own daughter has had 5 years of English, 4 years of Math, 4 years of History, 4 years of Foreign Language, and 3 years of Natural Science, as well as several vocational-oriented classes, mythology, theater, and 5 Fine Arts classes! She sure got more out of her high school years than I ever did...
(I did, however, graduate in just three years, an option I now feel should be disallowed. I wasn't a "December grad," you understand. I simply attended only three years. Is this still allowed???)
Good to Know
It's good to know that KCS are better today. But when I graduated in 78 in Chicago burbs, the core requirements were about the same as KCS today: 3 years math, 3 years science, 4 years English -- can't remember the rest.
The United States public education was doing it's best in the 70's. In most areas of the country there has been a steady decline. It's nice to know that here -- improvement is happening.
However, I would have to point out that today's schools are not preparing students for the workforce or life. We need to rethink the entire system. I am not faulting the teachers or adminstration. Since the 70's we are operating in a completely different world due to technology. But the schools remain mostly unchanged since ???.
Tech skills
Just four years ago, when my daughter entered high school, I heard several parents of kids on this Honors/AP track complain that their students hadn't been taught the tech skills their high school teachers assumed they carried to high school.
I don't think this was especially an issue on other curriculum tracks, but these particular teachers were asking for only "typewritten" assignments, PowerPoint presentations, and video presentations (using webcams many students didn't even own, much less know how to use). They seemed to assume that students had the exclusive use of a computer at home, too, which, at that time, was not the case for our daughter. We had to buy her quite a bit of software and computer equipment, including that laptop, pretty early on--just to enable her to do her ninth grade homework.
Once equipped, we scrambled to quickly teach her these skills she needed. I don't mind telling you, though, as many years as I've been out of the workforce, I had to rely on my husband to teach several applications. I'm sure other families had this same dilemma, as a lot of kids on this track have stay-at-home moms.
But that was four years ago. Today, I'm delighted to report that my younger child, a seventh grader, is learning all these skills in middle school. A two-part class series called Foundations in Technology is teaching him what we tried, as best we could, to teach our daughter.
I'll report progress, then, to the benefit of my children in their particular studies (although I expect to have to buy yet another home computer really soon).
I do wonder, though, at the tech skills other students may be developing in other curriculum tracks? I wonder, too, what becomes of students qualifed to undertake this more rigorous curriculum, but whose parents can't afford the investment in home technology to support them in their studies?
Remember: Statewide, 54.7% of them can't scrape together lunch money (stats discussed earlier, above)!
Here is a good website for educational stats
http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/states/profile.asp
Did you know 68.4 % of the schools in Tennessee are Title 1 schools?
Did you know that 47.7% of Tennessee's students are elegible for reduced or free lunch?
I think any student from any school can request transfer to any Magnet School regardless of NCLB or title 1 status. They may however not be selected.
TN Dept of Educ data differs...
I don't know why the discrepancy, but the Tennessee Department of Education's 2008 State Report Card reflects 54.5% Economically Disadvantaged (aka "Free and Reduced Lunch"), a majority of students statewide, and 39.7% Title I schools.
See: http://edu.reportcard.state.tn.us/pls/apex/f?p=200:1:2940558162237453 (and look under the "Student Body Demographics" heading).
I would expect to find that the states' annual report cards reflect the most current stats, and that these national data are collected from individual states a bit later?
Transfer Advisory at KCS website
KCS spokesperson Russ Oaks advises in an e-mail moments ago that he has just posted a clearer advisory on the system's school transfer policy, and especially clearer instruction on which students may transfer out of which schools, at the KCS website.
See http://knoxschools.org/modules/cms/pages.phtml?sessionid=1b92e25e2361e41...
difference
I wonder which one is right. Either way I would think that someone wanting to move to Tennessee might look at either website and think otherwise reveiwing the information. And I have seen on other sites that Tennessee is ranked 48th in Education. It is too bad the Governor's dream of improving education has still left us at 48th. Then again we now have Bill Dunn as TN. chariman on Education. I thought I heard him say at a debate that he home schooled. Might be wrong about that one though. And just to think about companies that would consider moving into Tennessee do we offer a good enough work force? What is our graduation rate? How many students that do graduate from shcool in Tennesee are proficeint enough to start college without taking remedial classes? What is going on with our schools??????????
Bill Dunn
Yes, the Dunns have several children (3?) and Bill's wife homeschools all of them, I believe.
I know they're zoned for Central High, as Bill said so last summer, when he attended both of those community meetings on how to impact Central's future.
I'm not particularly optimistic that Bill will work very hard to raise our rank of 48th in per capita spending on education (if that's the most recent ranking).
He was a pretty outspoken foe of the governor's pre-school proposal, you'll remember, waving from the floor a handful of "worksheets" his wife used with their children, and insisting they would suffice for a "program."
I thought Dunn's kids or
I thought Dunn's kids or some of his kids went, or go, to Catholic High School.
At least one is taught at home...
It may be that he has one (or more) older kids who do attend Catholic, Gary?
However, I distinctly recall that during the debate over Bredesen's pre-school proposal, he made references from the floor to materials his wife used to homeschool some number (maybe just one?) of their children.
Isn't it the case that the homeschooling parent has to be a college grad to instruct a high school age child? Could this be why the Dunns send one or more older kids to a private high school, if they do? Just guessing...
Isn't it the case that the
Isn't it the case that the homeschooling parent has to be a college grad to instruct a high school age child?
Don't think so.
Don't know what other regs they might have. One parent a college grad? Approval of teaching tools by a college grad? Other?
y'know, one really bad part
y'know, one really bad part of this transfer policy is that under the policy, you can transfer INTO a Project Grad school, which has a different curriculum than non-Project Grad schools.
But you can't transfer OUT of a Project Grad school, even though it's a target school this year, because it eeked by last year. So if you want your kid to have the same curriculum as the rest of the County Schools, you're stuck, if that's the school you're zoned for.
We've really got to end economic segregation of our schools so that every child has access to the best curricula possible.
PG using KSC curricula now
Actually, rs, both the Success for All Reading and the Move It Math curricula have been replaced by the county's own in recent years.
The program is pretty much comprised of just that social services "shell" these days.
The recently-completed Annenberg report KCS commissioned wasn't particularly kind on the subject of system administrators' propensity to "layer on" programs, nor on their reluctance to ditch those that fail to produce adequate results...
(I think that report is on the KCS website, if you haven't read it.)
Things have changed
Actually, Rocket Squirrel, our current transfer policy is based on capacity. If you want to leave any school in the county and attend any other school in the county, you can, if there is space and you provide your own transportation. At this point in time space is allocated on a first-come first served basis, although in the future that may change to a lottery system. Students transferring from a "failing" Title I schools, are entitled to transportation as well. You can read more about the KCS transfer policy on-line.
As a parent of 2 kids in a Project GRAD school, I beg to differ that the curriculum is inferior. I've been in a lot of schools, k-12, GRAD and non-GRAD, and I'd say the primary difference between GRAD and non-GRAD schools are the additional supports available to disadvantaged students in GRAD schools, social services, college counselors, scholarship opportunities, that sort of thing.
The reading program is now exactly the same in all KCS elementary schools. Success For All (SFA) has been dropped since the other program was shown to be more effective. The Move-it-Math curriculum is unique to Project GRAD elementary schools, but data show that it's quite effective, and in fact many of its elements have been spread across the county. I help do Move-it-Math activities with 2nd graders once a week and think the way they teach mathematical reasoning is great. I especially like that they teach kids many ways to think about and solve problems, not just to memorize one technique. The math gains in Project GRAD schools are strong.
There *are* differences in course offerings among our high schools. Some of that is based on size of the school - Fulton has about 1000 students, Bearden closer to 2000. Some of it is also a matter of supply and demand.
Our achievement gaps will never be resolved addressed until we fix the opportunity and expectations gaps. One way to tackle that challenge is to encourage parents with high expectations to enroll their kids in the local public school. Another way is to insist on rigor and excellence for all kids, even those whose families may not be effective advocates. These reforms require on-going effort on many fronts.
Fulton currently offers a wide array of AP courses, foreign language and top level science and math courses. Even if only a few students are interested in a course, they bend over backwards to make it happen. This year they piloted a distance learning higher level math course. A student wanted to take a course that wasn't being offered at Fulton that semester, so they linked into the same course being offered at another high school. The student could observe the class live and participate in the learning. I believe the teacher visited Fulton in person at least once a week. Not ideal, but the efforts are being made, and in a time of shrinking budgets, distance learning might become more common.
Change is incremental, but we are making progress.
Recent studies on PG results (Knox & Houston)
(We're rambling here, but...)
I knew that SFA Reading went some time ago. But Donna Wright, whom I understand does not support MI Math, led me to believe that it was out the door, as well? Did that plan stall?
I don't think anyone said that it was inferior. I'm not even sure how we could compare student test scores the PG curricula HAVE produced against those the KCS curricula MIGHT HAVE produced.
What is clear from five years of local test data, though, is that the PG curricula have not enabled students to make the academic progress NCLB requires, at the pace NCLB requires it.
I spent a week culling these scores from the Tennessee Department of Education State Report Card's current and archival files last June. This was prior to the release of 2008 scores in November of 2008, so I reviewed scores from 2007 back to the date of full PG implementation in 2003.
From my notes, here's a recap:
In a review of how many PG schools tested proficient or advanced in BOTH math and reading/language arts in 2007 (as BOTH benchmarks must be met for a school to avoid landing on NCLB's "target" list), 12 of 14 PG schools failed to meet BOTH benchmarks.
From 2006 to 2007, the percentage of students testing Below Proficient in math grew higher at 7 of 14 PG schools and remained unchanged at one more.
From 2006 to 2007, the percentage of students testing Below Proficient in reading/language arts grew higher at 4 of 14 PG schools and remained unchanged at two more.
Tracking the NCLB school "status" ranking back to inception of the PG program, 6 of 14 PG schools ranked weaker in 2007 than in 2003, the year the program began.
Meanwhile, back at PG's flagship campuses in Houston, Texas, their 13 years of data were recently reviewed, too.
The Houston Chronicle (http://www.chron.com) reported in February of 2008 that, based on their PG students' test results on the Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills, the SAT, and the ACT, only 25% of the 2006 graduating class was "college ready." A subsequent study indicated that only 30% of the 2008 graduating class could avoid remedial coursework in college. The reviewer, Judy Radigan with Rice University, found the results "very worrying" and added that only 33% of Texas students were graduating from high school within five years.
Even more authoritatively, The Institute of Education Sciences, a branch of the U. S. Department of Education (http://ies.ed.gov) has commented on the relative success of the flagship PG program in Houston.
As to progressing in school, their study found "no statistically significant differences between PG students and comparison group students in the number of credits they earned during ninth grade or the rate at which they were promoted to tenth grade."
As to completing school, their study found "no statistically significant difference between PG students and comparison group students in the proportion who ever graduated, looking ahead at least three years."
Your anecdotal evidence in your daughter's classroom notwithstanding, Indya, I really haven't found any research supporting PG's ability to net results in terms of at-risk students'--not your daughter's--achievement.
Even if the program could be proven to net results over some longer period of time, we don't have that much time. It's NCLB law that dictates the time allowed, and the clock runs out in five years.
(There is time in five years to try something new, though.)
Indya,Inferior was your
Indya,
Inferior was your word, not mine. I asked if the curricula was different between Project Grad and non-Project Grad Schools.
Still waiting for a definitive answer on that.
Tamara--great information in your last comment, btw.
update: I am extremely bothered by Indya's comment that curriculum decisions are made based on "supply and demand." How can that possibly lead to equitable distribution of curricular opportunities for all Knox County students? Surely KCS isn't making major policy decisions like curriculum based on "supply and demand?" Surely we're basing it on desired outcomes for all students...not an economic model that is based on price and quantity in a market.
Back in 2004, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation funded a grant for a high school student to produce a documentary about the curriculum disparity between suburban and inner-city schools.
Food for thought. I wonder if Knox County Schools is willing to do such a survey and look as hard at differences in urban and suburban curricula.
I thought you had to be a
I thought you had to be a high school grad to homeschool for lower grades, and a college grad to homeschool high schoolers.
But this is based on a hazy recollection of old info, so could certainly be incorrect.
so Tamara, the curriculum is
so Tamara, the curriculum is now the same between Project Grad and non-Project Grad schools? You can get Latin classes at Farragut and Fulton?
Has Fulton changed in this respect?
Sorry, rs--I was referring to just the PG elementary schools having adopted the KCS curricula because I knew your son was an elementary student (in private school, I mean).
I was pretty chapped about Fulton's offerings years ago, when I lived in 4th & Gill. My closest female friend, also zoned for Fulton, gave up custody of her son to her ex-husband primarily because she knew he could provide the boy the better public education. We both cried.
But you tell me--have the foreign language offerings there become any broader since the redesign this year? I sat through a couple of presentations on the redesign, but that point wasn't mentioned?
Rep. Dunn has several
Rep. Dunn has several childen who are home schooled, I believe. It also would not surprise me if he had children at Catholic.
He is, however, not the chairman of the House Education Committee. That is Rep. Harry Brooks.
I thought that Dunn is over,
I thought that Dunn is over, what, House Rules, or whatever the committee is called that sets the agenda?
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