Thu
Jul 13 2006
04:30 pm

Valerie Plame has filed a lawsuit against Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, and Scooter Libby.

58
like
Andy Axel's picture

And just in time, too.

Now maybe Novakula will shut his fat yapper ... at least if he doesn't want a share of that suit.

____________________________

"The iPod was not developed by Baptists in Waco." -- G.K.

Les Jones's picture

About Joe Wilson

Here's something my Dark Master Karl Rove (Bow Down Before Him!) commanded me to say. If you think politicians are dishonest, get a load of Joe Wilson.

- Why Did Joseph Wilson Lie? "As Romerstein put it in an article for Human Events, when answering the question about who really exposed Wilson's wife, "The culprit was Joe Wilson…with some help from his wife."

- Factcheck.org: Bush's "16 Words" on Iraq & Uranium: He May Have Been Wrong But He Wasn't Lying - "Ironically, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who later called Bush’s 16 words a “lie”, supplied information that the Central Intelligence Agency took as confirmation that Iraq may indeed have been seeking uranium from Niger."

- A Primer On The Credibility Of Joseph Wilson - This evidence showed that Saddam had continued to violate the sanctions regime and still intended on developing WMD. Moreover, the US (and the British, who had similar intelligence) could not know whether Saddam had successfully transacted for the uranium elsewhere. Wilson did prove that they certainly wanted to buy it, probably with the vast sums of cash the Oil-For-Food program generated for Saddam.

"In other words, Wilson misrepresented his report in his New York Times article. Nor would this be the last of Wilson's unethical actions, or even the first.

"Prior to the publication of this piece under his own name, Wilson -- who once demanded to see Karl Rove frog-marched for allegedly leaking his wife's status -- leaked the then-classified intelligence to the Washington Post. The Post ran an article critical of Bush's use of the Niger report on June 12, 2003, for which Wilson admitted he supplied the data. The SSIC found that his input to the Post was inaccurate, at the least:"

- Washington Post: Husband Is Conspicuous in Leak Case:Wilson's Credibility Debated as Charges In Probe Considered "Wilson's central assertion -- disputing President Bush's 2003 State of the Union claim that Iraq was seeking nuclear material in Niger -- has been validated by postwar weapons inspections. And his charge that the administration exaggerated the threat posed by Iraq has proved potent.

"At the same time, Wilson's publicity efforts -- and his work for Sen. John F. Kerry's presidential campaign -- have complicated his efforts to portray himself as a whistle-blower and a husband angry about the treatment of his wife. The Vanity Fair photos, in particular, hurt Plame's reputation inside the CIA; both Wilson and Plame have said they now regret doing the photo shoot."


Hey, Les, why don't we just call each other assholes and get it over with. - Somebody on the old Southknoxbubba.net (if that was you, claim your quote and win net.fame!)

veery's picture

interesting

That information about Joe Wilson and the uranium makes me wonder why Bush, knowing so much more about Wilson and 16 words and being intimate with all that classified information he used to decide to invade Iraq, ever took the Plame leak seriously enough to promise to fire anyone involved.

Andy Axel's picture

That information about Joe

That information about Joe Wilson and the uranium makes me wonder why Bush, knowing so much more about Wilson and 16 words and being intimate with all that classified information he used to decide to invade Iraq, ever took the Plame leak seriously enough to promise to fire anyone involved.

Answer: He never took the Plame leak seriously. And his promise to fire anyone involved was B.S.

____________________________

"The iPod was not developed by Baptists in Waco." -- G.K.

WhitesCreek's picture

 Gee, Les...Seems like you

 Gee, Les...Seems like you would at least use up to date info when you try to slime someone. Quoting a discredited story may not work for you any more. Does your conscience ever give you those little twinges when you violate the Ninth commandment?

 

"The facts are beyond dispute. The Office of the Vice President requested that the CIA investigate reports of alleged uranium purchases by Iraq from Niger. The CIA setup a meeting to respond to the Vice President's inquiry. Another CIA official, not Valerie Wilson, suggested to Valerie Wilson's supervisor that the Ambassador attend that meeting.  That other CIA official made the recommendation because that official was familiar with the Ambassador's vast experience in Niger and knew of a previous trip to Africa concerning uranium matters that had been undertaken by the Ambassador on behalf of the CIA in 1999. Valerie Wilson's supervisor subsequently asked her to relay a request from him to the Ambassador that he would like the Ambassador to attend the meeting at the CIA. Valerie Wilson did not participate in the meeting.

As the CIA itself has officially confirmed, Valerie Wilson did not send Ambassador Wilson to Niger and she neither suggested him nor recommended him for the trip. Furthermore, the Ambassador agreed to travel to Niger pro bono with only his travel expenses being paid."

 

 

Factchecker's picture

With any defense of a right-wing smear comes a new smear attack

With any defense of a right-wing smear comes a new smear attack from the right.  The factcheck piece was written two years ago and states that history will determine whether Bush's words were true.  Unfortunately for Les's cover-up, a year and a half after that was posted, Tyler Drumheller, (only) the chief of the CIA covert operations in Europe during the era in question, has come out and completely debunked the Niger evidence, in direct corroboration with Wilson's accounts:
 
"So, let me see if I have it correctly. The United States gets a report that Saddam is trying to buy uranium from Africa. But you and many others in our intelligence community quickly knock it down. And then the uranium story is removed from the speech that the President is to give in Cincinnati. Because the head of the CIA, George Tenet, doesn't believe in it?" [60 minutes correspondent, Ed] Bradley asked.

"Right," Drumheller appeared.

It then appeared in the State of the Union address as a British report. Drumheller, who oversaw intelligence operations for the CIA in Europe doubts the British had something the U.S. didn't. "No. I don’t think they did," he says.

The British maintain they have intelligence to support the story —but to this day, they have never shared it.

That last statement allows Bush and apologists like Les to claim that, technically, Bush didn't lie because he used the qualifier "The British government has learned...".  Of course as long as the British gov't remains silent, it can't be proved they didn't learn something, even if what they learned turned out to be false.   This is just a cheap way to cover deception.  I call intentional misleading a lie.  But Les and his army of Bush apologists want to parse it into, "It depends on where the definition of the word 'lie' lies."     
 
BTW, in contrast to the administration's and freeper blogosphere's claims that the entire world intel community was fooled, this report adds:
 
On March 7, 2003, the head of the United Nations' nuclear watchdog agency announced that the Niger uranium documents were forgeries. The Bush administration went to war in Iraq 12 days later, without acknowledging that one of its main arguments for going to war was false.
  
So Bush's Niger statement and the defense of it is beyond spin and well into the bullshit category, if not a bald-faced lie. 
  
You loyal Bush apologists need to come up with a good smear for Drumheller too.  You'll probably start with that tired old saw: "He's just trying to sell his book."  Of course without a documented account (i.e., a book), he wouldn't have a documented account that shows what a liar Bush is!
 
Ironically and sadly, Wilson and Drumheller, like John Dean, probably are conservative by pre-Reagan era standards.

_________________________________

Never has the left been so right.

Les Jones's picture

You're right

I should use more current references. How about the report from the 9/11 Commission?

Former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, dispatched by the CIA in February 2002 to investigate reports that Iraq sought to reconstitute its nuclear weapons program with uranium from Africa, was specifically recommended for the mission by his wife, a CIA employee, contrary to what he has said publicly.

Wilson last year launched a public firestorm with his accusations that the administration had manipulated intelligence to build a case for war. He has said that his trip to Niger should have laid to rest any notion that Iraq sought uranium there and has said his findings were ignored by the White House.

Wilson's assertions -- both about what he found in Niger and what the Bush administration did with the information -- were undermined yesterday in a bipartisan Senate intelligence committee report.

The panel found that Wilson's report, rather than debunking intelligence about purported uranium sales to Iraq, as he has said, bolstered the case for most intelligence analysts. And contrary to Wilson's assertions and even the government's previous statements, the CIA did not tell the White House it had qualms about the reliability of the Africa intelligence that made its way into 16 fateful words in President Bush's January 2003 State of the Union address.

Poor old Wilson and Plame. Always having their privacy violated.

 

I know you'd like to think that Joe Wilson is to Bush what Deepthroat was to Nixon. The fact is Joe Wilson is to Bush what Paula Jones was to Clinton. 


 

Hey, Les, why don't we just call each other assholes and get it over with. - Somebody on the old Southknoxbubba.net (if that was you, claim your quote and win net.fame!)

rikki's picture

not the 16 words, the other ones

And Rove and Libby are to Bush's promise to fire anyone involved in the Plame leak what Clinton's semen was to Monica's dress.

WhitesCreek's picture

Hey, Rikki... I went to

Hey, Rikki...

 I went to Clinton's Presidential Library a week or two ago and got several of my Republican buddies to go with me. Told 'em they could  have their picture taken with the "little blue dress" for ten bucks.  (Republicans will swallow anything...although Monica wouldn't)

 Anyway. Les keeps using stuff that's either made up or off the point. How can the Wilson's willingness to be photographed AFTER Valerie had her career ruined by an act of treason be significant to the argument? And does Les come to grips with Bush's failure to fire the Leaker?

Why no!

Les Jones's picture

Then who was the leaker?

You guys all seem to know who the leaker was. So who was it?

Hint: it wasn't Rove. As Novak wrote recently, "One was by my principal source in the Valerie Wilson column, a source whose name has not yet been revealed. The other was by presidential adviser Karl Rove, whom I interpret as confirming my primary source's information."

Ben Bradlee (of WaPo/Watergate/All the President's Men fame) thinks Novak's source was former State Department Deputy Secretary Richard Armitage. He's former, so of course Bush can't fire him. Not that Bush knew that when he made that promise to fire - I mean, that would indicate Bush has an IQ above room temperature, and you know that's impossible, right? But go ahead and keep thinking you're going to get Bush on this. How many years has l'affair Plame been going?

Ms. American Spy
(Sung to the tune of Don McLean's American Pie)

A short, short time ago
I can still remember
How the "Plame Game" used to make me smile
And as I read those D-Kos rants
I got a big bulge in my pants
And thought maybe we'd get "Chimpy" for awhile

But then June 12th made me shiver
Fate became an "Indian Giver"
Bad news on the Internet
Precisely what I had fret!

Oh, I remember how I cried
When I thought of Wilson's "outed" bride
Something deep within me fried
The day that Fitzmas died

So don't cry, Ms. American Spy
We'll get Libby for his fibby
And then Cheney will fry
And that smirking chimp will finally wave us goodbye
Singin', this'll be the day donkeys fly
This'll be the day donkeys fly

Did you see the film Loose Change?
And do you have faith you're not deranged
Though ev'rybody tells you so?
Do you believe in "Downing Street"
The "Memo" that'll get Shrub impeached?
And can you prove Kerry won O-hi-o?

Well, I know that Diebold rigs machines
'Cause the exit polls are all I need
Vote counts are just a ruse
I'd Rather trust CBS News!

I was a lone mid-thirties ne'er do well
In my Mommy's basement on her old-school Dell
But I could have sworn I was in Hell
The day that Fitzmas died

I started singin':
Don't cry, Ms. American Spy
We'll get Libby for his fibby
And then Cheney will fry
And that smirking chimp will finally wave us goodbye
Singin', this'll be the day donkeys fly
This'll be the day donkeys fly

For nearly six years, we'd been overthrown
Reading psychotic rants in Rolling Stone
Believing every conspiracy
Will Pitt had to vent his spleen
With a quote he borrowed from Howard Dean
And a scream that came from you and me

Oh, and while Chimp's polls were looking down
Fitz dropped the ball and lost his crown
The Grand Jury was adjourned
No indictment was returned
And while Markos read a book on Marx
Code Pink protested in the park
Neil Young sang dirges full of snark
The day that Fitzmas died

We were singing:
Don't cry, Ms. American Spy
We'll get Libby for his fibby
And then Cheney will fry
And that smirking chimp will finally wave us goodbye
Singin', this'll be the day donkeys fly
This'll be the day donkeys fly

Bash 'em, smash 'em, gut 'em all and trash 'em
Repukes get off, seems we just can't thrash 'em
All our hopes are fading fast
Nancy's built a House of glass
Those frozen assets could bite our ass
Didn't need that freezer full of cold hard cash

Thought TruthOut's scoop meant Karl Rove's doom
We envisioned his frog-marching gloom
Our cause it would advance
Oh, but we never got the chance
'Cause Leopold's tale was far afield
Those "business hours" refused to yield
Do you recall "Sealed Versus Sealed"?
The day that Fitzmas died

We started singing:
Don't cry, Ms. American Spy
We'll get Libby for his fibby
And then Cheney will fry
And that smirking chimp will finally wave us goodbye
Singin', this'll be the day donkeys fly
This'll be the day donkeys fly

Oh, and there we were all in one place
Moonbats lost in cyberspace
With no chads left to count again
So come on, Fitz be nimble, Fitz be quick
Indict some Rethug and make it stick
'Cause indifference is the fascists' only friend

And as I watched him on the news
My lips were clenched 'round some cheap booze
But no drink the store would sell
Could break Bushitler's spell
And as the "Plame Game" died out in the light
To cheers from the "Religious Right"
I saw Freepers laughing with delight
The day that Fitzmas died

We were singing:
Don't cry, Ms. American Spy
We'll get Libby for his fibby
And then Cheney will fry
And that smirking chimp will finally wave us goodbye
Singin', this'll be the day donkeys fly
This'll be the day donkeys fly

I met a girl who'd popped some 'ludes
And I asked her to improve my mood
But she told me that she was gay
I went down to the DU board
Where I'd read the good news weeks before
But the threads there said the indictment wouldn't play

And in the streets Mother Sheehan screamed
Franken cried, and Al Gore schemed
No "truth to power" spoken
Air America was broken!
And the blogger I admired most
Armando from the Daily Kos
He hopped a Lear Jet for the coast
The day that Fitzmas died

And they were singing:
Don't cry, Ms. American Spy
We'll get Libby for his fibby
And then Cheney will fry
And that smirking chimp will finally wave us goodbye
Singin', this'll be the day donkeys fly
This'll be the day donkeys fly

They were singing:
Don't cry, Ms. American Spy
We'll get Libby for his fibby
And then Cheney will fry
And that smirking chimp will finally wave us goodbye
Singin', this'll be the day donkeys fly!


Hey, Les, why don't we just call each other assholes and get it over with. - Somebody on the old Southknoxbubba.net (if that was you, claim your quote and win net.fame!)

rikki's picture

Your willingness to use

Your willingness to use government secrecy as a crutch in this discussion is more repulsive than your avatar.

Of course, what Bush really needs to answer for is Ahmed Chalabi. Who was feeding Chalabi information that he was then passing along to Iran? Why has no one been held accountable for that treasonous act?

And what a great trick it was to deliberately break the intelligence hierarchy by inventing a new Pentagon office for Chalabi and his boys and inserting it above all the intelligence agencies, then to say, "Whoa, the intelligence bureaucracy failed!" and convert into one giant, unchecked surveillance apparatus to 'fix' the problem.

You must love the fact that all the various branches of law enforcement and intelligence gathering are no longer independent, no longer bother with judicial oversight and only report to a few trusted Congressmen. Think of all the arguments you can win by going "Nannynannybooboo, you don't know the details!" None of us will have any idea what the government is doing, and it will be a wet dream for you.

Factchecker's picture

Cute comics, Les.  But

Cute comics, Les.  But did they really say those things in the photos or did you get them from somebody like the author of Mallard Fillmore?  It's just BS, so what's the point in a serious debate?  Because you have nothing but ad hominem attack humor to resort to now?

Oh, is it that Joe Wilson has a wife named Valerie Plame and they, god forbid, have been known to appear in public?  Being a covert agent, Les, has nothing to do with disguises and name aliases, at least not in this country.  It is NOT the witness protection program.  It means that WHAT SHE DOES and perhaps (depending on her assignment) WHOM SHE WORKS FOR cannot be divulged.  She can certainly parade around in public as Valerie Plame or Valerie Wilson, wife of Joe Wilson.   HER IDENTITY, PER SE, IS NOT CLASSIFIED!!!  I remember Gemini making this point on SKB well over a year ago.

What science fiction teevee show are you basing your smear on, and what does this really have to with their lawsuit or Bush lies? 

You know the 9/11 commission was a sham.  Hand picked by Bush and with severe political limits imposed.  If they had implicated Bush in any way, you and your ilk would swift boat them just like you are Wilson and Plame.  Do you deny that?

  

Jim Treacher's picture

Hi! Would it be okay if you

Hi! Would it be okay if you just linked to me without putting up the pictures? Or maybe just put up the one you like best? Thanks in advance!

Les Jones's picture

rikki:"Your willingness to

rikki:

"Your willingness to use government secrecy as a crutch in this discussion is more repulsive than your avatar."

I'm not following you. Seriously.

My beef with Wilson is that he's a lying, partisan weasel who's milking this for all it's worth. And also I'm not convinced any crime was ever commited. Plame hadn't been overseas since 1997 according to Wilson's own book and had been a desk jockey ever since.

Examples of the lies Wilson is telling as frequently as this week are in the papers they filed in their lawsuit. Among other things, he tries to confuse the issue of whether Iraq sought yellowcake as opposed to whether they obtained yellowcake.

Also, I'm just generally frustrated with liberal bloggers so drunk on their own fumes that they spent years pretending they knew and have always known  exactly what happened and exactly what was said to whom by whom, and then proceeded to drive this thing into the ground for years, all to no practical effect whatsoever, and with subsequent events proving them wrong. What a stupid waste of time and political capital.

And if you think my avator is repulsive don't go here and see FlashelHoff in his full-sized, animated glory.

Factchecker: 

"Cute comics, Les.  But did they really say those things in the photos or did you get them from somebody like the author of Mallard Fillmore?"

Wilson said " In the meantime, I have a request. While I may engage in public discourse, my wife and my family are private people."

Then, of course, his wife appears in public whenever possible to shop her book deal, which just fell through this week. They only announced the lawsuit after the book deal evaporated. Both of them are shameless media hounds. It's sort of disgusting for them to deny it.

And of course, that media hogging extended to him including his sooper sekrit double naught spy wife's name in his Who's Who in America entry. Novak says his source told him that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA, but never told him her name. "Following my interview with the primary source, I sought out the second administration official and the CIA spokesman for confirmation. I learned Valerie Plame's name from Joe Wilson's entry in Who's Who in America."

Jim: sorry about that. It was so good I couldn't resist. 


Hey, Les, why don't we just call each other assholes and get it over with. - Somebody on the old Southknoxbubba.net (if that was you, claim your quote and win net.fame!)

Andy Axel's picture

My beef with Wilson is that

My beef with Wilson is that he's a lying, partisan weasel who's milking this for all it's worth.

A "lying, partisan weasel" who was George Bush Sr.'s Ambassador to Iraq prior to April Glaspie? Errrrr... yeah. G*dd*mned Republican Schedule A appointees.

Plame hadn't been overseas since 1997 according to Wilson's own book and had been a desk jockey ever since.

What, exactly, restricts one from doing NOC work while stateside? Hm?

Also, I'm just generally frustrated with liberal bloggers so drunk on their own fumes that they spent years pretending they knew and have always known exactly what happened and exactly what was said to whom by whom, and then proceeded to drive this thing into the ground for years, all to no practical effect whatsoever, and with subsequent events proving them wrong.

And, of course, *you're* completely in the right. Never mind that a jury has yet to render a verdict in the matter of US vs. I. Lewis Libby -- you can pretend that you know and have always known exactly what happened and what was said to whozzzzzzzzzzz.... zzzzzzz...

But, then again, perjury isn't a crime unless it's about a blowjob.

____________________________

"The iPod was not developed by Baptists in Waco." -- G.K.

Les Jones's picture

A "lying, partisan weasel"

A "lying, partisan weasel" who was George Bush Sr.'s Ambassador to Iraq prior to April Glaspie?

You're apparently not aware of the adversarial relationship between the Bush administration and many career bureaucrats in the State Department (and the CIA for that matter).

"Never mind that a jury has yet to render a verdict in the matter of US vs. I. Lewis Libby"

Who is being charged with obstruction and perjury. Even if he does get convicted whooptee-freakin doo. What, do you think Scooter's going to be the domino that brings down the Bush administration? If so you're wearing the same rose-colored glasses as Truthout.org.

Meanwhile Fitzgerald has told Rove he's free as a bird, and told Novak he can start writing that book now.


Hey, Les, why don't we just call each other assholes and get it over with. - Somebody on the old Southknoxbubba.net (if that was you, claim your quote and win net.fame!)

WhitesCreek's picture

Les wrote: "...it wasn't

Les wrote:

 "...it wasn't Rove. As Novak wrote recently, "One was by my principal source in the Valerie Wilson column, a source whose name has not yet been revealed. The other was by presidential adviser Karl Rove..."

Les, most of what you write is meanspirited nonsense but that statement surpasses your normal high standard for self contradicting incomprehensibilities.

 I congratulate you.

 Now, as a futher excercise in how deep a hole you can dig for yourself, would you mind giving us your take on Brewster Jennings?

 Steve

Factchecker's picture

Is that supposed to help your argument?

You're apparently not aware of the adversarial relationship between the Bush administration and many career bureaucrats in the State Department (and the CIA for that matter).

And, same as Steve's point, is this supposed to help your argument?   Have you also read W's daddy's quote about Joe Wilson?  Or did you know that Bush the wiser said:

"Proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, terrorism, narco-trafficking, people killing each other, fundamentalists killing each other in the name of God. These and more. Many more. As our analysts know, as our collectors of intelligence know - these are our enemies. To combat them we need more intelligence, not less. We need more human intelligence. That means we need more protection for the methods we use to gather intelligence and more protection for our sources, particularly our human sources, people that are risking their lives for their country. Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the name of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of traitors."

My, those are harsh words for his son and inner circle!  

You still haven't shown that Wilson ever lied.  There is a lot of swiftboating of the Wilsons, but no lies have been shown.  Whereas lies from the administration, Libby, Novak, the President, et. al. as well as by their apologists are too many and too frequent to catalog.

No matter.  Let's just suppose that the Wilsons are media hounds and glory seekers.  Not unlike so many upper echelon right-wingers, like Novak, treason-boy Geraldo, Jeff Gannon, O'Reilly, Coulter, Rush, Abramoff, Gingrich, DeLay, Ralph Reed, etc. etc.  That would not blow Valerie Plame's cover.  Everyone in D.C. new she was the wife of a prominent former ambassador.  There's no security violation or treason there.  Nothing illegal or inconsistent.  They can showboat all they want.  It is those you defend, and who wield so much power controlling our country that committed treason by exposing her occupation, not identity, for political gain and then lied to cover it up.  This has been documented over and over.  You're just keeping the drum beat of doubt going, just like you do to try and fool people about global warming.

So again, what is invalid about their lawsuit?  And what is defensible about the Bushies who treasonously leaked her name or about Bush's broken lie to fire those responsible?  The Wilsons zeal for the limelight, or lack of it, is a red herring.

Factchecker's picture

P.S.

Then, of course, his wife appears in public whenever possible to shop her book deal, which just fell through this week. They only announced the lawsuit after the book deal evaporated.

Check again.  Does this make you feel the least bit foolish?  You would help you arguments, not hurt them, if your logic was on stronger ground.

rikki's picture

Seriously?

I'm not following you. Seriously.

It's not complicated. The gist of your position is that we don't have enough evidence to make our case, and certainly not enough to convince you. Your implication is that we lack evidence because it does not exist. That's wrong. Much of the evidence in this case is classified or falls under executive privilege. Unless you are laboring under the illusion that we all have high-level security clearances, you are asking questions you know we can't answer. That's repulsive.

Your perspective on this issue is perversely myopic. There are levels and layers to the story you simply refuse to acknowledge. The story you are telling makes no sense. It is inconsistent with both the whole of the available information and with the behavior of the people you are trying to defend. You seem to think that "Joe Wilson is a liar" is a relevant and adequate reply to whatever might be said about this issue.

As for liberals "drunk on their own fumes", it's actually the 100-proof hypocrisy that has them raging. We went from 8 years where no Presidential lie or misdeed was too trivial or tangential to merit full-bore prosecutorial pursuit to 6 years of a President who can barely be trusted to speak in public without saying shit so stupid it takes the best spinmeisters months to weasel out of it. The day George W. Bush has to swear on a Bible and testify is the day the hypocrisy and insanity of the blowjob impeachment melts down. Bush knows this. It's the reason he refused to testify under oath regarding the Sept. 11 attacks or the "intelligence failures" that allegedly caused so many lies about Iraq to be told or any of the numerous other lies and misdeeds he has been party to.

Les Jones's picture

rikki:

"It's not complicated. The gist of your position is that we don't have enough evidence to make our case, and certainly not enough to convince you. Your implication is that we lack evidence because it does not exist. That's wrong. Much of the evidence in this case is classified or falls under executive privilege. Unless you are laboring under the illusion that we all have high-level security clearances, you are asking questions you know we can't answer. That's repulsive."

I'm not sure that national security got in Fitzgerald's way, considering he got testimony from all of those guys. He knew the sources right away, and still knows who first told Novak that Wilson's wife was a CIA agent.

"We went from 8 years where no Presidential lie or misdeed was too trivial or tangential to merit full-bore prosecutorial pursuit"

And that was a stupid, selfish thing the Republicans did that was bad for the country. Though idiots sometimes occupy it the office of the President of the United States is too important to distract with stupid political games, and I fully agree that the Republicans did exactly that with Monica Lewinsky. 


Hey, Les, why don't we just call each other assholes and get it over with. - Somebody on the old Southknoxbubba.net (if that was you, claim your quote and win net.fame!)

Rachel's picture

For the record:  I think

For the record:  I think Joe Wilson has an ego the size of the Grand Canyon.  I have no doubt he's enjoying the attention.  I suspect if I met him, I wouldn't much care for him personally.

So what?  The Bush administration did engage in a calculated attempt to smear him after he criticized the "intelligence" used in the run up to the Iraq War.  I don't even care if that's legal; I don't want my public officials sitting around spending their time thinking up ways to smear folks who criticize them.  That's not what I pay them to do.

And somebody in government did out Valerie Plame.  I don't know enough about the nuances of the laws governing such things to know if that was strictly illegal.  I do know that it was vindictive, and stupid, and possibly did some small damage to national security. 

As for Scooter - it looks like the Feds have him cold on obstruction and perjury.  That seems to me to be at least as bad as lying about sex.  Or don't Republicans care about the rule of law anymore?

Eleanor A's picture

You know

There's a tradition over on Daily Kos of posting recipes in any diary suspected of having been authored by a troll. I'm seriously considering letting y'all in on the secret of my fabulous blackberry cobbler.

In the meantime, Less (I think I like that spelling better) pours KoolAid all over himself again:

You're apparently not aware of the adversarial relationship between the Bush administration and many career bureaucrats in the State Department (and the CIA for that matter).

Apparently old Less isn't aware that many U.S. Ambassadors are folks who gave big bucks to Presidential campaigns...or people like David Wilkins, Ambassador to Canada, who's a former GOP Speaker of the SC State House...even ambassadors to smaller countries like El Salvador are usually partisan GOP activists under the current regime. Every Ambassador is nominated by the President and the vast majority are then confirmed by the Senate. (Some of the smaller countries like Burundi may be PA appointments that don't require Senate confirmation. However, I'd think Less would remember the flap over John Bolton, who was recess-appointed to the UN by Bush Jr. last year to get around that pesky Senate requirement.)

At least Bush's daddy hired some qualified people. The Washington Post reported in May 2004 that in Bush the Lesser's first term 23 ambassadorships had gone to so-called Bush "Pioneers" who donated $100,000 or more to the 2000 campaign. Ambassador to Great Britain Bob Tuttle's appointment is no exception: In addition to serving as a Pioneer in 2004, Tuttle donated $100,000 to the 2001 inauguration committee. Tuttle did such a bad job he was eventually replaced by Ronald Reagan's former head of Presidential Personnel, a political hack job if ever there was one.

So this assertion, as so many Less makes, is as full of holes as, well, Ann Coulter's head. Guess he finds it takes less effort to copy and link other people's artwork (didja ever respond to Jim Treacher above, Less?) than to waste time doing research.

Les Jones's picture

Eleanor A.:

Eleanor A.:

Wow, making fun of someone's name. I didn't realize you had made it all the way to fourth grade. Congratulations 

"didja ever respond to Jim Treacher above, Less?"

I sure did. Maybe your reading skills would have improved if you had graduated  through fifth grade. Then again, I could see why you wouldn't want to waste those extra three years. (This is a joke, Eleanor, and if you think it about real hard you might get it.)

To address some of the other comments:

The law under consideration here is "The Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982 (PL97-200, 50 U.S. Code Secs. 421–426) is a United States federal law that makes it a federal crime to intentionally reveal the identity of an agent who one knows to be in or recently in certain covert roles with a U.S. intelligence agency." Wikipedia definition.

To be guilty, then, someone would have had to intentionally reveal Plame's identity as an undercover agent, and she would have to have been considered a recently in a covert role. Simple scenario in which that wouldn't be the case:

Novak talks to main source. Source is filling him in, says that "Well sure Wilson got the job. His wife is in the CIA and recommended him for it." Source didn't realize Plame had previously been covert, and may not have even known her name (remember - he didn't give Novak the name; Novak found it in Who's Who in America).

Novak goes to Rove, says "Someone told me Wilson's wife is in the CIA." Rove says "Yeah, I heard that, too."

No one in that scenario knowingly revealed a covert agent.

 


Hey, Les, why don't we just call each other assholes and get it over with. - Somebody on the old Southknoxbubba.net (if that was you, claim your quote and win net.fame!)

Eleanor A's picture

Oh, OK

I'm the fourth-grader, when you're the one posting (um, not very funny) cartoons and pictures of David Hasselhoff naked. Got it.

I notice you didn't actually address my issue, which is that Joe Wilson was nominated to the Senate by Bush 1, which would seem to give him a bit of credibility. But that would blow holes in this elaborate fantasy you've constructed here, wouldn't it?

Les Jones's picture

Again with the avatar

I'm the fourth-grader, when you're the one posting (um, not very funny) cartoons and pictures of David Hasselhoff naked. Got it.

Eleanor, for you and Rikki, I changed my avatar to Derek Zoolander.  Because I love.

I notice you didn't actually address my issue, which is that Joe Wilson was nominated to the Senate by Bush 1, which would seem to give him a bit of credibility. But that would blow holes in this elaborate fantasy you've constructed here, wouldn't it?

I don't think I'm the one who has constructed elaborate fantasies (involving frog-marching Karl Rove in front of a parade of newscameras, for instance), but everyone's entitled to their opinion. So what if Bush, Sr., appointed Wilson. State is a bizarre place full of twisty passages.


Hey, Les, why don't we just call each other assholes and get it over with. - Somebody on the old Southknoxbubba.net (if that was you, claim your quote and win net.fame!)

rikki's picture

Source didn't realize Plame

Source didn't realize Plame had previously been covert, and may not have even known her name

The trouble with this explanation is knowledge of who works for the CIA, and particularly who is working covertly, is protected information. A person would need an extremely high security clearance to know that at all, at which point they should have a clue about why they are expected to be extremely guarded with such knowledge and how small slips can have drastic consequences.

This is not office gossip, and if it got to that stage before Novak was clued in, that just means the investigation moves a layer deeper. Someone with the clearance to know Plame's status and occupation was irresponsible with that information. Whoever it was deserves at the very least to be demoted to a position where they don't need a security clearance they can't handle.

The Chalabi incident raises the same issue. There is at least one person in this White House who can't keep delicate matters secret. That person has not been identified, and for all we know he or she is still a real threat to compromise yet more intelligence assets. It's a serious problem.

If losing Plame was small potatoes, losing the ability to decrypt Iranian communications certainly was not. Either way, however, you don't wait for a careless person to screw up really badly before you do something about their carelessness. Unless, of course, you've spent your whole life screwing up and hiding it and getting away with it, and you have an atrophied sense of responsibility and consequence.

 

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