Sat
Oct 24 2020
04:12 pm
South Waterfront area apartments
By: jbr

I was surprised at the rent on these new apartments off Sevier Avenue. I thought it was a typo.

Though that area is evolving in a nice way

Foggy Bottom Flats

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bizgrrl's picture

The Riverwalk Apartments are

Submitted by bizgrrl on Sat, 2020/10/24 - 4:34pm.

The Riverwalk Apartments are also expensive, can go to $2,340 for 2 bedroom.

Can't say which I would prefer, if I was willing/able to pay the price.

Like Foggy Bottoms because it's near the park.

Like Riverwalk because the units are one level.

Big prices for Sokno.

Treehouse's picture

The neighborhood

Submitted by Treehouse on Sat, 2020/10/24 - 7:55pm.

Riverwalk is lovely and right above the river. Foggy Bottoms doesn't face the river and doesn't fit in the neighborhood. But there may be a huge development soon which will really only benefit the ones who have a view of the river. I miss the days we were the red-headed step-child of Knoxville.

bizgrrl's picture

What's this about a new

Submitted by bizgrrl on Sun, 2020/10/25 - 6:08am.
(in reply to Treehouse)

What's this about a new development? Have any further info?

Treehouse's picture

This is not going away

Submitted by Treehouse on Sun, 2020/10/25 - 10:49am.
(in reply to bizgrrl)

Council pauses South Waterfront development at Suttree ...www.knoxnews.com › news › politics › 2020/03/11 › c...
Mar 11, 2020 — The Knoxville-based Dominion Development Group had proposed a 10-building, 230-unit complex across from Suttree Landing Park.

michael kaplan's picture

Was there a taxpayer subsidy

Submitted by michael kaplan on Sat, 2020/10/24 - 9:12pm.

Was there a taxpayer subsidy on this project through acquisition and transfer of the property, TIF, or other financial incentiveS?

Rachel's picture

That's (the property stuff) a

Submitted by Rachel on Sun, 2020/10/25 - 9:12pm.
(in reply to michael kaplan)

That's (the property stuff) a no no in the south waterfront. The developer could ask for a TIF but I haven't heard of it yet.

jbr's picture

Waterfronts are too valuable

Submitted by jbr on Sun, 2020/10/25 - 11:24am.

Waterfronts are too valuable to simply allow developers to dictate the terms of growth and change.

Great waterfronts are not dominated by residential development. Why? Because these are places that are full of people, day and night. They are the sites of festivals, markets, fireworks displays, concerts and other high-energy gatherings. A high concentration of residential development limits the diversity of waterfront use and creates constituencies invested in preventing 24-hour activity from flourishing.

an effective way to structure a vision process is to set a goal of creating ten great destinations along the entire waterfront

HOW TO TRANSFORM A WATERFRONT

The push for luxury waterfront condos yields a limited return for the broader public. The privatization of waterfronts comes in many forms, including luxury housing and high-end commercial developments. There are also less obvious ways that waterfronts have been commandeered that often get overlooked. Fences, a lack of crosswalks, poorly-marked entrances, walkways that terminate at private property--all these measures serve to make waterfronts feel less public and more private.

Where waterfronts go wrong

bizgrrl's picture

Need more visionaries and

Submitted by bizgrrl on Sun, 2020/10/25 - 12:26pm.
(in reply to jbr)

Need more visionaries and better management.

Rachel's picture

These apartments are across

Submitted by Rachel on Sun, 2020/10/25 - 9:12pm.
(in reply to jbr)

These apartments are across from the park. So public space directly on the river.

jbr's picture

Foggy Bottoms are. But that

Submitted by jbr on Mon, 2020/10/26 - 1:50am.
(in reply to Rachel)

Foggy Bottoms are. But that was intended for the south waterfront as a whole.

Also, I think what is intended are destinations more dynamic than parks. The parks might link the destinations together.

In a similar vein, parks should not serve as the raison d'être of the entire waterfront. Passive open space puts a damper on the inherent vibrancy of waterfronts, evident in cities such as New York, Vancouver, and Toronto that have relied too heavily on "greening" their waterfronts without mixing uses that draw people for different reasons at different times. The world's best waterfronts use parks as connective tissue, using them to link major destinations together. Helsinki, Stockholm, Sydney, and Baltimore have employed this strategy to fine effect.

How to transform a waterfront

JaHu's picture

...and San Antonio Riverwalk.

Submitted by JaHu on Mon, 2020/10/26 - 5:00am.
(in reply to jbr)

...and San Antonio Riverwalk.

Up Goose Creek's picture

Commercial (activity) corridors

Submitted by Up Goose Creek on Mon, 2020/10/26 - 9:45am.
(in reply to jbr)

Thinking from my travels the most active streets were near but not on the water. Baltimore has a huge public plazas right downtown but the commercial development is struggling, with the exception of one stand alone restaurant comparable to a larger Calhoun's. Alceanna street and Thames street in Fells point are hopping along with a couple of other streets that are tangental to the waterfront. Harbor East has condos and offices on the waterfront and they support a thriving business area a block or two away. I visited Pittsburgh in 2008 when Carson street was really hopping - a few blocks south of the riverfront. Closer to home you have Frazier ave in Chattanooga and real close to home lets talk about old Sevier ave. All these vibrant areas are a few blocks from the water. Please note in all these cases there are businesses on both sides of the street. I think that is a lot of the appeal. With a river the size of Knoxville's you just can't have that. San Antonio's Riverwalk is an exception because the river is small like a street and there are plenty of pedestrian bridges for walking over.

I know there are exceptions like boardwalks but they seem to depend on tourist development. I'd be interested to hear about successful 1 sided commercial (non tourist) corridors in the US. I don't claim to have traveled everywhere.

Jbr, You seem to have a personal vendetta about residences with views of the water. I don't appreciate it. In the time you have been complaining here on KnoxViews (and within the last 4 years) you could have purchased waterfront property on Pitner place for under 100K. You could have purchased a water view property across from me for 20K though that was a gut rehab. I have neighbors who purchased property on the main channel for under 200k. Within the last year I've seen Rivertowne Condos selling for not much more than that. Or City View though I don't know which units had the water views. I realize those days are past and flippers have infested the 37920. Just wanted to point out that during the years that your have been advocating depriving others of their homes or future homes you could have purchased someplace with a view of your own.

JaHu's picture

Let's dig up Sevier Ave. and

Submitted by JaHu on Mon, 2020/10/26 - 11:36am.
(in reply to Up Goose Creek)

Let's dig up Sevier Ave. and create our own Riverwalk!!! :) I'm not serious but the vision did just pop into my head. Ok imagine this, where Sevier runs parallel with Fort Loundon it's almost completely level from one end to the other.

Now the more I'm thinking about it, the less crazy it seems to me. The canal would only need to be the width of the road (35') and dug to the depth of about 6'-8' below the current street level, or maybe less. It could run from somewhere between Honeybee Coffee and the old Buck's pool with water being pumped from the river to keep the water at a determined level and only be used when needed. The old railroad tracks could be used to shuttle tourist from the world's fair site to the riverwalk area and even on to Ijams. Restaurants and taverns could line the canal with residential multihousing units situated behind with easy access to the canal. The canal could eventually have offshoots for more tourist shops. SKE school could remain where it's at and actually be needed for the new families moving in.

Crazy idea? Maybe! But it doesn't cost anything to imagine it.

Rachel's picture

Duh. You do realize that

Submitted by Rachel on Mon, 2020/10/26 - 11:22pm.
(in reply to JaHu)

Duh. You do realize that quite a bit of the Riverwalk is already built? Oh the river

JaHu's picture

Well... Yes I was pretty

Submitted by JaHu on Tue, 2020/10/27 - 5:28am.
(in reply to Rachel)

Well... Yes I was pretty aware of this. But... There are hundreds of canals dug here in the US and many were dug before we had the technology and equipment we have today. We have taken a giant step backwards in our imagination, creativity, ingenuity and ability, from what we were able to do a hundred, two hundred and even three hundred years ago. And it should be easier for us today than it was then.

Examples:
C&O Canal Washington DC
Dismal Swamp Canal
Major Canals Built in the American Nirtheast

(I don't count the canals in Florida. They were dug in sand and a child with a pail and shovel could dig those.)

I know digging up an existing road might not be the best idea, but what I am saying is Knoxville really needs something to really set it apart from other cities. Something that would give it a real identity. Let's be honest, the World's Fair Park is nice but its not something that'll be a, 'have to see' destination of choice. And the way Tennessee sports is these days it's looking a little questionable on its future draw to the area. Nashville, Memphis, even Chattanooga has a lot more to offer beyond sports. Chattanooga has long surpassed us as far as creativity in being a destination city.

fischbobber's picture

On that note....

Submitted by fischbobber on Tue, 2020/10/27 - 10:43am.
(in reply to JaHu)

If that's all you're looking for, put in a Trader Joe's that enforces the mask mandate. People will come from miles around, especially if they enforce the mask mandate. Nothing even close to following protocol north of Merchants. We need to start getting real and thinking outside the box if we want anything to work in Knoxville. Any project requiring community investment or input needs a solid public health plan at its core.

michael kaplan's picture

My article on the riverfront, written in 2008

Submitted by michael kaplan on Mon, 2020/10/26 - 9:46am.

City and county taxpayers, through tax-increment financing that could top $46 million, are funding a variety of infrastructure improvements that will provide public amenities, redesigned roads, and river bank stabilization in support of a series of private housing and retail projects.

(link...)

michael kaplan's picture

Development Strategies helped

Submitted by michael kaplan on Mon, 2020/10/26 - 9:50am.
(in reply to michael kaplan)

Development Strategies helped also to develop a tax increment financing (TIF) plan so that the public sector could determine when and how deeply it could support private reinvestment.

(link...)

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