Wed
Feb 5 2020
08:45 am
By: R. Neal

bizgrrl's picture

I love Carville's honesty.

I love Carville's honesty. It's also great to hear him say he will vote for the Democratic nominee, no matter who it is. He said he has no choice. Basically to save the country from Trump. Unlike many Bernie followers and now Yang followers.

Also heard Howard Dean on CNN a few moments ago. What a great guy. So positive.

Alex_Falk's picture

lmao

stfu talking head boomers on MSDNC
go away CIA rat boy bootyjugs

#berniewon

the blue party and the absolutely corrupt and incompetent professional consultant/media class that constitute it will **bend the knee** or we will force the party to self-immolate in order to create even the **possibility** of politics that serve the interest of the working class: the opposite of what either party does.

R. Neal's picture

Bernie has destroyed the

Bernie has destroyed the Democratic party, just like Trump destroyed the Republican party. The only difference is that Trump wins.

Alex_Falk's picture

Good!

I don't think the job is done yet, but I agree that bernie and trump are similar in the sense that they necessarily radically reconfigure many aspects of their host parties. However, the material consequences of each reconfiguration are entirely dissimilar.

Popular politics that address the needs of the working class would have won.

Popular politics that address the needs of the working class *will* win -- unless the liberal aristocracy + courtesans succeed in ratf*cking us.

All we can do is try! Living in a decaying, murderous, oligarchic empire with spiraling inequality & looming climate disaster -- politics is our only hope for a humane future.

fischbobber's picture

Bernie and Michael

I'm thinking some kind of Bloomberg/Sanders alliance for eight years, including succession to the next generation of leaders, might be just what this nation needs.

Alex_Falk's picture

"Carville, who previously

"Carville, who previously endorsed Sen. Michael Bennet, D-Colo., for president, insisted that Democratic donors "will not give a popsicle to the DNC" with the current state of the 2020 field."

carville has (in an excellent way) with this statement laid bare who and what the blue party is in service to.

fischbobber's picture

Problems

Before we worry about bringing the party together we need to figure out a way to count the people playing Red Rover in Iowa's gyms. The vote will take care of itself and hopefully we will be united at the polls in November. Right now, it appears the DNCs problem is not who, but how. We need a national organization by fall.

Alex_Falk's picture

that's fair

I agree we need a national organization with a strong ground game to beat trump -- fortunately, there is a candidate who has a movement behind them.

fischbobber's picture

There's several

I've noticed several candidate with strong ground games. Again, the vote will take care of itself.

Alex_Falk's picture

only one

only one has a political movement and only one does movement politics
only one can open the door to us having a chance at avoiding a barbaric future

R. Neal's picture

And only one has no chance of

And only one has no chance of beating Trump, and that's Bernie.

R. Neal's picture

P.S. if you want to see a

P.S. if you want to see a professionally organized and operated ground game, check out Bloomberg.

calloway1972's picture

Bloomberg is a Napoleonic

Bloomberg is a Napoleonic jerk.

Term limits, big cokes, and guns. He's the perfect blend of things right and left to piss off everyone. Maybe if he spends a few more hundred million they'll name the next pandemic after him.

calloway1972's picture

Bloomberg is a Napoleonic

Bloomberg is a Napoleonic jerk.

Term limits, big cokes, and guns. He's the perfect blend of things right and left to piss off everyone. Maybe if he spends a few more hundred million they'll name the next pandemic after him.

Or maybe he's just looking at buying the Democrat party in a fire sale.

R. Neal's picture

Hmm. Sounds like he hit a

Hmm. Sounds like he hit a nerve. Trump seems worried, too. Hmmm.

Alex_Falk's picture

neal

is your brain so smooth and your soul so hollow than you think the oligarch republican bloomberg has anything on the ground other than his history-making money drop and the corollary thousands of consultant class rats who immediately jumped on his teat? and birdbrained boomers who are happy to vote for whatever they saw on daytime cable tv commercials? pathetic

Alex_Falk's picture

might as well

might as well just end it all now if the avatar of the blue party is a cartoon billionaire buying the election, rotted country. burn it.

R. Neal's picture

Your arguments are remarkably

Your arguments are remarkably persuasive.

Alex_Falk's picture

a joke

i am being hyperbolic to give the readers of this forum some sense of how bloomberg appears to most people under the age of 50. calloway’s characterization is pretty spot on coming from his perspective as well. bloomberg running is a sick joke

luckily, bloomberg has almost no path to the nomination so sure, let him buy macbooks and 6 months health insurance for all the interns and out-of-work blue party apparatchiks

R. Neal's picture

Ok, then.

Ok, then.

fischbobber's picture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp5JCrSXkJY

I agree with you. The DNC has no direction. We have rising star leaders that are Democrats simply because they have no where else to go. The Dems need a leader that can step up, take on a limited number of core, agreed upon issues, and unite the party.

Plus, Bloomberg's killing it and he's sticking to one issue. I think you're right Randy. As of right now, Bloomberg is the guy to beat.

fischbobber's picture

Plus,

We'll take the Senate if Bloomberg's running the show.

Alex_Falk's picture

you people

you people are insane.

what, pray tell, is bloomberg “killing”?

Knoxoasis's picture

That would be quite a trick,

That would be quite a trick, considering you lost West Virginia and Alabama yesterday.

Pickens's picture

and flattering to the Knoxviews host

R. Neal is doing this as a service.

Knoxoasis's picture

There's always time to

There's always time to recruit Mitt Romney.

Alex_Falk's picture

blue party boomers

Bloomberg-Romney 2020 : “two republican oligarchs because we stand for absolutely nothing besides having our brains scrambled by cable TV”

Alex_Falk's picture

Tiny Soda Mike Runs in 2020 On Banning Popular Bodega Items

Tiny Soda Mike Runs in 2020 On Banning Popular Bodega Items
you * cant * make * this * stuff * up

Bloomberg: "Donald Trump has broken yet another promise. He vowed to get all flavored e-cigarettes off the market, but he backtracked because he thinks it will help his re-election campaign. I'll take the other side of that bet."

bizgrrl's picture

Are you a Trump clone?

Are you a Trump clone?

Alex_Falk's picture

no

but the republican oligarch bloomberg has much more in common with trump than i do, FWIW

bizgrrl's picture

Fooled me.

Fooled me.

Alex_Falk's picture

nice

you really owned me with that one

Roger Fleenor's picture

Alex

You are the most tiresome, self deluded purveyor of opinion this side of Greg Johnson.

Alex_Falk's picture

k

what political strategy are you agitating for?

fischbobber's picture

Hey there Skippy

Who do you this has the best chance of turning the ship of state towards progressive ideas. Bloomberg has, by far, the best chance of rebuilding the Democrats big tent. Just because you don’t like him doesn’t mean he won’t win. The comparison contrast with Bloomberg should be measured against Trump. I suspect the rest of the Democratic challengers would be happy to work with him on policy if bridges aren’t burned and Bloomberg gets the nomination.

Alex_Falk's picture

you shouldn't have to ask

i have posted who i support and why i support them & that answers your question

i disagree with your assertion about bloomberg but i am happy to listen to any arguments you can make for that so i can begin to understand where bloomberg-curious blue boomers have gone wrong in their thinking

fischbobber's picture

Support

This isn't about support. We're handicapping the race. The votes will take care of themselves.

And I think we have a fighting chance of keep the Senators in Alabama and West Viginia with Bloomberg. Trump hasn't done anything for them and Bloomberg will be happy to spread that message.

It's still early. A lot can happen between now and November.

Alex_Falk's picture

not a 538 fan

i am not a 538 fan, but perhaps i will hold my fire on republican-oligarch-big-government-bodega-ban-boss mike until after nate silver puts his chances at winning majority at dem convention above 0.1%. sanders currently sitting at 50% and is projected to likely sweep the primary.

Alex_Falk's picture

unity

everyone agrees perez should have resigned a long time ago and should right now as well i trust :)

fischbobber's picture

Leadership

If it indeed is Sanders time, he will step forward and command the nomination of the party.

However, that has not yet happened and Bloomberg has stepped forward and filled a void. Bloomberg has already announced his whole hearted support of whomever gets the nomination. That's leadership. It's what this party has been lacking at the top committee levels.

We've actually fielded pretty great candidates up and down the ticket for a while. We just can't get our shit together within the party. We all know a great society needs access to education, access to healthcare, access to a broad variety of living wage jobs, security and fundamental rights within those jobs, access to food and housing, access to recreation and community, access to a fair and just system of laws and regulations that take all into consideration and treat all equally, access to clean air, access to clean water, we just can't agree on how to get from here to there. Maybe Bloomberg is the guy to tie it all together. He certainly has presented that as his intent, and until he shows me otherwise, I'll roll with that.

Alex_Falk's picture

intent

you do remember bloomberg intended—no, threatened to run a general election campaign as an independent if sanders won the nom in 2016?

bezos rang up bloomberg to plead for him to run just months ago.

open your eyes, if only a bit. the oligarchs are scared. politics is a battle over contradictory material interests. bloomberg and ordinary people are on opposite teams

a republican oligarch is not a progressive, dont get fooled by the window dressing.

fischbobber's picture

Ahhh....

When did I say I was a purist?

Alex_Falk's picture

there is no purity

but you do have to decide what side you are on

Alex_Falk's picture

when your ultra-billionaire friends come calling..

..and you have to cook up a general election platform in no time flat in order to mount a defense of your class interests, some corners have to be cut!

"BLOOMBERG PLAGIARIZED PARTS OF AT LEAST EIGHT OF HIS PLANS" (link...)

Knoxgal's picture

It’s hard to tell

It’s hard to tell who I dislike more, Alex Falk for his juvenile bombastic arrogance, or the cult leader Bernie Sanders who promises everything and has accomplished nothing in 30 years of politics. Apparently, not many people like him either.
Alex, I’m going to take a wild guess and say you don’t have many friends. Hint: you don’t make them by being a troll. Notice only a couple of people are willing to engage with you here. Do you think you persuade people to your point of view by insulting and browbeating them? You make me sad. For you.

Alex_Falk's picture

i'm being antagonistic because yall need to wake TF up

bernie sanders and his movement partners in congress are arguably the most popular politicians in the country. i suppose if beating trump (and more importantly, the GOP) isn't important to you you can carry on with the think-tank-seeded smears & pundit-parrot pearl clutching & left-punching & redbaiting. the progressive movement will still be here when you change your mind!

Knoxoasis's picture

1972. Just sayin.

1972. Just sayin.

Alex_Falk's picture

2016

just saying

but you're right -- just like 1972, a panicking blue party apparatus is dedicated to destroying the progressive movement. their "resistance" to the far-right is 50% kayfabe and 100% ineffectual: the progressive movement is the real enemy of the blue party.

that the deck is stacked against us doesn't mean i'm going to become a reactionary, though -- we have people power and it is better to go down fighting for *something* instead of signing up for whatever the nearest billionaire has on offer.

Knoxgal's picture

Are you sure

Are you sure you’re not a Russian troll? You sure talk like one.
Bernie Sanders is a left wing Trump. He leads a cult where he and his followers believe “Only I can do it”.
In the meantime, he has accomplished NOTHING in 30+ years in Congress, the majority of his “Revolution” candidates did not win in the 2018 midterms, and he did not increase voter turnout in Iowa as he promised. He fought hard to keep the caucuses in Iowa because he knows he benefits from the undemocratic process they represent and he still did not win. Besides Trump, he’s the biggest threat to the Democratic Party.

And Alex, if you think being antagonist is going to wake me TF up, or anyone else on here for that matter, you are mistaken.

Alex_Falk's picture

please

send my dossier over to the house committee on unamerican activities, by all means— or come to south knox and say hello, i am not posting under a pseudonym

Alex_Falk's picture

excuse me!

excuse the triple-post glitch above!^

in all honesty: i don't care what you all think about me as a forum poster, i just hope to impress on anyone reading this a bit of what politically active folks are thinking outside the liberal media bubble.

Roger Fleenor's picture

LIBERAL MEDIA BUBBLE?

I have existed among Trump Groupies swaggering then screaming epithets and approval of violence against minorities, Liberals and Democrats since his announcement to run. Trump has fulfilled every promise to his supporters where I work, you would think,It's ok though, Trump is the greatest of insult comics and keeps his groupies constantly engaged and entertained even as wages are cut, people are laid off and jobs leave the country. There would have been violence if Trump had been removed from office, there will be violence if he is defeated at the polls and it seems obvious that the Senate would nullify his defeat. You are fucking living in your own bubble Falk and I suspect the when it comes to crisis you will take the chicken shit way out and wail away at your keyboard. Step up, take a punch from a Trump Groupie and report back to Randy

Alex_Falk's picture

o....ok?

i will let you both know when i have been punched by a “trump groupie” :)

fischbobber's picture

Point here.

Young voters were up 6% in Iowa during the primary. That is significant and the Democratic Party needs those votes. We need Bernie's votes, regardless of how the primaries end up.

If we hang together as a party, everything will fall into place.

Alex_Falk's picture

indeed!

thanks, i agree! the progressive movement is for sure offering amnesty to anyone who would like to join!

fischbobber's picture

Just as....

The progressive movement needs to put their own ego behind after the convention and be bound by whatever common goals are set before the party. How many elections do we want to lose by putting infighting ahead of a national strategy? Listen to Carville. Vote for the nominee. Be polite and respectful during the primaries and the votes and subsequent nominee will take care of itself.

If you're right, and Sanders gets the nomination, how many voters are you willing to drive off from voting in the general, just so you can pound your chest and scream about how fucking smart you are?

Take heed to your own candidate: (link...)

Alex_Falk's picture

“polite and respectful”

“polite and respectful” doesnt mean sit down and shut up while an oligarch tries to buy the election & the word burns around us

the progressive movement is independent of the blue party — they have to earn our support — we owe them nothing and this non-left political party acting as universal hostage-taker for all left politics (i.e. telling us the correct way to act and the correct way to vote) just underlines the contradictory nature of the two groups’ goals.

jmcnair's picture

Dude.

Dude. Know your audience. I generally want to agree with you on specifics, but you really wear out your welcome with the "wake TF up" rhetoric.

fischbobber's picture

Agreed.

It's not like this is anyone's first rodeo. It would be better to build a Knoxville voting block than tear down whatever foundation there is.

Alex_Falk's picture

"ground game"

why accuse members of the progressive movement whose candidate has the largest "organic reach" (industry jargon) of being fertilized by slavic botnets when you can buy your own domestic fertilizer, surrogates, plagiarize your platform and fake it til you make it?

"The Bloomberg campaign is trying an ad strategy familiar to every other startup with a ton of cash and a questionable business model: Paying influencers to make it seem cool." :: (link...)

fischbobber's picture

Top to bottom

Perez has a way bigger role than Sanders here. First and foremost, the party needs to come together. Because the Republicans will be unified and they are going to be cheating.

Alex_Falk's picture

perez needs to go

^something mister carville and i agree on

but in the meantime the progressive movement will simply have to overwhelm perez-backed forces and achieve a majority of convention delegates —before they can do what the blue party has done cyclically and bury another progressive movement.

fischbobber's picture

Perez backed forces

It's Perez's job to sell the platform to donors, not the other way around.

All candidates, including Bernie and Warren, are Perez backed forces.

In 2016 the party hit a perfect storm of miscalculations, mistakes and animosity. Had any one of several factors been changed the outcome would have been different. There were personality conflicts and strategic errors. First and foremost, we must fix that to win.

Knoxoasis's picture

You seem to assume that Alex

You seem to assume that Alex and his co-religionists value winning per se above all. Let me remind you of this. I don't think anything has changed.

Alex_Falk's picture

hmm

not sure if there are any controversial or objectionable statements in that 2016 cnn article, i didnt see any anyway :)

Knoxoasis's picture

QED

QED

Alex_Falk's picture

you’re welcome!

thought you’d like that :)

Knoxgal's picture

Oh, I remember well

I remember well what Susan Sarandon said in 2016. So how has that worked out for her and all the Bernie folks who voted 3rd party? I haven’t seen Sarandon inserting herself into the news since Trump was elected just as I haven’t seen a large number of the down ballot candidates Sanders has supported be elected. More importantly, how has it worked out for the people directly in the path of Trump’s policies, the environment that’s being raped, science and the press that have lost a sizable chunk of their credibility by being chipped away at by Trump, and our world standing amongst our allies? How has it worked out for the rule of law and our democratic principles? But it’s OK, the Revolution is coming.

If you want to support a progressive candidate, support Warren. She’s a few rungs down from my top choices, but at least she doesn’t sell herself as the Messiah and she’s not leading a cult.

Alex_Falk's picture

quick point in case you misunderstood

my point is not that i am an accelerationist, i voted for clinton even in a swing state where it was meaningless. susan’s point was correct, though: better or worse, trump is a faster catalyst for paradigm shift than clinton would have been.

my point is that susan can vote for who she wants and you can’t win people over by preemptively shaming them for not doing what you tell them to (...or else X bad consequence happens etc.). that posture and strategy defined HRC 2016 (“trump is a bad man and you are a deplorable human being if you dont vote for me instead”) : failed then, will fail again. you have to be *for something* more concrete than platitudes

yall are just mad that i am giving yall a taste of your own bitter medicine with regard to our shared near future. left-punching, vote-shaming, guilt-tripping liberals really are poison to the progressive movement, call them lib lads or liz lads if you like.

Knoxoasis's picture

I certainly did not

I certainly did not anticipate disagreement.

R. Neal's picture

Bernie Bros and bots have

Bernie Bros and bots have only one arrow in their quiver.
Which is, they will vote (well the Bros, not the bots, they can't vote) only for Bernie and no one else. They believe actual Democrats will vote for the nominee, whoever it is, even if it's Bernie.

They use this to coerce actual Democrats into nominating their guy, otherwise they will take their marbles and go home, handing Trump another victory, just like last time.

The answer is turnout. When voters turn out, Democrats win.
Sadly, real Democrats will not turn out for Bernie. Look at the turnout in Iowa. Real Democrats are tired of his bullshit. Look at the totals in Iowa. Not-Bernie got 3x the votes v. Bernie.

Bernie is a fraud. His followers are, in large, a cult. He cannot win the general election.

Alex_Falk's picture

sounds like a terrible conundrum!

sounds like a terrible mess you liberals are in!

you don’t have a way to fight the right, yet your power brokers refuse to support left political programs or movements — it fights them actively.

middle and lower parts of the party structure are simply “experts” in corporate make-work consultancy available to the highest bidder. if you think bernie “isnt a democrat”, tell me what you think bloomberg is? does “being a democrat” actually *mean* anything?

sadly, progressives will not turn up and vote for another hollow neoliberal vessel — nor a republican oligarch. thats the dead end of liberal triangulation — literally a cartoon monopoly-man that nobody likes.

bernie won iowa and is projected to continue winning —and liberals are peeing their pants. see yall in nov, when i will do what i did in nov2016 and vote in tennessee against the gop and for progressives.

bizgrrl's picture

Hah! Another Trumpism. I

Hah! Another Trumpism. I don't see anyone announcing Bernie has won Iowa, except for Bernie.

Alex_Falk's picture

heh

we handily won the popular vote, as liberals like to point out about HRC 2016.

R. Neal's picture

You call 2300 or so votes out

You call 2300 or so votes out of 172,000+ "handily"? Sounds like Trump math. What about the 126,000+ who voted for Not-Bernie?

Alex_Falk's picture

who turned up in iowa

43.6k over 37.5k is a decent margin. at least bernie waited a few days to speak on the results, unlike the other person in question who declared victory with 0% reporting.

never said we had this in the bag!
but we have the best shot the ways things are looking in this moment.

yall can join the progressives when you are ready :)

if you decide to promote someone progressives wont turn out for and that becomes reality, i guess we will just wait and see what happens.

R. Neal's picture

I think you meant 45,826 to

I think you meant 45,826 to 43,195.

Alex_Falk's picture

lol kay

this is just getting silly but you know i am referring to first choice — i.e. who actually turned up for each candidate before the red rover stuff distorted the allocations.

Knoxgal's picture

I'm more concerned about you

yall are just mad that i am giving yall a taste of your own bitter medicine with regard to our shared near future. left-punching, vote-shaming, guilt-tripping liberals really are poison to the progressive movement, call them lib lads or liz lads if you like.

No, I'm more concerned about you. I say this in all sincerity, Alex, I hope you have health insurance.

Alex_Falk's picture

..

that is clearly a threat of some kind toward me, the only question is exactly what kind

Knoxoasis's picture

Psikhushka.

Psikhushka.

Knoxgal's picture

My apologies

My apologies if it came across that way. It never crossed my mind that it would because it’s so far removed from my intent. I promise, it’s genuine concern, although I recognize that it might be out of line.

Alex_Falk's picture

you're good!

no worries :)

R. Neal's picture

Wow. Bernie's on the debate

Wow. Bernie's on the debate stage talking about working with Republicans to advance policy. Based on what we've been told here, that does not compute for a true blue progressive.

Alex_Falk's picture

united by love for bernie when asked about HRC

fischbobber's picture

Isn't there supposed to be some sort of verification;

emblem or stamp? This looks photoshopped to me.

fischbobber's picture

I'm holding out.

It's a ways from March still. The more ideas we allow our party to put on the table, the better our platform will be. I like that the Democrats seem to be rowing in the same direction.

Alex_Falk's picture

consider the source

“2008 and 2016 clinton backer warns of big mistake”
“strategist from party of strategic failure warns about altering strategy”

“off the liberal deep end”
this is a semantic issue, but what is funny is that the centrists are what i would consider off the “liberal deep end” — thats why i and many independents support the candidate who isn’t just running on liberalism. sanders is the best fit for apolitical, non-ideological folks because direct critique of our dysfunctional society is just common sense to ordinary people.

Up Goose Creek's picture

Posturing

Since a picture is worth a thousand words I'll let Amy's expression depict my opinion of all this posturing.

"https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQSbHAPUYAA4XFB.jpg

bizgrrl's picture

Perfect:)

Perfect:)

Alex_Falk's picture

the left low key loves the klob

she isn't doing the sorkin-obama facsimile bit that mayo pete is doing (meaningless hope-and-changey stump speeches that marinate squishy centrism in some kind of post-modern word salad)

she isn't pitching a "left light" liberal progressivism that substitutes popular class politics with bourgeois-liberal identity politics (& effectively kneecapping the progressive movement)

her brain isn't actively dribbling out of her ears as she succumbs to dementia while speaking an all-together different kind of word salad than pete's

she ruthlessly attacks the weakness of the other moderate candidates we dislike & her candidacy does not pose a threat to the progressive movement

what can the left say about the klob?
salute!

bizgrrl's picture

That's enough. This is not

That's enough. This is not Facebook.

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