That this was in a Unitarian church, I was afraid that this might be the motive.

So someone took the eliminationist rhetoric of the wingers to heart, huh?

(But it's just a joke, right?)

____________________________

"It's gettin' so a businessman can't expect no return from a fixed fight. Now, if you can't trust a fix, what can you trust?"

Killing liberals...for Jesus...in a church.

That's as ironic as alleging that you're the party of Jesus and torturing, as Jesus was tortured.

I'm ready to fire up Old Sparky for this SOB, but you know what? The UUs are good enough people that they would be out there protesting it, which makes them far better people than me....

Shooting random people is a proven means of problem solving, no?

[/sarcasm]

I really don't know what is wrong with some people.

Brian A.
I'd rather be cycling.

On second thought, I DON'T want this worthless old bastard to die. I want him to spend his remaining years as the 'wife" of a large, preferably Muslim, prisoner who finds him real attractive and shows his affection on a daily basis.

I'm not taking this very well, obviously...

We're going to have more misdirected anger events like this as people get left behind by our robber baron economy. Pretty twisted that this guy thinks liberals and gays are responsible for his predicament, but there are a lot more like him.

Thanks for doing this summary for those of us who are at work and couldn't watch the press conference.

Apparently the guy's letter, found in his car in the parking lot, says that he singled TVUUC out because of its "liberal" stances. On what we still don't know.

Sounds like he was also angry about not finding work and hadn't had a job in two years.
Also, his neighbors mentioned that he had issues with "inconsistencies" in the bible.

So far the most we can say is that the shooter is a mentally unstable person under economic stress who blamed his problems on "liberals".

While I don't want to diminish the responsibility of the shooter for this crime, I also think its important to put his act into cultural and political context.

To those on the right and the left who look for "wedge issues" to divide a complex world into "us" and "them", your words can have real consequences on the mentally unstable.

Something I incorporate into my writing (though admittedly not always my online writing) is the following mental check: "Could my words be misinterpreted to inspire hateful thoughts and actions?" If so, I do some serious rethinking and re-wording.

Its time to tone down the extreme and hateful rhetoric that has become so prevalent in our society. Culture creators, politicians and media people ( including radio personalities, bloggers, print journalists/columnists, and tv news) take note: when you blame liberals or conservatives for complex problems, when you paint the world with a broad brush of right/wrong, black/white, you open the door to misunderstanding, and potentially hatred.

And when you get on a board like this and start throwing around nasty comments about Muslims, you disrespect TVUUC and everything it stands for.

-Sugarfatpie

"X-Rays are a hoax."-Lord Kelvin

He went in to a church to perform a cowardly act of violence against the unarmed because of the church's liberal stances. A liberal churchgoer with real courage, took shotgun blasts to save lives while another tackled and unarmed him before he could do the damage he planned. Not only is the guy a failure in this crime, he is a failure in life. I hope he is reminded everyday of how liberals with true courage did indeed cause his failure in this instance.

Formerly a member of 101st Airborne? He must have sucked there as well.

My best thoughts to those affected by this act.

Great, the 18 hours per day of cheap slander against liberals WNOX pipes into East Tennessee homes is finally paying off. RedDog has himself a hero! All the cowardly halfwits who reflexively call anyone to their left 'socialist' can now mouth condolences while they mutter gleefully under their breath about witchcraft and fags. Should some remnant of civility twitch inside their vacant brains, they can just turn on Boortz or Rush or Phil or Hannity or Levin, whatever the hour of the day, and snap safely back into groupthink. Liberals are out to destroy America.

It has been months, if not years, since Republicans have had the courage to speak honestly about major problems facing our country or about the lawless perverts they put in charge, and now they don't have to! They can just dispense with one of their habitual insults -- "commie pinko fag," "far left whacko" or "liberal elitist" -- and know that the target will no longer mistake it for gamesmanship, but see it as cowardice. Republicans have worked hard to establish that they don't give a damn what anyone else thinks, and now they have sharpened their message to, if not a knifepoint, at least a tight cluster of hot lies.

Commander Limbaugh, the troops are tuned to 100.3 FM awaiting further instructions disregarding liberals.

I'm very much afraid Limbaugh etc. will try to spin it as "well, when you take such extremist stands on the gay agenda, you might need to worry....."

I was praying this guy was just a kook who picked a place at random. To hear he deliberately targeted some of the most tolerant, helpful folks in town is just sickening.

"well, when you take such extremist stands on the gay agenda, you might need to worry....."

That to me sounds like it would be actionable. Half the crap these morons spew, including the chief moron at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., is actionable. But alas, no action.

Any chance that some "good" may come from this tragedy? Perhaps there will be a community backlash or revulsion against intolerance?

Brian A.
I'd rather be cycling.

Latest update:

Knoxville News Sentinel

The man who is accused of Sunday’s church shooting was described today by a long-time acquaintance as a loner who hates “blacks, gays and anyone different from him.’’

Also, it turns out there is a connection to the church. The killer's ex-wife is a past member.

The guy was facing unemployment, losing his food stamps, rising food prices, trying to feedan SUV, and problems related to the VA and who knows what. Perhaps he just reached the end of his rope and found something to latch onto as his way out of this life. The hate came out of issues that we as a community and a nation can address.

It's not that random.

Let's not forget to ta abount these other issues.

In a time of confusion, while waiting to hear from friends as to what we can do to assist these families another friend pointed me to one small yet very positive action we can take. Go give blood.

My friend Lee pointed this out to me. Thanks, Lee.

Mention the TVUUC account and they will be credited

(link...)

This reminds me of Hotel Rwanda and how hate radio was used to stir up people against one another and the massacres that followed.
Real sickness, hate radio. (yeah, you know who you are.)

As Jesus showed, the lovers of peace are often the first victims of violence. This senseless attack reinforces it. May God have mercy on his soul 'cause I don't think the state of TN is gonna have any pity.

My heart goes out to the people who have endured this madness. Real justice might demand that those who stir up such twisted passions in these mentally unbalanced people also pay a penalty. No profit there, eh?

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson

RJ Eskow at Huffington Post: Monster: Who Really Killed the Knoxville Unitarians?

Jim Adkisson of Powell, Tennessee was the man with his finger on the trigger. He had mental health problems, and a hard and bitter life. He apparently left a letter explaining that he hated the church for its liberal beliefs and opinions. And the church had a sign outside indicating it welcomed gays and lesbians.

Who really killed those Unitarians? Was it the preachers who spread hatred and intolerance? The politicians who court and flatter them instead of condemning their hate speech? The media machine that attacks liberals, calls them "traitors" and suggests you speak to them "with a baseball bat"? The economic system that batters people like Jim Adkinson until they snap, then tells them their real enemies are gays and liberals and secular humanists?

If you ask me, it was all of the above.

I'm reluctant to step out of the grief and sorrow of this and into speculating, finger pointing, etc. But such discussions are one of the reasons we're here and we must get our lives back on track however we can.

It does disturb me that the "it takes two sides" claim, also known as being "Fair and Balanced," too often prevails anymore. This is a copout and one of the worst forms of modern political correctness. Very sadly it has effectively replaced the Fairness Doctrine.

I find Rikki's comment to be fairly spot on. Huge, mainstream sections of the right routinely use hate as a tool to fire up their flocks while insisting they aren't just using metaphors. How many times does Rush punctuate with "I'm not kidding, folks!"? Don't forget the GOP woman on Fox who had two successive Freudian slips: one calling OBL "Obama," and then laughing that she or "they" would like him killed off too. Ha ha.

Only when something like this event occurs do they distance themselves from such events. You never hear anything remotely similar coming from the left. To the extent you may, it's not more than an occasional misguided extremist, or just a normal person emotionally overreacting, and who has an audience no bigger than the size of this one, compared to millions who ditto Rush, Coulter, Savage, Hannity, O'Reilly, Liddy, et. al. for many hours every day. And their words are very selective and deliberate.

No doubt this guy is mentally unstable. But how many more of these guys are out there? Many, I fear. And which party's policies are really most responsible for the widespread societal problems that pushed this guy off the deep? And who's encouraging the marginally stable to take the final plunge?

Perhaps it's time again to obtain the sponsor lists of hate radio and organize a boycott campaign. It's something. Maybe a start.

FWIW, I hadn't read the last few comments while I was composing mine.

Also, my thoughts are with all of those who were in attendance, as well as my deepest sympathies and condolences to the victims and their families. I'm having trouble focusing today, but am most concerned for them. Thanks for your statements too, Randy and others.

Somehow I knew George Bush was connected to this....

"That to me sounds like it would be actionable. Half the crap these morons spew, including the chief moron at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., is actionable. But alas, no action."

"he will separate them one from the another as a shepard separates the sheep from the goats and he will place the sheep at his right hand but,the goats at the left.Then the King will say to those at his right hand,"Come,O blessed of my Father,inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;

for I was hungry and you gave me food.I was thirsty and you gave me drink,I was a stranger and you welcomed me,I was naked & you clothed me,I was sick & you visited me,I was in prison and you came to me.

Then the righteous will answer him,'Lord,when did we see thee hungry and feed thee,or thirsty and give thee drink? And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee,or naked and clothe thee? And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?'

And the King will answer them,"Truly,I say to you,as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren,you did it onto me."

A few years back there was song titled "What if God was One of Us."From this passage I gather that the "foundation of the world"
means God is all of us.

The way in which the God in all of us can be served is to work everyday to create a just "foundation of the world" in this transitory life.

However,according to scripture,righteousness alone will not allow us to sit on the right hand.We must truly understand the frailty of the "foundation of the world" & treat the"least of these my brethern." with dignity.

These wonderful people of this peaceful church welcome the "least of these my brethren".

My deepest sympathies for those many, many folks caught up in this tragic event. Like many, I have friends who attend there or have in the past, and I know we all hate the history of the church has been marked by such a crime.

Thanks for your work to provide info on what happened, too, and for tracking responses to this terrible event.

Please allow me to post this poem as a memorial to those lost and as a wish to those injured in one way or another by this tragedy.

"Desiderata" (Latin for "desired things", plural of desideratum)

-- written by Max Ehrmann in the 1920s --

Go placidly amid the noise and the haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible, without surrender,
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even to the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons;
they are vexatious to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain or bitter,
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs,
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals,
and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love,
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment,
it is as perennial as the grass.
Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline,
be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be.
And whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life,
keep peace in your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson

new Let's Call It
Submitted by gonzone on Mon, 2008/07/28 - 2:09pm.

Let's call this what it really is: terrorism.

How about we call it what it appears to have been, “Attempted Suicide.”

Perhaps his reasoning was like other indiscriminate shooters before him because he wanted to be known rather than to be a body found against a tree with a shotgun in his mouth and his brain missing; or, in this case, because he retained enough of his Christian upbringing that he feared the possible consequences of suicide or because he feared the repercussions of killing Christians and used the UU’s as what he might have considered a safe congregation to stage his suicide.

While I consider myself to be more liberal than conservative, this is not the time to blame the administration, Republicans, Conservative Christians, gun-nuts, etc. It is a time to come together to support those who were physically and emotionally damaged by this tragic event.

Powerful stuff:

(I agree with Brian A.'s comment above, the KNS is doing an outstanding job of covering this tragedy.)

between liberals verses conservatives and believers verses nonbelievers....
I find that sad but not surprising.
Liberals have taken a lot of grief from conservatives for years now and the anger for that is out there and was just looking for an outlet....and this, at least locally here......might be it.

I went down at lunch today and gave my pint on behalf of the Unitarian congregation. I urge the rest to go down and to the same. As many have said here, this is a time for pulling together, for mourning the losses, and for celebrating the heroes inside that building.

Someday soon maybe I'll be ready to debate the possible and alleged causes of this tragedy, but not today. We've had a rash of murders lately by the mentally troubled. There was the patron at the Kingston Pike Hooters who was shot and killed by that young man who later committed suicide by cop in Bearden. There was that mentally disturbed man in Halls who killed the bar patron who was trying to diffuse a confrontation. And now we have this guy. It's all just very, very sad to me right now.

I feel sad for the victims and their loved ones above all else. But I also feel sad for the afflicted who committed the crimes. I've had enough personal experience with the mentally ill to know it's futile to try to ascribe rational triggers to irrational actions. The need usually precedes the justification and any rationalization for gratifying that need will suffice equally well. So I can't even feel rage against the killer... just sadness. If I believed in a god, I might find solace in the thought this might serve some higher purpose somewhere, somehow. But I don't, so there's only an empty, meaningless sadness. If you must, or if you can, find some sort of meaning or purpose to your own sadness, take it.

seriously trying to pin any sort of blame on talk radio ?

From today's KNS:

Inside the house, officers found "Liberalism is a Mental Health Disorder" by radio talk show host Michael Savage, "Let Freedom Ring" by talk show host Sean Hannity, and "The O'Reilly Factor," by television talk show host Bill O'Reilly.

Quite [sic] now folks, I'm receiving another transmission from the WNOX mothership..

You may want to get yourself of an aluminum foil hat.

Visit us at

The Home

Do not forget, please, that much hate is still directed to the GLBTQ community. Gary Elgin has it right. We need to hear from the mayor and from others too,

(link...)

Mayor Haslam asked the city firefighters to clean up the mess in the TVUUC sanctuary and saved our church members and volunteers from that horrible task. He has shown a lot of support in this action and was humble when I thanked him. Please don't contribute to divisiveness at this time. We need all the community to pull together and some need time to learn about tolerance.

I haven't lived in Knoxville for nearly 20 years now, but I still think of it as my hometown, and ever since I heard the news on my way to church Sunday evening, I've been in a state of near shock.

If I was still in Knoxville, I doubt I would have been a member of TVUUC (I've visited a Unitarian church here in Maryland, and, while I found a lot to admire in their beliefs, I prefer a more traditionally Christian church. That's not a criticism of them; its merely a matter of personal preference.), but I can't help but think I would have known people there and called them my friends.

I am working hard to contain my anger at the fact that shooter was apparently motivated by the "its okay to hate your political opponents" that's all too common in today's society.

And I'll grant that kind of rhetoric comes from both sides of the political spectrum. Yes, I perceive more of it coming from the right, but that's a case of my own ox being gored.

But the question that keeps coming to my mind is, "dammit, whatever happened to the idea that 'honest persons disagree'?"

I'm personally swearing off nasty debate. I'll still debate politics, but only if its reasonable and rationed. I want the roundtable on ABC's This Week, not the shouting matches that pass for political conversation all too often in America today. Its a small gesture, I admit, but I want to do something.

On another note, is there any kind of memorial fund set up for the victims? Maybe a scholarship fund for the kids who were there? I was about to pull out my credit card and send flowers to TVUUC yesterday, but I thought cash would be more beneficial.

Watched Stewart's clip last night of Faux News where somebody (a "Fox Friend," maybe?) said that the space where Obama chose to speak in Germany was "linked to Hitler." (Well, it was in Germany.) What point could he have possibly been trying to make? Hmmm, I can't imagine.

Hmmm.... the guy says that he's targeting liberals, and we're supposed to believe that he wasn't politically motivated.

He may have had some warped political motivation. The problem is when Libs - as they typically do - want to blame others for this nut's actions (Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, et al....hell, Conservatism and Conservatives in general are all to blame!)

Here's breaking news for all Libs tuned in....It is possible for a white, Southern, Christian, Conservative, male who belongs to the NRA and is a fan of Limbaugh and Hannity and O'Reilly to be appalled and saddened by this act. And I agree that we should do everything we can to nail this kook and do what we can to make sure it doesn't happen again. I'm sad for the victims, their families and this community.

As I read through the arguements in this blog today, I am reminded of the following passage:

"1 Corinthians 13

Love

If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love."

I'd like to know how a tradegy [sic] for all concerned becomes a political issue

Way off base in my opinion

It becomes a political issue when it was revealed that the assailant targeted liberals because he blamed them (i.e., us) for all his problems and hated them (i.e., us). Wherever could he have gotten such notions?

This was a terrorist act against the political beliefs of people on this blog, or hadn't you noticed where you're posting? So I do take personal offense when WE were collectively attacked, and I don't think it's inappropriate to speak out to that. Is it fair in your world that we should feel muzzled?

Oh by the way, I knew Greg and he was a very good person. Kind and caring, he was the embodiment of compassion. Yet I never once talked politics with him. I have no idea what his political views were. So a friend of mine was just slaughtered based on his presumed politics (or social beliefs). The killer didn't even know one way or the other, and yet some of us really are liberal and proudly so. We are all purple too in that we embody many conservative ideals in various ways. If the assailant was just suicidal, he didn't need to target anybody else. Yet he targeted people, OUR people, for their freakin’ politics. Greg died for us. Very many of us.

And some people keep wondering why I post anonymously. Again, I believe there are MANY Jim Adkissons out there. The only difference is the mental stability factor. Who knows where that lies? It only takes one to cause a lot of hurt.

These troubled people should stop being mined by the political right, which extracts blame against the left for all of society's problems.

Not to defend Adkisson’s actions, but let’s keep in mind that the public has not read the letter so we really don’t know that his intent was to kill liberals although it seems clear that he had developed an intense hatred of liberals. As someone has suggested, there’s a good chance that had he been employed, he would not have been sitting at home listening to conservative talk radio.

For starters, let’s take the NS subheading, “Suspect’s note cites ‘liberal movement’ for church attack.” Has the NS read the note that according to Owen will not be made public until the trial? The article itself reads, “Owen said it appeared Adkisson targeted the TVUUC because the “church had received some publicity regarding its liberal stance.” Is it not possible that Adkisson mentioned the liberal movement as one of the reasons that he no longer chose to live?

The NS article goes on to state, “While police said Adkisson did not mention his ex-wife in the note, they said she attended the TVUUC years ago. That’s how he selected TVUUC to unleash his frustrations, police said.” That to me does imply that he went to TVUUC specifically to kill liberals. In arrears, we know he went there to kill with the intent of being killed. After he’s gone, who possibly would have to bear the guilt for his actions?

Two ironies in my opinion, the first in Monday’s NS where on the page opposite a story about Sunday’s tragedy there’s an apparently unrelated article about the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. As I recall, the local Crisis Hotline closed because it lacked funding.

The second goes back many years to the time when I first attended TVUC (before it became TVUUC). The minister at the time turned me off because he would almost consistently find someway to talk about those people across the street – apparently meaning the members of Calvary Baptist Church – and often he became extremely emotional to the point of tears. After a few sermons, I connected the dots and concluded, right or wrong, that his ex-wife had become a conservative Christian and was raising their daughter in her church.

Again, I’m not condoning Adkisson’s actions. I met Greg many years ago and was a member a social group with his wife, Barbara, before they married. At this time, however, I personally am not willing to judge the reasons for Adkisson’s actions.

Type O Negative
Submitted by RayCapps on Mon, 2008/07/28 - 4:57pm.

I went down at lunch today and gave my pint on behalf of the Unitarian congregation. I urge the rest to go down and to the same. As many have said here, this is a time for pulling together, for mourning the losses, and for celebrating the heroes inside that building.

I stopped by MEDIC today and was told that there isn't an organized blood drive for the victims of the UU tragedy. Obviously, blood was used and needs to be replaced so donations as always are needed. If anyone knows of one of the victims who needs a replacement donation, let me know. I'll call the church in the morning.

I expect to die long before my MEDIC membership expires.

"Here's breaking news for all Libs tuned in....It is possible for a white, Southern, Christian, Conservative, male who belongs to the NRA and is a fan of Limbaugh and Hannity and O'Reilly to be appalled and saddened by this act."

I appreciate your posting this because I, a liberal, didn't know this. To me, the face of terrorism looks like an old white man from East Tennessee who easily got a gun from a pawn shop, was angry about a divorce, had trouble finding a job even with some skills, probably didn't get good care from the VA which he deserved, and probably believed the crap spewed by right-wing radio. There are too many people out there who fit that description and I am scared and my gay friends are scared. I know liberals care for each other, the environment, and the spiritual, physical, and emotional needs of each individual. I am not scared among them. Do you care about me?

From the Miami Herald by Leonard Pitts Jr.:

...

Unable to say what they [liberals] believe or to frame it any compelling way, they have allowed themselves to be defined instead from without, standing ineffectual in a mudstorm of invective. They are, the propaganda goes, effete, unpatriotic, unstable, un-American, anti-God, evil, and the source of a voter's every problem, down to and including the death of his goldfish and the breakup of his marriage.

It is so over the top, so patently ridiculous, it's almost funny. Until you remember that dehumanizing people inevitably has consequences.

That's what Knoxville is, a consequence.

No, conservatives did not cause this bloodbath. Jim Adkisson allegedly did. But in telling him ''liberals'' were the source of his every disaffection and woe, conservatives certainly validated the hatred and madness that drove him.

It would be a fitting tribute to those who were lost in Knoxville if this tragedy gave the authors of the ongoing morality play cause for pause -- and reflection. Or is accountability yet another lost conservative value?

...

Unable to say what they believe or to frame it any compelling way

Unable. So true. So many times I have to look around before I discuss healthcare, Social Security, Medicare, diversity, education, conservation, global warming, and more. There are so many people who will argue against the government's need to help others. They just look the other way when they see people living on the streets, unable to afford enough food, unable to afford healthcare. They are unable to accept that their neighbor was born elsewhere. I get so tired of the callousness. Some day we [liberals, progressives, whatever] will shout loud enough to be heard. I hope.