Greek Deli at the Chapman Highway Chevron

Fri

Aug 18 2006

05:46 pm

By: Up Goose Creek

I stopped by the Greek Deli at the Chapman Highway Chevron and ordered the Gyro which was quite good with a refreshing sour cream(?) sauce. I got a free sample of Al-Hubh sauce thinking this might be good to take to a party as a dip but anyone who came near would get garlic breath not to mention the poppyseeds might get your drug tested pals thrown off the job. The service was cheerful but a bit slow as a family of former Katrina evacuees on their way to Pennsylvania from Texas had arrived right before me. Usually you get pretty quick service. Pretty good baklava, too.

Now that I’ve gotten your attention, shall we discuss the urban renewal that’s threatening this place of business? I asked the owner where she would go if the city took the deli for a park and she said “I’ll answer that when the city really does take this for a park… meanwhile I’ve got enough things to worry about” and “this building’s been here 60 years, it’s not going anywhere”. Now I’m confused. I thought denial was a river in Egypt, what’s it doing in a Greek Deli? More likely she was so busy with the store she didn’t read the paper.

Now the city is all set to advertise an urban redevelopment zone. The city says they’re going to protect the neighborhoods but haven’t quite gotten around to giving out any legal language to that effect. There’s not even a pretense they’ll protect the businesses on Chapman Highway. My heart won’t break if the muffler place moves a little farther out but a convenience store/deli is a real asset to the neighborhood. Can this kind of place afford the rent in a brand new condo tower?

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I've heard good things about

Submitted by R. Neal on Fri, 2006/08/18 - 6:21pm.

I've heard good things about the Greek Deli at the Chapman Highway Chevron. Will have to give it a try sometime. Is it next to the old Smoky Mt. Market, or further out? (I seem to recall two gas station delis out there.)

[obglitaory thread hijack]

At any rate, these ungrateful people running this deli ought to be happy to give up their underutilized, most likely blighted, property so it can be put to higher density use such as condos with first floor restaurant/retail. The space over their heads is valuable and should be put to its highest and best use generating property taxes that will someday kick in twenty years from now after the civic minded developers have gotten rich. Not to mention they are clearly part of the evil, elite, and powerful global oil cartel, making profits off war at the expense of the environment to supply SUV junkies the heroin gas they crave. Why do they hate America and Bill Haslam? Are they even legal immigrants? Are they really even Greek?

[/obglitaory thread hijack]

But seriously, is this part of the South Waterfront TIF proposal, or a separate deal? I guess I somehow missed this in the paper, too.

P.S. While y'all are at it, you should get together and get a H1 historical overlay or whatever it is for Smoky Mountain Market.

once a redevelopment area is

Submitted by michael kaplan on Fri, 2006/08/18 - 6:54pm.

once a redevelopment area is established, anything within its bounds is subject to seizure by eminent domain if declared legally 'blighted'. and the legal definition of 'blight' (TCA) is so broad as to include almost anything. i believe the south knoxville waterfront plan *suggests* it become a 'redevelopment area.'

Isnt demolishing property in

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 2006/08/18 - 7:36pm.

Isnt demolishing property in the city limits to build condos a good thing? I thought it helped avoid sprawl? If you dont want to live in a condo downtown then you are fascist Bushitler pig!

Council has asked KCDC to

Submitted by Rachel on Fri, 2006/08/18 - 9:17pm.

Council has asked KCDC to put conditions into the redevelopment plan that will severely constrain, if not eliminate, the ability to use eminent domain to take private property for sale to developers.

I haven't looked at the vision plan lately, but I believe a small area where the Greek deli is located is envisioned to become a small park. That MIGHT EVENTUALLY SOMEDAY involve the City taking some property by eminent domain, but it would have nothing to do with the redevelopment plan. The City can take property for such public uses now, and they can do so with or without a redevelopment plan.

I don't mean to always sound like a Pollyanna on this one, but some folks seem to only put forth negative aspects or possibilities, and some balance is needed.

If you are interested in how the south waterfront is progressing, there is a new schedule of public meetings on both the TIF and the form-based codes. You can find the schedule on the city website for future reference, but here 'tis (as you can see, there is ample opportunity for public participation):

South Waterfront Redevelopment Plan & Tax Increment Financing District approval process:

Friday, August 25th
Public Release of Draft Redevelopment Plan - The draft plan will be made available for public review through the City of Knoxville website ((link...)) and the KCDC website ((link...)). Paper copies of the plan summary will be made available upon request.

Tuesday, September 5th, 6:00 PM
South Waterfront Drop-In Center, 906 Sevier Avenue
Neighborhood meeting for comments, questions, and answers.

Thursday, September 7th, 5:00 PM
Small Assembly Room, City-County Building, 400 Main Street
This date has been reserved for a City Council Workshop to allow for discussion of the draft plan and any related issues.

Monday, September 11th, 6:00 PM
South Waterfront Drop-In Center, 906 Sevier Avenue
Neighborhood meeting for comments, questions, and answers.

Thursday, September 14th, 6:00 PM
South Knoxville Baptist Church Fellowship Hall, 522 Sevier Avenue.
Public Hearing for the Draft Redevelopment Plan

Monday, September 25th, 2:00 PM
Main Assembly Room, City-County Building, 400 Main Street
Knox County Commission plan approval will be requested.

Tuesday, September 26th, 7:00 PM
Main Assembly Room, City-County Building, 400 Main Street
Knoxville City Council plan approval will be requested.

Thursday, September 28th, 11:30 AM
KCDC Main Office, 901 N. Broadway
KCDC Board plan approval will be requested.

South Waterfront Development Code (Form-Based Zoning Regulations)

Thursday, August 31st, 12:00 PM
Small Assembly Room, City-County Building, 400 Main Street
South Waterfront Oversight Committee meeting

Thursday, August 31st, 6:00 PM
Kerbela Shriners Temple, 315 Mimosa Avenue
Community-Wide Public Workshop

Tuesday, September 12th, 7:00 PM
Main Assembly Room, City-County Building, 400 Main Street
City Council approval of the draft Knoxville South Waterfront Action Plan will be requested.

Wednesday, September 20th, 6:00 PM
South Waterfront Drop-In Center, 906 Sevier Avenue
Neighborhood meeting for comments, questions, and answers.

Thursday, September 21st, 12:00 PM
Small Assembly Room, City-County Building, 400 Main Street
South Waterfront Oversight Committee meeting

Thursday, September 21st, 5:00 PM
Small Assembly Room, City-County Building, 400 Main Street
A joint City Council / Metropolitan Planning Commission workshop will be held to allow for informal discussion of the draft code prior to the start of the formal adoption process.

Wednesday, October 11th, 6:00 PM
South Waterfront Drop-In Center, 906 Sevier Avenue
Neighborhood meeting for comments, questions, and answers.

Thursday, October 12th, 12:00 PM
Small Assembly Room, City-County Building, 400 Main Street
South Waterfront Oversight Committee meeting

Thursday, October 12th, 1:30 PM
Main Assembly Room, City-County Building, 400 Main Street
The Metropolitan Planning Commission will be asked to make a formal recommendation to City Council regarding adoption of the South Waterfront Code.

Monday, November 6th, 6:00 PM
South Waterfront Drop-In Center, 906 Sevier Avenue
Neighborhood meeting for comments, questions, and answers.

Tuesday, November 7th, 12:00 PM
Location to be announced
South Waterfront Oversight Committee meeting

Tuesday, November 7th, 7:00 PM
Main Assembly Room, City-County Building, 400 Main Street
City Council adoption South Waterfront Development Code will be requested. The requested action will be adoption of the ordinance on first reading.

Tuesday, November 21st, 7:00 PM
Main Assembly Room, City-County Building, 400 Main Street
City Council second reading adoption South Waterfront Development Code will be requested. The requested action will be adoption of the ordinance on second (and final) reading.

I don't mean to always sound

Submitted by Number9 on Fri, 2006/08/18 - 9:51pm.

I don't mean to always sound like a Pollyanna on this one, but some folks seem to only put forth negative aspects or possibilities, and some balance is needed.

If you want to make an omelet you have to break a few eggs.

I think what is needed is a

Submitted by R. Neal on Fri, 2006/08/18 - 9:55pm.

I think what is needed is a series of public meetings on how public meetings absolve developers and their pals at city hall of doing whatever they want in the interest of developers and their pals at city hall as long as citizens are made to feel like they were involved in The Process by way of public meetings.

Alarmist

Submitted by Up Goose Creek on Fri, 2006/08/18 - 9:56pm.

Yup, I tend towards the alarmist from time to time. But Dave Hill said 18 months ago he'd get something signed in gold ink (his words) that we needn't fear for our homes. It bothers me mightily that a big black line will be inked around my neighborhood in a newspaper redevelopment ad before any of his gold ink has been spilled.

Anon, you can take heart that even as we post the glove factory is being demolished for high rise condos. And I don't object to that, even if it means more traffic. If the future occupants work at Baptist it could mean less traffic. But yeah, I am considered by some to be a selfish, selfish person to want 1/6 of an acre all to myself. But there are some big trees on that 1/6 of an acre so maybe I'm providing oxygen for 4 condo occupants.

Bubba, the Greek deli is next door to the old Smoky Mountain Market. The SMM shut down a few years ago. Not likely to get a historical overlay though I understand it holds a lot of late night memories.

big black line

Submitted by michael kaplan on Sat, 2006/08/19 - 11:48pm.

mamaw wrote:

"It bothers me mightily that a big black line will be inked around my neighborhood in a newspaper redevelopment ad before any of his gold ink has been spilled."

True, the big black line will become a boundary for the TCA-defined 'redevelopment area.' To prevent the use of eminent domain in such a legally defined area, you will have the change the Tennessee Code Annotated, and I don't think that falls within the purview of Dave Hill, City Council or KCDC.

True, the big black line

Submitted by Rachel on Sun, 2006/08/20 - 12:59pm.

Dave Hill and Bill Lyons stated unequivocally in the presence of Alvin Nance, three City Council members, and a host of community folks that constraints on the use of eminent domain can and will be put into the plan for the redevelopment area. They seemed certain this could be done; in fact, Dr. Lyons stated that such conditions had been used before. I don't believe Mr. Kaplan was in the room at that time.

Council again called for these restrictions when they authorized KCDC to prepare the plan.

Mamaw will attest that those are the stated intentions; she's just worried about exactly how these limitations will be worded - as she should be.

It's a pretty sure thing that the community will vet this wording carefully, and raise a stink if they don't like it. Again, as they should.

I think Michael Kaplan lives

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Sun, 2006/08/20 - 1:13pm.

I think Michael Kaplan lives in one of the neighborhoods participating in the Broadway and Fifth avenue talks. The notes that are available from that show that they are talking about a redevelopment area. The neighborhoods seeem to be all for that. If he has not already Mr. Kaplan might ought to go to the next meeting and set them straight.

Hey Kaplan is a teller of

Submitted by GoGreen (not verified) on Sun, 2006/08/20 - 3:08pm.

Kaplan is a teller of truth. He does not need to work with those people or anyone else. He stands back and observes and speaks the truth to the good old boy power structure.

brilliant!

Submitted by rikki on Fri, 2006/08/18 - 9:57pm.

A delightful and truthy restaurant review and development policy synthesis! Brilliant! You're my gyro.

That property is slated for an artificial green space on top of a parking garage in the vision concept-a-ma-bob. They really could be pressured to move at some point. The thing is, the food is so good they should be in a place with tables. And who cares how fast the service is when it's witty and adorable? I say give them prime real estate and a lifetime supply of chick peas!

Process

Submitted by Up Goose Creek on Fri, 2006/08/18 - 10:04pm.

One thing that has bothered me about this process is we have spent little time talking about relocation of businesses. As if they'll just disappear and not leave a hole in the fabric of our community. I see the greek deli going in the ground floor of the medical building. All that garlic has health benefits, right? No wait... we don't want healthy people, that might cut into the doctors' profits. Better have a drugstore that sells cigarettes and sodas.

I think what is needed is a

Submitted by Rachel on Fri, 2006/08/18 - 11:20pm.

To use a word I've become fond of lately - piffle. Please show me some evidence that the waterfront plan as completed so far only incorporates the interests of "developers and their pals at city hall" and ignores the wishes of the community. And then lay out how you would set up a more meaningful public participation process for the waterfront.

Mamaw - you're right - further discussion of the impact on existing small businesses would be a good idea. Since you're on the Oversight Committee, why don't you email Dave Hill and the consultants and ask if we can include that in the 8/31 Oversight Committee meeting? I'm not being snarky - I'm serious. You can tell 'em I join you in the request if you like.

And I hate to sound like #9 here, but the digit has hit on something. No matter what, 20 years from now eggs are going to be broken. The south waterfront is not going to stay exactly the same. We can let the market totally drive what happens, with no planning, and probably end up with a series of ugly, out-of-scale gated communities that block existing views of the river and provide no public access. Or we can try to plan something better, protecting existing neighborhoods as best we can along the way.

I have no problem with anyone who takes issue with any particular aspect(s) of the plan. I don't like every detail myself. But I'm running out of patience with those who suggest this effort isn't being done in good faith, using good planning practices, and with an extraordinary amount of attention to what the community wants.

You want to see a backroom deal done with no due diligence, look no further than the proposed Midway industrial park. Unfortunately, some folks seem to thrive on believing every single damn thing in Knoxville is handled just as badly. I'd rather give credit to the folks (the consultants, they city, and the public) who are getting one right. Sue me.

Relocation

Submitted by Up Goose Creek on Sat, 2006/08/19 - 7:52am.

I have brought up the issue of reloction in our meetings and it didn't get any attention more than we'll talk about that later. I'm afraid there are more urgent things to discuss at the Aug 31 meeting.

Sauce

Submitted by Johnny Ringo on Sat, 2006/08/19 - 10:03am.

ordered the Gyro which was quite good with a refreshing sour cream(?) sauce.

Actually if its like most gyros that I have had, the sauce is a cucumber dill sauce. Just thought this conversation wouldn't be complete without that bit o' trivia.

Line of Doom

Submitted by Up Goose Creek on Mon, 2006/08/21 - 9:24am.

The good news is the line of doom did not appear in the KNS today as promised (threatened?) in a July 18 e-mail.

So the boundary is to be revealed in an Aug 25 press release? And the public hearing is to be Sept 14????? Gee, 2 1/2 weeks is a lot of time.

Dave Hill writes: "Until City Council authorized the preparation of the draft Redevelopment Plan, there was no sense in starting to work on it." This "process" has been going on for 1 1/2 years, but they wait until the last minute to adress a major issue?

Dave Hill writes: "Until

Submitted by Rachel on Mon, 2006/08/21 - 10:27am.

Since the redevelopment plan will largely be the vision plan, with bits of the action and financial plans (all already developed), there will be little to "address," although it will be important. The most important new pieces will be exactly where the boundary is, and what the conditions on eminent domain are.

The fact that most of the plan is "old news" also means that 2 1/2 weeks should be sufficient time for community review - especially with 2 neighborhood meetings and a Council workshop on it scheduled in the interim.

Also, let me remind folks that the only reason the City is even doing a redevelopment plan is that that is the only legal way to do an infrastructure TIF. This TIF will allow tax $$ raised in the district to go directly back to the district for infrastructure (NOT to pay developers) - street improvements, riverwalk, parks, etc.

Again, I sound like Pollyanna. But again, I feel the need to help round out the picture.

south knox development

Submitted by Karen (not verified) on Thu, 2006/09/28 - 10:38am.

I've grown up in south Knoxville so this is a rant. Sorry. South Knox has been under assault for awhile from urban sprawl---people who live in Sevier and Blount county yet drive back and forth for their every need through the neighborhoods around the city. But I am astonished that it took so long for developers to whet their chops and see the potential. Gertrude Street has a gorgeous view of downtown at night. These neighborhoods close to the city on the south side were all appealing little enclaves when I was a kid---with a grocery store on Sevier Avenue. The "new" south Knox bridge just plowed through these neighborhoods and paved them over. It was a brutal assault, and the plan is to continue this particular road through the countryside to John Sevier Highway. Of course, they must do something because Chapman Highway has become clogged because so many people drive so far every day of their lives. So I'm not sure there IS anything that can be done besides plowing over ever more of south Knox. Fort Sanders, where I lived in college, is now pretty much a wasteland, so south Knox gets all the college students, too. The huge complex on Jonathan next to Davenport took beautiful woodland. It's all depressing: these were such great neighborhoods. And people are lying to themselves if they believe those neighborhoods around those new waterfront complexes will still be there in five years. Guess it's obvious I'm annoyed.

even more development

Submitted by Karen (not verified) on Thu, 2006/09/28 - 10:42am.

A well-known downtown developer has bought a HUGE tract of south Knox countryside near the Lake Forest neighborhood for some sort of development. Colonial Village is fighting condos. I read a quote from a developer in the paper that said that south knox was the new west knox. They all want to be here. At least we have a good councilman, Joe Hulquist.

people who live in Sevier

Submitted by bizgrrl on Thu, 2006/09/28 - 2:12pm.

people who live in Sevier and Blount county yet drive back and forth for their every need through the neighborhoods around the city.

This is the 2nd time I have heard this in 2 days, the first was from a Knox County Commissioner. Maybe we need to start making some efforts to ask the people of outlying counties to be more considerate when the go to Knox County to work and shop. I live in Blount County but SoKnox is my home, born and raised, a little slice of heaven. I am considerate when I drive into town, since I am very familiar with the problems. I will make an effort to influence others to be considerate as well.

Thanks, Karen, and don't give up on SoKnox!

big black line update

Submitted by michael kaplan on Thu, 2006/09/28 - 2:28pm.

mamaw wrote a while back: "It bothers me mightily that a big black line will be inked around my neighborhood in a newspaper redevelopment ad"

since this was written, the ad appeared, but without the map.

sour grapes and higher taxes

Submitted by Karen (not verified) on Thu, 2006/09/28 - 5:12pm.

To the Sevier County resident: I'm not sure whether this was tongue-in-cheek or not. I hope not. The poor residents of Woodlawn Pike (no, I don't live there), who used to live in quiet neighborhoods, are now besieged with Seymour traffic emptying from the South Knox bridge. It is so bad that I try NOT to drive down that street for any reason--it just contributes to more headaches for those residents and I feel sorry for them.
When I was looking to buy a home, I wanted to live close to the city since I shop, work, go to restaurants, movies and bookstores in Knoxville. I chose a house about three miles from downtown. Now I REALLY wish I had not. So this is all sour grapes. I listen to the continuous drone of traffic on Chapman Highway and fight my way through county drives to get to the grocery store and I think I exhibited BAD judgment in my choice. My taxes are high (paying both county and city) and everything about my neighborhood has to be done according to what is best for the county residents. How can we get them into and out of the city best? Chapman Highway is clogged? Guess we'll have to bulldoze ever more of the greenery around south Knox so that these folks can enjoy the peace and quiet of living in the country. I wish I hadn't tried to do the right thing and had just fallen in line with the folks living the Seymour dream. THEY made the best choice. (That is NOT tongue-in-cheek--I mean it)I fantasize about selling and moving out there so I can have my own little piece of countryside and let someone else down here worry about the traffic, exhaust and pollution of my car for a change. Bitter? Yes, I am. I made a foolish decision choosing to live close to the city. You are the smart one.

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