Fri
Jul 13 2007
06:29 am
By: R. Neal

Knox County Finance Director John Werner has resigned in the wake of the county credit card controversy.

Mayor Ragsdale also transferred his executive assistant, who, along with then Commissioner Diane Jordan, dined on lobster at Regas and ordered two lobster tails to go on a county credit card, to another department.

Terry Troll's picture

A tail or two..

The two lobster tails to go might have been over the top.

CBT's picture

The two lobster tails to go

The two lobster tails to go might have been over the top.

Ya think?

Of course, we don't know if the lobster and lobster to go was ordered by Ragsdale's assistant, Lady Di or Lady Di's friend. Maybe Margie had the turkey and dressing for $11.

Why was Ragsdale's assistant (secretary) in charge of informing Commissioner Jordan? That seems like a stretch.

So, now we need a full-time watchdog to oversee the spending in the Mayor's office? How did we get to this point?

Desperate times call for desperate measures. The Mayor sees his political future in jeopardy (yes, he wants to run for Governor). He has 3 years left, so a lot can happen. Watch next year's Commission races. The importance of who fills those seats to Mayor Ragsdale's political future cannot be overstated. He will be deeply involved.

rikki's picture

root of all evil

CBT: So, now we need a full-time watchdog to oversee the spending in the Mayor's office? How did we get to this point?

A campaign system that yields a single, unopposed, heavily financed candidate?

Joe Taylor's picture

Ragsdale & Governor

Ragsdale and Governor... that's a stretch... just think back to all the missteps and misdeeds by Ragsdale and his administration...

With regards to Werner... I can not believe it took this long... in any private sector business he would have been fired the first day the spending was discovered... Werner quitting was a good first step... now it is time for Mike Arms to go too...

If Ragsdale has any chance of running for Governor, which I like is small; he needs to rid himself of Arms… Arms and his hot temper and mouth have caused Ragsdale all kinds of problems… Can you say Tyler Harber, Jay Witt… the list goes on and on… I believe you will find Mike Arms figure prints on a lot of the mess… but Ragsdale is as guilty because he has condone and encouraged the behavior out of his office…

Governor probably not but head of Vanderbilt… and maybe Vanderbilt will give Ragsdale and his team American Express Platinum cards… since that seems to be this groups taste… Champaign taste in a beer town…

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Jordan's "lifestyle"

I gotta say, this story caused me to think back to Jordan's comment on learning that the TN Supreme Court had upheld term limits, namely that for her, "public service" was "a lifestyle."

(The third guest was a member of Jordan's "pretty possee," I guess?)

I am increasingly curious to see an audit of the OTHER 163 p-cards in use outside the mayor's office.

zoomfactor's picture

lobster to go - eww

How good would lobster tails even be, after making the trip home in a plastic box to be eaten later?

No one could remember who ordered the lobster tails, when confronted. I can just hear the lunch conversation - "Don't worry, I have my county credit card - get some to go!" These people are supposedly public stewards, and this didn't cause any guilt or even second thoughts? Pretty weird.

Cletus's picture

zoomfactor said: How good

zoomfactor said: How good would lobster tails even be, after making the trip home in a plastic box to be eaten later?

Well, they didn't "cost" those who got them to go anything, so they didn't have much to risk, did they?

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Stretching leftovers

"How good would lobster tails even be, after making the trip home in a plastic box to be eaten later?"

In my household, they would have gone into a bisque, expected to produce more leftovers!

mbradley's picture

Back to work

Werner jumps on the grenade so now I guess we can get back to the business of creating great schools, taking care of seniors and making government better everyday. I’m guessing it probably won’t be that easy…

conciliary's picture

Indeed

I wonder what the Senior Director of Community Services is going to do now that her "friend" Werner is gone? And what did the county do to help Finch with her IRS debt the day they decided to go after a particular constituency's vote and hire her? Who knows what's below the surface? Is it ultimately all about power? Is this affair a comment on how not to introduce the corporate way of doing things into the public sector?

Tess's picture

Why?

I have no idea why the taxpayers are expected to pay for county workers/representatives lunches (or their gas for that matter). But, if we do have to pay for their lunches, should there no be a cap on the cost, say no more than $11 a person? The state has per diem ceilings for breakfast, lunch and dinner, why doesn't the county?

It seems that now, the sky is the limit, and I am beginning to see why all of these blood suckers would sell their mothers to get a county job. Oh, wait, there are a lot of mothers and sons and cousins and brothers--whole extended families--already on the county payroll. What a life.

Meanwhile, I continue to pay property tax to bankroll their cruises and trips to Disney World and the Bahamas and lobster lunches.

CBT's picture

Show of hands...who thinks

Show of hands...who thinks Margie and Lady Di don't know who the third was at lunch? You spend $227 on lunch, complete with shortcake and a couple of tails to go...and that's not memorable? Was it so commonplace as to not stick out? If it was my business and my money, I'd dang sure remember.

Joe Taylor's picture

GSA Perdiem Rates

Domestic Perdiem Rates
Tennessee - FY 07
(October 1, 2006 through September 30, 2007)

Cities not appearing below may be located within a county for which rates are listed. To determine what county a city is located in, visit the National Association of Counties (NACO) website (a non-federal website).

NOTE: If neither the city nor the county is listed, the location is a standard CONUS destination with a rate of $60.00 for lodging and $39.00 for meals and incidental expenses (M&IE).

State Tax Rates & Exemption Forms

Properties at Per Diem (FedRooms)

Lodge Food Max
Brentwood/Franklin Williamson 82 49 131
Chattanooga-Hamilton 81 44 125
Gatlinburg/Townsend-Sevier & Blount 67 49 116
Knoxville-Knox 74 49 123
Memphis-Shelby 83 49 132
Nashville-Davidson 99 54 153
Oak Ridge-Anderson 72 39 111

Please visit: (link...)

Andy Axel's picture

They must have taken the

They must have taken the Alberto Gonzales CRS course.

____________________________

I'm a guy in a Reagan mask -- and I'm running for President!

Joe Taylor's picture

above Post

opps... not sure how to cut and paste so it looks nice maybe someone else can cut and paste the GSA perdiem website so you can actually read it...

R. Neal's picture

I can read it fine. This is

I can read it fine.

This is how we bill for lodging and meals travel expenses. Makes accounting a whole lot easier, and eliminates bickering.

And if someone wants to stay in a nicer room or eat at a fancy restaurant and pay the difference out of their pocket, that's fine. If they want to eat at McDonalds and pocket the difference, that's fine, too.

There are exceptions, though, for high-power executive business dinners. But I don't ever recall anyone ordering lobster tails to go or anything else to go. And I don't ever recall lobster tails or anything that extravagant for lunch. And I don't recall anyone at any place I've ever worked authorizing high-power executive lunches or dinners for executive assistants.

But I can remember the very few expensive high-power business dinners I've had to orchestrate and exactly who was there and what was discussed, going back about seven years or so.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Per diem not applicable locally

We have to recall, too, that these per diem caps (restated in our KC Travel Policy, Walls' draft audit said) are not supposed to be applicable to travel locally.

Under the policy Walls described, a meal like this one should not have been applicable in Nashville, much less Knoxville.

Joe Taylor's picture

Recall

what is the recall process for knox county elected officials

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Zippo

"what is the recall process for knox county elected officials"

It's the same process applicable to removing some of those January 31 appointees--none.

There is a process outlined in the charter, though, to amend it (that is, to add an amendment allowing a recall).

The two-step process, amending the charter then enacting the recall, causes this solution to be one that would take a good, long time to affect.

Bbeanster's picture

Hey, don't be so hard on

Hey, don't be so hard on them.
They saved money on the tip!

sadcox's picture

Great Tippers

Yep, just 14.6% by my calculations. Classy ladies, classy!

I guess if they were good enough at math to calculate out a decent tip they would have known that at $200 lunch was a little excessive as well.

That would have made them culpable.

bizgrrl's picture

My customers would think

My customers would think they were paying too much for our product if we bought them lobster for lunch.

I hope they have a good excuse for giving a 14.6% tip when eating lobster at Regas!

It's all truly amazing and sad.

Mello's picture

then there is Blount County...

and some day someone will ask to see the receipts from this county's credit cards........

I would be happy as hell to see the full budget, line by line before it is voted on.

bill young's picture

tennessee code 8-47-101

google that & see where it takes you

mbradley's picture

or who shall in any public

or who shall in any public place be in a state of intoxication produced by strong drink voluntarily taken

Oh my...

ultron's picture

This prompted a discussion

This prompted a discussion about tipping on carry-out orders. I always thought you were supposed to kick in a couple bucks for that, but a few folks disagreed w/me.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

To Ultron:

"I always thought you were supposed to kick in a couple bucks for that (carry-out), but a few folks disagreed w/me."

Well, I thought so, too. Kinda like tipping the pizza delivery guy/gal, who isn't actually your "server."

I haven't worked in a restaurant since college (nearly 30 years ago), but I understood that in recent years, employers reflect an amount on the W-2's of restaurant employees equal to 10% of the servers' food orders, to cause them to pay FIT/FICA on their tip income? That is, if we don't tip them at least that 10%, they're presumed by the IRS to have received it, anyway?

(And since I was once a waitress in a previous life, I'll take this opportunity to explain to any silver spooners who never performed the job that these folks earn 1/2 minimum wage. It's my observation that any of us who ever performed the job are likely generous tippers!)

smalc's picture

Wouldn't you like to have been a fly on the wall

server: "Have you ladies decided? Let's start with you, mam"
diner1: "I'll take the turkey and dressing."
server: "Ok, good choice. How bout you?"
diner2: "I'll have the lobster tail."
server: "Excellent choice. And you?"
diner3: "Well, shucks. Give me the lobster tail as well."

Anybody want to guess who is who?

bill young's picture

Kathy Hamilton

She was very very good @ her job

Gave me insight to her & Tommy's reasoning concerning the contra fund

Bbeanster's picture

It's wrong to blame Margie

It's wrong to blame Margie Lloyd and Diane Jordan for this.

Margie was following orders, which apparently were to do whatever it took to make Commissioner Jordan happy.

And for all Commissioner Jordan knew, this meal could have been paid for out of that hospitality fund, not with taxpayer money. Yes, it doesn't look good, but the blame for this kind of lavish spending should go to Ragsdale, who set the tone and gave the orders.

Ennui's picture

Screw them all, let god sort

Screw them all, let god sort them out.

CBT's picture

or who shall engage in any

or who shall engage in any form of illegal gambling

Uh oh...all those trips to Tunica by the Memphis delegation and local officials (and various other elected officials when conventions are held in the bluff city).

CBT's picture

Ooops...I note it says

Ooops...I note it says 'illegal gambling'. My bad. It's legal south of Memphis.

But, better watch those poker games and private dens of iniquity.

mbradley's picture

quick

Quick, someone check the p-card statement for charges in Cocke County!

it doesn't look good, but the blame for this kind of lavish spending should go to Ragsdale, who set the tone and gave the orders

This would seem to contradict some high profile editorials calling for Werner's resignation...

Bbeanster's picture

it doesn't look good, but

it doesn't look good, but the blame for this kind of lavish spending should go to Ragsdale, who set the tone and gave the orders
This would seem to contradict some high profile editorials calling for Werner's resignation...---

No contradiction at all.
Werner is responsible for his own conduct and the conduct ofhis office.
Ragsdale is responsible for the whole schmere.

Or are you suggesting that the buck stops with Ragsdale's secretary?

There's precedent for that, you know. When I was a kid, we had a county official (a clerk, I think -- his name was Luttrell) who was pu ton trial for stealing money. His secretary went to prison.

CBT's picture

I tip delivery people (they

I tip delivery people (they brought it to me) and restaurant servers...fairly well, I think. My quandry comes when I order take out (usually chinese or lunch at work), drive/walk to the restaurant, pay for it and take it home/back to the office in a bag. Am I supposed to tip for them bagging it up? Sometimes I throw in a dollar or two. Sometimes I don't.

CBT's picture

From today's online

From today's online KNS:

Knox County Mayor Mike Ragsdale said today that some county purchasing card transactions are being reported to the state Comptroller’s Office.

Ragsdale also said that he has had “multiple discussions” regarding inappropriate use of purchasing cards with Knox County District Attorney General Randy Nichols, but he did not elaborate.

Mark it down. From the Mayor's office will come..."The district attorney has looked into this matter and found nothing. The finance director was fired. He can't get any more fired. These continued questions are just politics. We need to move on to issues about improving our schools, honoring our seniors and making government better every day".

Sounds familiar to me.

mbradley's picture

Or are you suggesting that

Or are you suggesting that the buck stops with Ragsdale's secretary?

Not at all. But, I'm getting the feeling that to some degree, Werner is getting tossed in front of the bus... He is indeed very much responsible for his own conduct, just as everyone else should be in this mess. I just have to wonder what the heck went on up on the 6th floor from the time the Mayor was on HHH until Werner resigns while on vacation later that day. I'm sure I'll read all about it on Monday...

CBT's picture

I hear there was a all-day

I hear there was a all-day meeting last week of Team Ragsdale (all the higher-ups) and the decision on Werner was made at that time. Why they waited to make it public, I have no idea. Maybe it was Mr. Werner's request.

While Mr. Werner created some of his own problems, I am certain he has now learned that all members of Team Ragsdale are expendable with the exception of Arms. For the good of the future political prospects of the Team no doubt.

Anarchist's picture

Where is Robespierre when you need him?

Ragsdale should wipe that stupid-looking smirk off his face, butch-up, and and fall on the sword of resignation. Alas, he doesn't have the testicular fortitude to do what is right because he has no clue!!!!!!

And criminal investigation and prosecution? What a joke our DA (and I don't mean District Attorney) is. He cannot spend the time looking into corruption because he is too busy stuffing his pie hole. Perhaps it is time to call in the the TBI and State Attorney General.

Knox County truly lives up to its motto for those elected and appointed and their cronies and family members...A Great American Community - taxpayer provided credit cards, automobiles, and NO OVERSIGHT!!! AH, YES, THE GOOD LIFE. For those of us footing the bill, IT AIN'T SO GREAT! Where is Robespierre when you need him?

bill young's picture

how bout this

google ouster petition putnam pit
see where that leads you

Tamara Shepherd's picture

Link

(link...)

(Compliments of Leslie, who shared it with us just after January 31.)

conciliary's picture

The Roberspierre idea and the Talleyrand solution

Yes, I agree Robespierre might work in this instance as he was governed by the exigencies of the moment.
On the other hand Talleyrand might sell them and let the buyer beware. Perhaps we should treat politicians like sports figures and trade and otherwise sell them to the highest bidder for their play action skills and talents. I wonder what the County Commissioners, Sheriff and Mayor might bring in to county coffers?

Anarchist's picture

Robespierre Idea

Interesting concept...WHAT IS THE MARKET for corrupt liars who continually pursue self-interests over the interests of the people? Perhaps some of the economists at UT could tell us.

If we were to sell them, does that mean we would have to buy new ones? And would we get just another batch as corrupt as those we sold?

conciliary's picture

Tallyrand solution

I wonder if we had "political farm teams," whereby we could review the skills of the politicians in training somewhat like the interns/rookies these same politicians currently bring on to assist them during the course of the year?
In other words before a politician becomes a politician they have to be an intern/rookie someplace be it the local university or "school of enlightened political consciousness or hard knocks?" Still, everyone would be invited to tryout at these "schools." Then the each municipality would have political coaches (university/college poly sci professors among others I suppose) that can help the communities pick who they want and help them purchase rookies.
But then I wonder if James Madison and his colleagues would agree? Of course he and John Adams and their fellow revolutionaries might be surprised that we haven't changed the Constitution to reflect changing times. If they were to revisit us to day they might find the medieval personage of Sheriff still in existence with all the power associated with it. (Will the Sheriff's departmental p cards be audited? Or do they need P cards with all the confiscated stuff they possess?) Don't ya just love democracy?

Up Goose Creek's picture

Fall Guy ?

I'm getting the feeling that to some degree, Werner is getting tossed in front of the bus

I don't know the job description, but as I would think that the one of the duties of "Finance Director" would be to set up and monitor a system to look for misuse of public funds.

____________________________________
Less is the new More - Karrie Jacobs

Tess's picture

And...

I would think some educational qualifications should be a requirement for the finance director job as well. Hiring someone who is a CPA seems not out of line.

Brian Hornback's picture

Are a few of you on here

suggesting that John Werner is/was not qualified to be Finance Director? If you are. You are wrong.

John Werner is/was more qualiifed than any previous Knox County Finance Director.

The tabloid journalist got what they wanted, John Werner has/is returning to the private sector. Now they need to move on to any other political targets and everyone leave Werner alone.

Tess's picture

Maybe the bar needs to be raised.

I am thinking the job specification should be based more on professional standards versus whether a candidate is more qualified than previous position holders.

Brian Hornback's picture

Another thought

leave Ms. Lloyd alone as well. The tabloid journalist has/have gotten their pound of flesh from her as well.

Bbeanster's picture

Hornback, are you

Hornback, are you permanently puckered from sucking up to Ragsdale?

Nobody was out to get Margie Lloyd. If you really want to look at who injured her, look at whoever it was who hung her out to dry. I've said on this board that I do not believe she did these thing without having been instructed to do it, or at least being told it was OK.

Maybe you think it's OK to charge vacations and $200 lunches to the taxpayers, but apparently many people disagree with you.

I guess being his third choice for chairman (after Lou Moran and Phyllis Severance) is a debt that will never be repaid, huh?

Brian Hornback's picture

Well

Mrs. Bean. There you go again.

I know what you said about Ms. Lloyd on this board and I agree with you. I didn't cite who or what tabloid journalist, so I guess you think I was referring to you. I was NOT.

As for your comment about Ragsdale. I NEVER said anything about Ragsdale. In fact I said leave Werner and Lloyd alone, now. and then everyone could set their sights on other political targets. So I am not sucking up to Ragsdale, I never even mentioned him.

I do not think that buying vacations and $200 lunches are appropriate. I didn't do it(I always took the per diem the few times that I traveled as an elected official) and I haven't said that I believe its right.

As for being the third choice behind Lou Moran and Phyllis Severance who ever or what ever voice in your head told you that. It or they are wrong. I know both of those individuals (Phyllis was a political mentor to me in the early days) and had they even considered running for Chairman I would not have run and would have supported either of them. They both supported me. So as usual your sources or the voices in your head are wrong.

Thanks for asking. I am happy to respond and clear the record of your many false statements about me.

Have a great Saturday. Hope to see you soon at Commission. Maybe you will get your beat (coverage) back now that the rezoning is over. By the way, Larry did a Great job while you were away.

Bbeanster's picture

"As for being the third

"As for being the third choice behind Lou Moran and Phyllis Severance who ever or what ever voice in your head told you that. It or they are wrong. I know both of those individuals (Phyllis was a political mentor to me in the early days) and had they even considered running for Chairman I would not have run and would have supported either of them. They both supported me. So as usual your sources or the voices in your head are wrong..."

Sorry to break it to you, Hornback, but you were indeed their third choice, or maybe even their fourth choice.
The "voices" that told me this turned up in my research of the Ragsdale administration last year in the form of e-mails from Arms and Ragsdale to Tyler Harber regarding finding someone to replace Chad Tindell as party chairman. Their first choice was Lou Moran, who turned them down flat. Their second choice was Phyllis Severance, who likewise turned them down. There were multiple messages on the subject, and it took them quite a while to work their way down to you. Their primary concern was finding someone who would be loyal.

Brian Hornback's picture

Tess,

do you know what John Werner's background was before becoming Finance Director? That might be helpful to you.

Tess's picture

The proof is in the pudding.

The proof is in the pudding. It is apparent that professional standards and procedures were not in place/and being followed, so the buck stops with him and his superiors, I would say.

It also appears that there is a culture in the county administration that has probably been in place for a long, long time, that fostered/fosters this type of mindset. Most employees anywhere would have no problem understanding that charging personal items, and extravagant ones for most of us, to the taxpayers is flat-out wrong--no qualifications.

And, whoever is charge of approving or auditing the accounts for the county should not just go along to get along. And, if necessary, maybe an outside auditing firm should take over the job.

Brian Hornback's picture

Bean

I don't care about supposed emails that you may have gotten from whereever by what ever means you got them.

Chadwick B. Tindell announced in December 2006. Believe it or not I received phone calls immediately upon Chad's announcement and talked with numerous elected officials and Mike and Mike was after I talked to close associates of the Sheriff's.

Know the readers here can believe you (someone who is employed by a publication that knowingly and unknowingly prints Lies and Gossip on a weekly basis) or they can believe me. Either way, your credibility with past reports is not as credible as mine.

Have a great Saturday.

Brian Hornback's picture

BTW, Bean

since this thread is "Werner out". If you want to continue the dialogue about a Republican Chairman's race that happened in 2005, you may want to start a new thred.

Also, a correction I misstated the year that Chadwick B. Tindell announced his intention not to pursue a second term I said 2006, it was actually 2004. I was thinking of December 2006 as the time that your Supervisor Sandra Clark and her Publisher Bruce Hartmann encouraged me to submit my statement clearing the record of all your errors in the portion of County Confidential that pertained to me.

The one where you violated the Standards of Jounalistic Code of Ethics. If you need to read it again I am sure it is in the archive section of Shopper News Now January 2007.

Brian Hornback's picture

Tess

I would agree with what you have just previously stated. I certainly do not believe that Knox County while Mike Ragsdale is Mayor will EVER face this problem again.

And he has required every employee to go back to 2002. Why, 2002? Mike Ragsdale came into office September 1, 2002. If there is anything that doesn't pass the smell test the employees have been required to pay it back.

O.k. Bean. This is the first time that I have mentioned Mike Ragsdale's name and it ain't exactly sucking up. I was stating fact. If you need to verify what I said then review the Hallerin Hilton Hill morning show from Thursday July 12, 2007 between the time of 7:05 - 8:00 a.m.

Tess, when you said this "It is apparent that professional standards and procedures were not in place/and being followed" does that also apply to Bean's portion of County Confidential that she authored about me? Just kidding.

Bbeanster's picture

Since you want to talk about

Since you want to talk about Werner's qualifications:

Knox County has had only 3 finance directors in the last 30 or 40 years. Werner's immediate predecessor, Kathy Hamilton, is a CPA who was hired by Dwight Kessel and served under Tommy Schumpert. That's a lot of scandal-free years. I'm pretty sure that her predecessor, Herb Acuff, was an accountant if not a CPA.
Werner is not a CPA nor a financial manager. He was selling insurance before he went to work for the county and probably will be selling insurance again.

His tenure as Knox County finance director has been marked by public hissy-fits and embarrassments like the multimillion dollar, no-bid HVAC contract for the school system that he tried to let a few years and the memo telling county employees not to use their P-cards at restaurants owned by Mike Chase.

Rachel's picture

I have no idea what Werner's

I have no idea what Werner's background is, but I will say that several times I've seen him seem to stumble around trying to explain financial items to Commission. Not sure if that reflected a lack of understanding, poor communication skills, or inability to find enough words of one syllable to speak to some Commissioners (or maybe all three).

I'm pretty much over County government right now. Commission has helped successfully change the conversation to the abuses of the Ragsdale administration. But that doesn't change the way they behaved on 1/31. And before. And since.

I'm not kidding - if Tennessee had independent cities like Virginia, I'd be lobbying for Knoxville to secede from Knox County.

"If we want to revitalize our towns and protect our countryside from sprawling development, we should renovate our older schools, not throw them away."
-- Save Our Land, Save Our Towns President Thomas Hylton

R. Neal's picture

the memo telling county

the memo telling county employees not to use their P-cards at restaurants owned by Mike Chase.

Oh, so NOW you admit that he did indeed impose some fiscal restraints and oversight!

Brian Hornback's picture

What is

his degree in?

Brian Hornback's picture

You asked for

"insight to her (Kathy Hamilton) & Tommy's reasoning concerning the contra fund"

It was to aid the contras who were conducting a guerrilla war against the Sandinista government of Nicaragua. Just kidding.

bill young's picture

not me it was tommy

kathy said tommy cuda shuda called it something different.

Justin's picture

Not sure if that reflected a

Not sure if that reflected a lack of understanding, poor communication skills, or inability to find enough words of one syllable to speak to some Commissioners (or maybe all three).

Are you sure you are not talking about Hornback? I have seen third graders with a better handle of the alphabet.

Brian Hornback's picture

Justin,

Are you a relative of Bean or an employee of Sandra Clark & E.W. Scripps? It seems that way.

Have a Great weekend.

CL's picture

Here's why Werner is staying

Here's why Werner is staying until September.

(link...)

Brian Hornback's picture

Bean

in a phone conversation with Mike Arms he said no such email was generated by him about Lou Moran and Phyllis Severance so what ever research you found has been disputed.

Your research were probably emails that Tyler supplied you. Everyone needs to remember that from 2001 when Tyler first came on the scene through the Spring of 2006 the Shopper was a huge critic of Tyler.

Even three - four months before you snagged the interview to meet with Tyler for County Confidential. The Shopper printed a photograph of Tyler in March 2006 in which the paper made the allegation that Tyler has/had an alternative lifestyle.

No one believed it and Sandra had to run a retraction in her column the very next week. But the facts are the facts.

Brian Hornback's picture

metulj

What did you think of the Shopper photo and verbage that Sandra had to retract in March of 2006?

The one that generated the media firestorm of every television newsroom beating down the Shopper doors, where Sandra refused comment to the television stations.

Brian Hornback's picture

O.K. Let me ask the question again

Was it responsible journalism? or Was it tabloid journalism?

Brian Hornback's picture

By the way

the next Knox County Investigation is previewed here.

CBT's picture

Arms denied threatening me,

Arms denied threatening me, but I have phone records. You know, lawyers sometimes record calls.

Brian Hornback's picture

CBT

this was about what beanster said that her "research" revealed an email that Arms sent talking about two other potential candidates for GOP Chair.

Believe this or not (I know it is going to hurt you) I don't talk about you to anyone (Elected Officials, members of our party or even Arms)

I know you think the whole world revolves around you. It doesn't.

Sorry.

BTW, It was great seeing you last week at Regas. Beanster, for the record, I ate the Mesquite grilled steakburger without the bun, burgundy mushrooms and drank water. It wasn't paid for by the taxpayers.

Tess's picture

What goes on at Regas stays

What goes on at Regas stays at Regas

CBT's picture

BH, I know what the thread

BH, I know what the thread was about. I wanted to point out that Mr. Arms isn't truthful in some matters. That could easily be true in his purported comments about asking others to run for GOP Chairman. In fact, I'd say it is true.

It's likely hard for you to believe Mike and Mike were looking for an opponent to run against you for school board. But, I know that's also true.

I had the medit. grilled chicken salad. I'm eating healthy these days. It's cost me 10 pounds or so. I like the food at Regas. The lunch was for former GOP Chairs.

Brian Hornback's picture

CBT

just as you choose to believe the distortions that the E.W. Scripps tabloid prints and because you have personal issues with Mike and Mike. Don't drag me into your little playground fight with Mike and Mike. You choose to believe reporters that knowingly print lies on a weekly basis. I choose to believe people who do not knowingly lie every week.

You complain about your emails being printed in the Sentinel. Well, I know because in my November 2006 meeting with Hartmann and Clark that it was your friend Sandra Clark that gave your emails to Hartmann. Now who is your friend?

I suggest that you quit hiding behind the tree on the playground and come out and confront Mike Arms on your own. Both of you need to settle this between the two of you, soon.

BTW, if I were a betting man, which I am not. I believe Arms can/will take you.

Tamara Shepherd's picture

?

"BTW, if I were a betting man, which I am not. I believe Arms can/will take you."

Honestly, Brian, maybe you should prayerfully consider the wisdom and...fruitfulness of a comment like this one.

Brian Hornback's picture

Tamara

you are right. I hope the comment was not taken seriously. It was meant and intended as a joke.

However, I apologize and retract the comment based on your wise and seasoned counsel.

Thanks.

CBT's picture

Hiding? That's a laugher.

Hiding? That's a laugher. I post here weekly. I'm in the book. I am very active in the community. As for issues concerning Tyler Harber or Mike Arms, I've answered any questions put to me, by law enforcement, the DA's office, reporters or anyone else. It's no game. It's just me telling the truth. And, I will continue to tell the truth.

I know it was Sandra who gave copies of my emails to Hartmann. She did so to prove the contents of the emails. Sandra called and told me she was going to do it before she took them to Hartmann. It was not her intention that they be published. That was Hartmann and McElroy's call. I think that decision was wrong for lots of reasons. But, I didn't whine and demand a meeting with Hartmann to complain. A simple phone call to Bruce and Jack was enough.

Brian Hornback's picture

CBT

I really don't want to go on and on about this, this will be my last advice to you on this issue.

However, my suggestion is that you schedule a meeting with Arms and both of you put this behind you. It doesn't serve either one of you well.

You don't need to have to be stressed everytime you see Arms name and the fact that you believe he lied or threatened you.

It really helped me to meet with Sandra and Hartmann in November. They gave me an opportunity to respond to Bean's errors and all is well.

Really you have a wife and you really need to bring closure to this and you and Arms need to settle it in a civil fashion.

I really don't believe that Arms is aware that you are so ticked over something that happened a year or so ago.

I will be happy to facilitate a meeting if you want.

CBT's picture

I have no need for closure

I have no need for closure on this issue.

Brian Hornback's picture

O.K.

I did my part. I offered and I will be available should you ever reconsider.

Bbeanster's picture

I did my part. I offered and

I did my part. I offered and I will be available should you ever reconsider.

Bwahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

CBT's picture

I really don't believe that

I really don't believe that Arms is aware that you are so ticked over something that happened a year or so ago.

I don't think it would come as any surprise. I have made my feelings known to those in the Mayor's office. The Mayor's office has someone who reads this blog frequently, if not daily. For all I know, they post here under an assumed name as well.

I don't take lightly to being threatened and later called a liar in the press. But hey, I've just made a few blog posts and written a letter to the paper. Those are minor irritations. But, rest assured. I believe in good, honest government. Should there be a governor's race in the future, I have sufficient information, a budget for radio and a memory that lasts more than 3 years.

Brian Hornback's picture

Beanster

you don't have to cry for CBT. Beanster "Bwahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!" It first started out like a sheep, but then it appears that you are crying. That isn't neccesary.

CBT is accustomed to the give and take of politics. Heck, he just announced his intention to run for Governor. CBT said "I have sufficient information, a budget for radio and a memory that lasts more than 3 years."

CBT's picture

No, no...not me. I'm happy

No, no...not me. I'm happy in my lawyer job. In politics, I am better at supporting candidates and working in campaigns.

bill young's picture

Don't worry,CBT

There will be a candidate for the Republican nomination from Knox County,it may even be a Mayor or, after we elect a woman for president,i see no reason we couldn't elect one governor but either way... it will be one you can campaign for from Mountain City to Memphis.

CBT's picture

Absent a run by our local

Absent a run by our local City Mayor, my candidate for Governor will likely hail from Chattanooga or Nashville.

Joe Taylor's picture

Werner?

I thought this blog was about John Werner and what happened under his and the Mike's watch...

Why has no media news people found John Werner and asked him direct questions... or why has no media news folks looked up Diana Jordan and asked who the third person was at the lobster lunch... why has no news media type called MaryLou and asked if Margie Lloyd took her to lunch and kept her informed on what was happening in county government... if these folks refuse to answer or return phone calls is that not a story too... what are they hiding?

Why does our news media not go after this story??? I can see plenty of smoke and a few small flames with this story...

Ennui's picture

Good point. I can't believe

Good point. I can't believe I haven't considered that before now.

Brian Hornback's picture

Mary Lou

as in Mary Lou Horner? Former Commissioner from the Seventh Ditrict. That Mary Lou?

Sandra and Betty ain't going to ask that question. After all Sandra was Mary Lou's campaign manager for upten campaigns.

Sandra Clark's picture

Mary Lou

Folks, the News Sentinel did a disservice to Mary Lou Horner in their lobster dinner coverage.

If you read the entire story carefully, you'll see that Margie Loyd said she was tasked to maintain a relationship with then-commissioners Jordan and Horner.

Then KNS reported that 3 people ate lunch -- one (probably Loyd) ate turkey and dressing for $10 and two others (probably Jordan and her unnamed guest)ate two lobsters each.

Only on the tag page did they say that Horner did not eat lobster. She wasn't even at the lunch in question. In fact, she is allergic to shellfish.

The ONLY time Mary Lou Horner's name has been mentioned in connection with the ongoing scandal is in the News Sentinel story cited above. Most unfair to Horner. -- s.

Sam's picture

The new sentinel story was

The new sentinel story was not fair to Mary Lou. Mary Lou served with honor and dignity and she been a good friend to a lot of people and she was a good county commissioner too.

lotta's picture

Mary Lou has a dark side

The new sentinel story was not fair to Mary Lou. Mary Lou served with honor and dignity and she been a good friend to a lot of people and she was a good county commissioner too.

Maybe the NS wasn't fair , I'm sure she was a good friend to someone and she is probably a good person but to say she was a good commissioner is a stretch IMO.

Brian Hornback's picture

Sandra,

In your post you say that the KNS story was a dis-service to Mary Lou. Are you suggesting that your Supervisor Bruce Hartmann, publisher of the Knoxville News-Sentinel and the publication with which you are employed (Shopper) was in error? If so are your actions and words toward your employer qualify you for insubordination?

You did not address it. So, I will ask the questions. Have you served as Mary Lou's campaign manager for the upten election cycles when she has been a candidate? Have you asked Mary Lou about the Regas lunch?

The last question. Are you the author and publisher of the many postcards (last count about 12-14) that were circulated to the voters of the Seventh district about R. Larry Smith during the 2006 election?

Brian Hornback's picture

It is a

question, not an accusation. Not Libelous.

Sandra can opt to not answer. I am requesting as a member of the media (blogger) for an upcoming feature article at my real blog.

This is similar to research that Beanster did or did not do for County Confidential.

If R.Neal gets an answer that it is an inappropriate question he can remove it and I will schedule an interview with Sandra at a later date.

Knoxquerious's picture

real blog...lol

I am requesting as a member of the media (blogger) for an upcoming feature article at my real blog.

Real blog? You need public comments and interaction to host one of those, something your site is desperately lacking.

BH's picture

You are Wrong....

not surprising. We have plenty of interaction and commenting. However, we established rules that forbid the kinds of things that get out of hand here at KnoxViews. We expect civil debate and name calling and profanity is not allowed. However, if you will comment and you do not break any of the rules, your comment will be posted.

Thanks for reading and thanks for caring.

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