Aug 10 2017
08:07 pm

"This is not someone who should ever have the nuclear codes, because it’s not hard to imagine Donald Trump leading us into a war just because somebody got under his very thin skin."

Hillary Clinton, June 2016

R. Neal's picture

Unfortunately, Clinton was

Unfortunately, Clinton was still battling two fronts at the time of those remarks. Funny how that worked out for us. Ha ha.

Tamara Shepherd's picture


On that point, I'm sure every primary candidate on both sides of the aisle agreed with her.

fischbobber's picture

Like it or not...

Sanders involvement was a net gain for Hillary in the general. Insinuating Sanders was responsible for Trump supporters not recognizing he was crazy is a false assumption. After the Wasserman-Schultz/ Braezeale debacle she wasn't going to overcome her negatives. The DNC had to go high road and be spotlessly clean to try to overcome the perception that Hillary had ethical issues. That didn't happen, though I would be hesitant to suggest that it was Hillary's fault. She would have been well served to clean up the DNC from 2000 -2016 rather than try a power grab. Guilt by association probably cost her the election.

Factchecker's picture

I can't believe people on the

I can't believe people on the left are still engaging in the same circular firing squad about the DNC being corrupt, especially when there's scant evidence, if any, that it has been. It's a big organization. Everybody can't be happy about its decisions and direction. Bernie's not a even a Democrat. Maybe that's a clue as to why it's okay to attack the DNC as some kind of swamp. Seem to be a popular (and populist) opinion, when things aren't going your way.

Individually, Brazile allegedly passed on some intended line of questions to the HRC campaign ahead of a primary debate. Egads! Might as well just state how thankful we should be that HRC was defeated because of the problems she would bring the country because of her lax email practices.

Tamara Shepherd's picture


FC, that attitude is just stunning at this point. There is simply no question that the DNC violated its own bylaws in the primary, that DWS was onboard with it, and that Brazile lost her job at CNN for the same reason.

I don't know that the lawsuit against them for these things will be successful, but if it isn't it will be because they're a private organization "free" to violate their own bylaws, not because they didn't violate them.

And I'm sick to the gills of hearing "Sanders isn't a Dem." Obviously, those bylaws allowed him to run anyway. If you don't like that bylaw, you need to advocate to change it, not to violate it, or you'll just keep pissing people off.

If you don't understand by now why so few Dems turned out at the polls--which is the primary reason HRC lost--and if you don't understand by now why the Dem Party is suffering its worst fundraising year ever--even as it continues to use Brazile's signature on its solicitations(!)--I don't know when you will.

No time to post some links on this subject, but for gawds sake read up on the topic. The Dem Party is circling the drain and attitudes like the one you just displayed surely aren't going to save it.

These aren't opinions, they're facts by every measure.

(Sorry, Randy. Didn't care to go there--and didn't in my earlier post here--but this is just ridiculous.)

Factchecker's picture

I like you dearly, Tamara,

I like you dearly, Tamara, truly I do, but I feel exactly as strongly to the contrary. Berniacs cost us the election and gave us Dear Leader Snowflake as much as anything or anyone else did. Bernie was not the Dem nominee, but your crowd is just as brainwashed against HRC and the allegedly corrupt DNC as FoxNews viewers are. (Have you taken a look at how the RNC works? There are only two viable parties.)

It's not worth bickering about in futility, but just look at your first comment above. You felt you needed to deflect credit away from HRC's comment, but she actually said it. Bernie has some great one-liners (that's about all he can point to for accomplishment), but he didn't say that. She did. Maybe it wasn't a brilliant observation, but at least give credit to her where it's due. You can't seem to do that. I think it's clear why.

Tamara Shepherd's picture


Berniacs cost us the election...

Who is this "us" and what will this "us" do if the 2020 presidential election should play out the same way for Dems?

Nobody has to vote for his party's presidential nominee if he doesn't want to, FC, and the Dem Party's hold on about half its members is tenuous.

As to my being "brainwashed," I wouldn't mind to sit down with you sometime and explain more fully what all my concerns are with the Dem party's drift to the right. We'll need to cover the market-driven ACA's lack of a public option (defeated when Dems held a 60-vote, filibuster-proof majority), its "family glitch" that left families like mine without "affordable" insurance (and paying up to 25% of gross income in annual premiums), its tax penalties up to 1/3 my family's annual taxable income when we could no longer afford coverage at all, how 89% of workers nationally came to be "exempt" from overtime wages, the rise of the (completely benefit-less) "contingent worker," Democrats for Education Reform...the list goes on and on.

Many Sanders supporters have said it already and I must, too: I haven't left the Dem Party yet, but it sure as hell has left me, so I'm shopping. FDR and Harry Truman both are rolling over in their graves at what passes for a "Democrat" in 2017.

Tamara Shepherd's picture


You felt you needed to deflect credit away from HRC's comment, but she actually said it.

Actually, I was thinking about Jeb Bush when I typed my first above comment. He was the first candidate to come out and say what all of us were thinking. Called Trump "unhinged."

Factchecker's picture

One clarification

Not accusing you of being brainwashed, just the Berniac movement in the abstract. Clearly true in terms of their zealotry and irrational hatred of Clinton. And her words were prophetic. Jeb's words weren't any different from those of dozens including plenty of "Never Trump" Republicans of that time.

Factchecker's picture

And an answer

Who is this "us" and what will this "us" do if the 2020 presidential election should play out the same way for Dems?

Nobody has to vote for his party's presidential nominee if he doesn't want to, FC, and the Dem Party's hold on about half its members is tenuous.

I expect a loyal Dem to commit to a Democrat winning by enthusiastically supporting and voting for the party's nominee in the general election. That's where the Berniacs went wrong. All that DWS shit became a self-destructive distraction then and they (not you) still can't get over it.

Tamara Shepherd's picture


I'm not over it, either, FC.

The "DWS shit" was "shit" because she was at the helm of the DNC and her hacked (or leaked?*) emails made her opinions pretty clear. Brazile was not only a CNN contributor but DNC vice-chair, too, when she she twice forwarded town hall questions to the Clinton campaign (for which CNN president Jeff Zucker called her behavior "unethical" and "disgusting"), then made matters worse by originally lying about it. Other DNC emails revealed committee members plotting to use Sanders' Judaism against him, which I'll call "disgusting."

The Sanders class action suit is still open. Plaintiff DNC moved to dismiss, but the judge said "no." I can't guess if petitioners who lost money in what they had been led to believe would be a legitimate primary can prevail, given that the DNC is a private organization. Still, it's telling that the judge has seen merit in their initial complaint.

In the ten plus years we've talked here, I've never before known you to defend behavior like this I outline above. I don't really think that you do. I suspect you just have a pretty big blind spot on this particular issue.


* You may or may not know that last Wednesday, an article in The Nation reported that the VIPS concludes the DNC emails were leaked, not hacked. The specifics were too technical for me to conclude yay or nay, frankly, and I understand the VIPS record for accuracy is mixed.

Knoxoasis's picture

I read that article too. The

I read that article too. The most interesting observation in it was the virtual impossibility to achieve the transfer rates the "hackers" would have to have achieved downloading the DNC data over international internet links,especially after running them through a VPN. The transfer rate necessary however fits nicely with what can be achieved with a thumb drive.

Add in the mysterious Imran Awan, DWS' IT guy who apparently had access to all of her stuff, and Julian Assange's claims from the beginning that the wikileaks dump was an inside job and you start to get a very interesting picture.

mjw's picture

Not a leak. Seriously.

I would look on that Nation article with extreme skepticism:

The Nation Article About the DNC Hack Is Too Incoherent to Even Debunk

Against the flim-flammery of the "technical" details in the Nation article, we have multiple sources that have described the forensics of the DNC breach, including the original investigator releasing some of the code used in the attack:

The CrowdStrike post provided many other technical details, including some of the code used in the attack, the way the groups' hacking tools communicated over the breached DNC network, and cryptographic hashes, which provide a fingerprint of the various tools. - Ars Technica

Knoxoasis's picture

Well hell. If you can't

Well hell. If you can't believe what you read in The Nation, then I don't know what the nation is coming to.

bizgrrl's picture

Heh. I had my doubts about

Heh. I had my doubts about the Nation article.

Knoxoasis's picture

Salon piles on.

Tamara Shepherd's picture


(Deleted accidental double-post.)

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