Jun 28 2007
07:18 am
By: djuggler

Are you for or against a national id? And why? The Senate votes tomorrow!

BoingBoing has some details as well as a link to a site which will fax your senator (if you oppose).

Personally I do not feel strongly one way or another about this one but that is probably because I have not followed the news on it. 17 states oppose it so there must be something bad about the proposal. I look forward to seeing comments here.

cdthomas23's picture

Seems Okay on the Surface

I'm like you, djuggler; I don't really feel strongly one way or the other. Also I have not followed this very closely. Essentially they have this now between driver's license and social security number. I think this would just put it in one place that would provide easier access to those agencies that need the info.

Craig Thomas

Carole Borges's picture

ID's don't matter until the facists take over...

You must have heard the famous Nazi line..."show me your papers, please?" ID's were used to show who was a Jew or not a Jew. Personally, I'd rather the government not be able to know everything about me, just in case there is ever a government here that becomes facist. By the time you realize it has happened it's often too late.

Orginally Americans were assured that social security numbers would NEVER be used for identification purposes. so much for that!

You're only free until you're not...

JaHu's picture

Carole, once again I'm in

Carole, once again I'm in total agreement with you.

Its just another step towards total control of the masses.

Adrift in the Sea of Humility

Joe P.'s picture

no thanks

The first introduction of the Real ID Act was an amendment to the bill funding tsunami relief. Now, as state after state has voted for the repeal of the Act, it gets tucked into the immigration bill.

If the Real ID Act were a viable and useful change, why always hid it inside other legislation?

Carole Borges's picture

Soon will be getting a chip in our ear

It will contain all the information about us, our nationality, our color and sex, our religous affiliation, our criminal record, our health information, our occupation and our current telephone, email and street address. We will be told this will be a great boon and that it will expedite any help or services we might need.

Then one morning someone will come and take us into a room and tell us we are suspected of something--a crime, a lewd act, insurrection or maybe treason. We won't know who they are because of the hood over our face. At first we'll laugh and maybe ask to call a lawyer, but we'll be told that's not possible in our case. Then we'll be put on an airplane and taken to some prison in a country that allows torture.

Hopefully at some point, if we're not insane by then or dead, our anonymous interrogators will tell us it was all a mistake. Some informant (the guy across the steet who hated having his daughter date our son or a right-wing nephew who saw us reading the Koran we got from the library) will be blamed. Our library books will of course be registered on our chip. Apologies will be made, and maybe we will even be released.

From that time on whenever someone says, "Come with me", all we'll want to do is run, but should we actually do that, there's a good chance we'd be shot in the back.

It starts out so innocently folks. The next thing you know you're screaming "Heil" at the top of your lungs and ready to turn in anyone who is not.

Our forefathers knew this could happen. They wanted to protect us by giving us a Constitution. To not defend it with everything we have is one huge mistake.

The Bush administration and Dick Cheney called the constitution "quaint". The have taken over the judicial system and are now trying to break the back of the Constitution by insisting need new latitudes and interpretations in order to protect us. The Suprememe Court will be useless as it will contain only judges who agree with the establishment.

No, no, no! Don't buy it. No national ID's please. They are totally un-American.

djuggler's picture

Could we put all our credit

Could we put all our credit cards, atm, library card, drivers license, store discount cards, and such on this so that we'd only have one piece of plastic?

Having my wallet reduced from 1 inch to a couple of millimeters would get my vote! Er, can't we just do that with a thumbprint?

Doug McCaughan

Socialist With A Gold Card's picture

Security theater

The Real ID Act is already law; it was passed in 2005, although it hasn't been implemented yet. The act requires all state drivers licenses to be standardized and their data stored either in a central database or in linked databases searchable from one state to another.

From what I understand, the immigration bill will require a Real ID-compliant identity card of some sort (whether it's a drivers license or something new) for any person who wants to work in the US. This ID will be checked and verified by DHS before a job applicant can be approved. Like the no-fly lists, you might show up on the "no-hire" list for unspecified reasons, with no reliable means of getting off the list or appealing the designation.

This isn't Real ID; it's a dramatic expansion of it, and it appears to be in trouble. Hopefully, this provision will be struck from the immigration bill.

Aside from the horrific privacy implications of this, Real ID and the DHS employment check represent an enormous security vulnerability. The more people who have access to a database, the less secure it is. If Real ID were fully implemented (even without the job check thing), it would be open to all government agencies which provide benefits (Social Security, VA, etc.), DMVs across the country, airlines, car rental agencies, ad infinitum. It is operationally impossible to secure a database with such broad access. This means our personal data would be at risk of theft, hacking, or deliberate misuse from day one.

Proof of identity is not security; it is political theater meant to promote the illusion of security. Weren't most (if not all) of the 9/11 hijackers traveling under their real names?

Real ID is a sham, and any expansion of it should offend anyone, left or right, who values privacy. I'm glad Tennessee is one of the states refusing to implement it.

--Socialist With A Gold Card

"I'm a socialist with a gold card. I firmly believe we need a revolution; I'm just concerned that I won't be able to get good moisturizer afterwards." -- Brett Butler

Socialist With A Gold Card's picture

Another article

P.S. See here for more on the subject.

--Socialist With A Gold Card

"I'm a socialist with a gold card. I firmly believe we need a revolution; I'm just concerned that I won't be able to get good moisturizer afterwards." -- Brett Butler

Carole Borges's picture

Sit down counterfeiters, it hasn't passed yet...

You can be sure the new IDs will only be on the streets for a few days when the faux ones start flying around the globe. If the counterfeiters were listed on Wall Street I think you'd see the market soaring right now.

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