Harold Ford Jr., appearing on David Gregory's MSNBC Road to the White House, responds to McCain top economic adviser Phil Gramm's remarks that the economic slowdown is a "mental recession" and that the United States is "a nation of whiners:"

We should have nominated this guy!

Anonymous's picture

I hope Gramm falls off his

I hope Gramm falls off his high horse!!!

Yellow Dog's picture

Obama was no slouch, either,

Obama was no slouch, either, in taking on the "nation of whiners" comment. I especially appreciated the parallels he drew between Gramm's comments on the "mental recession" and McCain's earlier comments regarding the "pyschological benefits" of a gas tax holiday. And then there was his comparison of Phil Gramm to another notorious psychologist, noting that "America already has one Dr. Phil."



bizgrrl's picture

I heard some of that comment

I heard some of that comment by Obama. My initial reaction was, he just insulted Dr. Phil. In doing so he was trying to be funny or sarcastic, not serious. HFJ's response was making this a very serious matter.

Now don't jump all over me. I'm sure Obama will be a great president. IMO, HFJ is a much better speaker.

Anonymous's picture


that is what you should have done. Nominated someone that couldn't carry his own state in a year of Democrat landslide and comes from a politically corrupt family. I am sure that would have worked for you.

WhitesCreek's picture

Harold is a charismatic speaker

He came closer to winning the Senate than anybody thought he possibly could. Corker's injection of his own personal fortune into the race in the last week was a large part of the difference.

I think he is seriously interested in the governor's office in 2010, but I have to think odds are against him unless he gets back into our state so that people have enough time to get over the fact that his wife, Emily, is white. She's also rather attractive, intelligent, and successful in her own right. They are a great couple, but will they be accepted in Tennessee?

Opinari's picture

An Observation

Judging by the huge lines this morning outside our local AT&T store, the economy isn't so bad that it's keeping people away from buying a new iPhone 3G.

I think Gramm could have been a little more eloquent with his preaching, to be sure. But essentially, his was an indictment of the media's coverage of economic events. There are issues with which we have to deal right now, the mortgage crisis and fuel prices right at the top. But, to me, when the economy shows growth, no matter how small, that is not a recessionary cycle. Perhaps Gramm should have simply made that statement, and moved on.

tin cup's picture

Gramm's an idiot (I thought

Gramm's an idiot (I thought he was dead) and I agree that Harold Ford, Jr. would be a much more attactive candidate than the presumptive Democratic nominee. I believe he came close to winning the Senate because he is a moderate Democrat in a relatively conservative state. On the other hand, if he couldn't win in 06, I'm not sure he can win........

Factchecker's picture

Relative to where?

...relatively conservative state

And what state is that? Part of your problem is we know your game. Whoever is running as a Dem is always the "most liberal." Just like Kerry and Gore. What were the odds that that could occur? While whoever is not running would be preferable because they're "more moderate." That's why Hillary became Rush's BFF (but only temporarily).

I take your words as an endorsement that we have the right candidate.

tin cup's picture

C'mon Factchecker

I don't think many would disagree that Tennessee is a relatively conservative state. I have no game - If you don't think Kerry, Gore and Obama are more liberal than Ford, what game are you playing? Evan Baye (Indiana) is an example of a moderate to even conservative Democrat. The fact is, you can't get the endorsement of the Democratic money machine without blowing the extreme Libs. Does Moveon.org mean anything? The Democratic party has sold out to the far Left.

I do endorse that for the Dems because that's a loser. This year may be unusual in that the stars are so far aligned against Republicans that we could possibly elect a radical far Leftist. Even so, doesn't the fact that - with everything the Dems have going for them and everything the Repubs have going against them - Obama's lead is only 3 - 4 points concern you?

Factchecker's picture

If you don't think Kerry,

If you don't think Kerry, Gore and Obama are more liberal than Ford,...

Not just "more" so than Ford. "Most" liberal is how it's put by the right. We only wish.

The Democratic party has sold out to the far Left.

Promise? You don't know what liberal is. There hasn't really been liberalism in government, oh--since just about forever. FDR maybe. Paul Wellstone was a liberal. And he was really a threat, wasn't he?

...Obama's lead is only 3 - 4 points concern you?

Keep thinking that.

Brian A.'s picture

Dow down another 200 points

Dow down another 200 points on rumors of a "mental recession."

Brian A.
I'd rather be cycling.

tin cup's picture

Many believe.....

Many believe Obama is the MOST liberal in the Senate. His very short experience lends credibility to that statement.

Thanks for setting me straight on the fact that I don't know what liberalism is. Far Left's position today (Obama) = Euro-style Socialism

Obama's lead today is less than Kerry's was at this point in time in 04.

Justin's picture

Whats wrong with "Euro Style

Whats wrong with "Euro Style Socialism"? The european economy (and the Euro) appears to be stronger than the US vs our worthless dollar and Chinese financed "war on terror".

gonzone's picture


That damn commie pinko Bush keeps bailing out all these banks and corporations with tax dollars or just outright nationalizing them and that just ain't right!
I'm calling him out on it, he's the most extremist leftist liberal ever yet!
We TN conservatives just ain't gonna stand for this government interference and misuse of our tax dollars!
Rush was right, Bush is the most liberal politician ever!

(hmmm, I really could sound like a tin cup echo.)

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson

WhitesCreek's picture

"Many believe..." But few really know

... a highly respected study by political science professors Keith Poole and Jeff Lewis ranked Obama as tied with Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE) as the 10th "most liberal" senator in 2007.


The real point of Conservative talking points is that they have an indefensible record. Since they can't run on their record they have to resort to making stuff up about Obama. This thread illustrates that.

Sven's picture

I think Ford's response is

I think Ford's response is marginally better than Obama's: perhaps a double as opposed to a single.

But this shudda been a grand slam, considering that Gramm slowpitched a fat softball right over the middle of the plate.

Mr. Carlisle said in 1878 that this was a struggle between the idle holders of idle capital and the struggling masses who produce the wealth and pay the taxes of the country; and my friends, it is simply a question that we shall decide upon which side shall the Democratic Party fight. Upon the side of the idle holders of idle capital, or upon the side of the struggling masses? That is the question that the party must answer first; and then it must be answered by each individual hereafter. The sympathies of the Democratic Party, as described by the platform, are on the side of the struggling masses, who have ever been the foundation of the Democratic Party.

There are two ideas of government. There are those who believe that if you just legislate to make the well-to-do prosperous, that their prosperity will leak through on those below. The Democratic idea has been that if you legislate to make the masses prosperous their prosperity will find its way up and through every class that rests upon it.

tin cup's picture


OK, you got me there, W'creek. He's only in the 90th percentile of Libs. I'm actually not shy about standing by the Conservative record. We've gone nearly 7 years without being "hit" by Al-Qaeda and we're annihilating them (I know Libs and media don't like to admit that!). We've had a relatively strong economy although weak dollar has caused some slowing in growth - foreign oil dependence and the massive amount we spend on it is driving most of this. I like a lot about W but I don't know what's worse - a tax and spend liberal or a tax cut and spend Republican. We definitely need a Conservative and I'm afraid McCain's not it.

Most important of all - and when you cut through all of the bull crap - we're really voting for a few Supreme Court Justices. W tried to screw this up the first time but came through big time with Roberts and Alito. His dad batted .500 with Thomas and Souter. With Obama, I'm afraid his nominees will make Ruth (Darth) Bader Ginsberg look like Robert Bork!

talidapali's picture

Hate to burst another of your little bubbles...

But we are NOT annihilating Al Qaeda. In fact, they have regrown their organization back to pre-9/11 strength.

So much for surging and crap like that. The only reason we haven't been hit in the last 7 years is we have been lucky. If you think that we are safer now you're dreaming. Cargo ships coming into our ports daily are either under-inspected or not inspected at all. While the TSA concentrates on making airline passengers strip practically naked to board a plane, all manner of stuff can come in through the seaports that the Bush administration wanted to turn over management of to a company based in Dubai...you know the country right next door to Saudi Arabia where Osama Bin Laden was born, raised, and began his terrorist career...


"You can't fix stupid..." ~ Ron White"
"I never said I wasn't a brat..." ~ Talidapali

Hearing the message's picture

What Gramm said was right,

What Gramm said was right, but he should have said it a different way. What we need in these times is a leader who will motivate us. The media is doom and gloom; I don't know how anyone could argue that. The most important issue this election year at all levels is our economy. If one were to look at things from an objective point of view, we are not in a recession, and certainly not in a depression, *but* we are headed in that direction if we as individuals don't recognize that what we do as individuals everyday has more impact on the future of our nation than our president.

We should give 100% at work, we should manage our money wisely, and we should support each other. We all have something to offer our country, we all have a part to play in our future. Anyone who advocates another adopt the position of victim is not a responsible leader. A responsible leader motivates others to treat all fairly, and to accept accountability for their own actions.

Brian A.'s picture

IndyMac Bank closed on

IndyMac Bank closed on rumors of a "mental recession."

Brian A.
I'd rather be cycling.

Rachel's picture

Oh, stop whining.

Oh, stop whining.

tin cup's picture

Miss Talidapali..........

Ok, you got me. We've just been lucky under W's watch. Do you think Obama will be as lucky? Patton was extremely lucky that the Battle of the Bulge went his way and Sherman's (lucky) March to the Sea was another good one. It's too bad Bill Clinton wasn't so lucky when he was president.

Thanks for clearing up that surge thing. I could have sworn that I heard that even the Iraqi's are starting to tell us to start collecting our toys and get ready to leave.

I feel so refreshed making my points without unnecessary name calling......

talidapali's picture

I think Obama will be better than lucky...

if, and I know this is a big if, he does what he has said he wants to do, he will refocus our efforts in Afghanistan to pursue Al Qaeda in the places we know they are...namely the mountains of Afghanistan and across the border into Pakistan.

When Bush got a bug up his wazoo to go after Saddam Hussein in Iraq, all our efforts at containing and dismantling Al Qaeda's networks in Afghanistan got short shrift. Al Qaeda did not exist in Iraq until after we invaded...Saddam Hussein was so jealous of keeping his power in Iraq, he wouldn't let them get a foothold. With him gone, they came right in and were able to do so because we had stopped the intense searching for Osama Bin Laden, we gave him breathing room to raise funds and train new fighters. The Bush administration failed the American public on this badly.

Obama also wants to try to plug the holes in the inspection of cargo ships and containers that are now un-inspected, for the most part. That will require more money and better training and focus for the TSA.


Oh and by the way, the Clinton administration warned the incoming Bush administration about the intelligence reports on Osama Bin Laden; and they had the report that George Tenet presented, that the President did not take seriously. The USS Cole was Clinton's wake up call, and his administration tried to do MUCH better in the intelligence reporting after that attack. Bush's people took the attitude that anything the Clinton administration told them was poppycock, and America paid for it on 9/11.


"You can't fix stupid..." ~ Ron White"
"I never said I wasn't a brat..." ~ Talidapali

Stick Thrower's picture

We've just been lucky under

We've just been lucky under W's watch.

Real lucky... except for 9/11.

The trolls have overrun this place.

See ya.

Justin's picture

The trolls have overrun this

The trolls have overrun this place.

Yeap. You have 2-3 fuc$nuts that comment on every thread spreading right wing bull$hit. Gets old quick.

Factchecker's picture

Tin Penny

It's too bad Bill Clinton wasn't so lucky when he was president.

In terms of... being targeted for removal from office by alleged Americans of the (disloyal) opposition party to the extent that he was criticized even for trying to go after OBL?

...even the Iraqi's are starting to tell us to start collecting our toys and get ready to leave.

They've been saying that for a LONG time, but Bush and McSame are still pretending they don't hear it. So please explain that to them.

Tell us all at KV, Tin Pan, that five 5 years ago you fully expected to be only to this point in Iraq now. Not to mention the prospect for a responsible Iraqi government is still as elusive as it was before your precious surge.

W's invasion of Iraq has been one endless disaster of historic proportions, only mitigated by less violence in recent months for a host of reasons that aren't flattering to Bush or the U.S. It's still a quagmire that makes Vietnam look easy to have walked away from.

And your hero Duhbya failed to protect our country while a member of a family close in with the Bush circle of friends carried out the worst attack ever on U.S. soil. He even stayed stuck reading a children's book while the attack was in progress. And you give him a freebie for that. I don't.

Tin Ear, why do you hate America?

talidapali's picture

You do know that the person...

who financed George Bush and his Arbusto Oil Company was Osama Bin Laden's half brother, don't you?

He helped George Bush start his company with Bin Laden family money.

"You can't fix stupid..." ~ Ron White"
"I never said I wasn't a brat..." ~ Talidapali

gonzone's picture

Exactly right

And guess who poppy Bush was in a meeting with during the attacks?
If you said Bin Laden's brother then you're a winner.
That darn Carlyle Group, consisting of ex-CIA and terrorist families was holding the meeting.

And let's take this even further:

Bin Laden said: US troops out of Saudi Arabia
GW Bush: Check

Bin Laden said: Oil at 141 dollars a barrel
GW Bush tenure: Check

Bin Laden said: make me more recruits with stupid military moves
GW Bush: Check

Bin Laden said: No more threats of "dead or alive"
GW Bush: Check

Bin Laden: quit chasing after me and let me get into Pakistan to control Al Queda
GW Bush: Check

There's more grand tin cuppiness out there too!

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson

Factchecker's picture

Yeah, thanks talidapali for

Yeah, thanks talidapali for the good reminders of that little matter of Afghanistan, which is in total FUBAR. So far OBL's pretty much had his way with W all the way around. Got our price of oil up to where he thinks it should be, ruined W's popularity, has the Taliban thriving, saw W take the bait on Iraq, etc. etc.

How many times has OBL been able to proclaim Mission Accomplished, thanks to W?

Up Goose Creek's picture

Phil Gramm

So Phil Gramm claims we aren't in a recession when the mess appears to be primarily his fault.


How ironic.

"Whoever corrects a mocker invites insult; whoever rebukes a wicked man incurs abuse."

WhitesCreek's picture

Molly Ivins on Gramm.

Gramm both looks like a snapping turtle and has the personality of one. When he ran for president in 1996 and finished fifth in Iowa, all the profiles written of him included the line “Even his friends don’t like him.”


As for Tin Cup, It's obvious that he can neither do 8th grade arithmetic, nor can he make the conservative case without lying. But don't worry...No other conservative can do that either.

One thing seems to escape mention when someone calls somebody a 'Liberal"...As it was with Jesus, "Liberal" is a good thing. As that Ivins piece clearly shows, conservatives are simply mean and nasty, having no desire to help anyone except their rich associates. (I almost used the term "rich friends" but that wouldn't be correct, would it?)

Brian A.'s picture

U.S. makes Sunday evening

U.S. makes Sunday evening announcement of Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac rescue plan on rumors of a "mental recession."

Brian A.
I'd rather be cycling.

tin cup's picture

How about it, Talidapali

Talidapali, you scolded me last week for name calling. Your silence is deafening over FactChecker's mangling of my name (Tin Penny, Tin Pan, Tin Ear). I don't think I can bear it, Talidapali. Please don't tell me you stand by your principles only when it suits your argument. Say it ain't so!

Whitescreek, "Liberal" is such a good thing that Liberals don't want to be called "liberal" anymore.

Justin, your argument is so persuasive. I'm teetering on coming over to the other side.......

talidapali's picture

Like I said in my other post...

I don't think mangling another person's name is fair or good for making a point. That cuts both ways. For both liberals and conservatives alike, but if you haven't noticed...no one started mangling your name until you had done it to several people here as well as more well-known personages. We try to deal respectfully with everyone here, until they have crossed the line more than a couple of times.

Perhaps if you had been able to self-moderate your comments, I wouldn't have had to call you on it and others wouldn't have paid you back in kind. Even a pacifist like me has learned the hard way that sometimes when someone slaps you in the face, you don't turn the other cheek, you hit them in the nose with brass knuckles.

That can be your lesson for today, liberal does not equate with pushover. Lots of us liberals believe in a strong defense, too.

"You can't fix stupid..." ~ Ron White"
"I never said I wasn't a brat..." ~ Talidapali

Factchecker's picture

Are you whining to help Gramm?

I was only treating you in kind.

The only reason why liberals wouldn't like the tag anymore is because the right has smeared the label has so badly for so long just for the purpose of associating the word with everything bad. It's what your side is good at. If that can be called "good."

Now that you've earned your spot as just another troll, I'll try better to ignore you. There aren't many freeper sites that aren't moderated to filter out any comments from the left. You're free here to make a fool out of yourself.

tin cup's picture

I'm not free to make a fool

I'm not free to make a fool of myself on this site afterall, Factchecker. I have been blackballed, thrown out, my authorization revoked. I get to respond until my IP address spotted then.........ZAP! I'm outa here.

I don't think I broke any rules but I'm positive I've ruffled some feathers. SNIFF. (I'll miss you, Rachel! But I'll sneak in to see you when I can.)

Gosh. I thought you'd want to hear diversified opinions. Guess not. Now what were we saying about liberals?

gonzone's picture

Your mistake

We want to hear informed and intelligent opinions, not the same right wing drivel we can hear ad nauseum from Rush or any Freeper every day. Too bad you couldn't figure that out, we might have had some interesting conversations.

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson

tin cup's picture

Yea, Rush told me. Great

Yea, Rush told me. Great analysis Gonzo.

gonzone's picture


Just calling them like I'm seeing them.

You've certainly felt free to go about casting aspersions on others so getting a little in return shouldn't hurt too badly. I desperately would like to see you prove me wrong by entering into a conversation/dialogue with intelligent, rational and informed views instead of manufactured BS talking points (that we see every day, same BS, different mouths) from the lunatic fringe right. A good place to start would be backing up what you assert with links to proof from reputable, independent sources. (P.S., that does not include Free Republic or industry sponsored propaganda sites.)

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson

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