I like Wes Clark, and the McCainiac reaction to his comments is, as usual, romper room stupid. But as Andrew Bacevich points out, Clark is responsible as anyone for the recent surge of unthinking militarism into politics.

The Democrats have got to figure out a way of projecting competence and confidence in military matters without reinforcing this man-on-a-horse, Tippecanoe-and-Tyler-Too bullshit.

Squirrel, here's the problem. The Dem's can say there's no reason to cede authority on military matters. The fact is they have ceded credibility on military matters - and patriotism whether they like it or not - to the GOP. It has nothing to do with John McCain's POW status or his military record. In fact, it has nothing to do with John McCain at all. Rather, it has to do with Moveon.org's "General Betray Us" ad and the party leaders' unwillingness to denounce it (including Hillary, Barrack, Harry, et al). It has to do with John Murtha's quick guilty judgment of our military personnel when in fact they turned out to be innocent. It has to do with 04 Dem candidate John Kerry's statement about our military terrorizing innocent women and children in the Iraqi night. Oh, and yea, it did get under people's skin that he threw his medals away out of protest and sold his fellow military buddies out on TV. It has to do with the Clinton's statement about "loathing the military" in the 90's. It has to do with Obama's preacher of 20 years denouncing (and blaming) America (G.D. America!). But Barrack couldn't have known...Huh?! It has to do with the Left's glee with the Supreme Court decision to allow POW's at Guantanimo the right to trial in our court system. It has to do with the Left's willingness to hamstring our intelligence community from conducting surveillance without the threat of lawsuit.

What's laughable is that with these last two issues, the Left will say that they're protecting our constitutional rights even though it may be painful. These same hypocrits have no problem, in the next breath, favoring the so-called "fairness doctrine" which blatantly removes first amendment rights.

I'm sorry, Squirrel. Call me an ignorant hillbilly or even racist as some have. I don't respect John Kerry. I don't respect Wes Clark or Hillary or Harry or Nancy P. or Barrack. The only thing I respect about what you wrote is your service. I thank you for that.

It is the media. The Dems then cowtow to the media, swallowing their false assertations that "the people" are upset with Wes Clark (or whatever is the controversy of the day).

We can change this. Take action by 1) commenting on media message boards 2) writing the media to express your displeasure with their "liberal bias" 3) writing your politicians 4) turning off the media 5) turn to blogs instead 6) spread the word -- revolt against the media!

A guy goes to Vietnam to fight for your freedom and mine, flies very dangerous missions over Hanoi, gets shot down and spends 5 years being tortured by the communists. "If anything, it just means he's a lousy pilot?!"

All you L-Wingers have to do is open your mouth and you answer your own questions. I'm offended by such a cavalier remark about a true American war hero.

As far as the way "BushCo has manipulated and abused and murdered our military personnel"......Let's bet on how the military votes in this election. Military personnel voted overwhelmingly for Bush in 00 and even more overwhelmingly in 04. (Even though Gore did try to disenfranchise them in Florida in 00.) McCain will win at least 60% of the military vote in this election. Those mean fascists!!

Take another pill, Rach. If they're caught fighting our troops on the battlefield without a uniform, they should be executed by firing squad on the spot (i.e., blind folded and shot in the head on the battlefield). That's how these things were handled in past wars. Look it up. Whether it's about POW's or a habeas decision or just forcing our gov't to tell ALL of them why they're being held as unlawful combatants, this is a loser for the demos.

And I never said McCain's service or having been shot down and tortured as a POW qualified him to be president. In fact, I don't believe that. I do believe he's earned the right and respect not to be written off as a "lousy pilot" by some left wing kook like Kona-head. "McCain's alleged military experience?!!!" Do you think Konalips really means that, Rach?!

Uh, oh. He called her "Rach".

It's Republicans who have smeared McCain over his military service.

Nothing Wes Clark said compares to what Rove did to McCain during the South Carolina GOP primary fight in 2000 -- the Bush campaign cranked out push polls full of insinuations that McCain's years in captivity had left him mentally unhinged and were a campaign staple.

That and stories about his "black" adopted daughter.

http://www.bartcopnation.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_...

Johnny Ringo's smart and fun to argue with, Half Cup. Why don't you ask him to teach you how.

Being a fighter pilot who scored low at the academy and was disliked by his peers doesn't make McCain a wise person in the mantel of past great American Presidents.He has already shown poor judgment with Charlie Black, Phil Graham and several of Bushco's neocons and now this foul swift boat fellow on his side as well....and he has a 95 percent voting rating with Bush in the last year or so.McCain is not the maverick he claims.He's simply more of the same.The same neocons who were like rabid dogs, foaming at the mouth to attack Iraq are foaming at the mouth to attack Iran and we simply can't afford another mistake of that magnitude.

I repeat.....a "lousy pilot" and alleged military experience???!!! Now we're talking possible mental problems as a result of 5 1/2 years in captivity? Is there evidence of that?

I am an undecided voter. I know I will not vote for Obama. I may not vote at all so I'm not exactly on McCain's presidential bandwagon. But to use Squirrel's term, I get cranky when I see L wingers like Bean Head whining about who they like to argue with while ignoring the fact that all their friends are throwing BS mud at a decorated war hero.

I get cranky when I see L wingers like Bean Head whining about who they like to argue with while ignoring the fact that all their friends are throwing BS mud at a decorated war hero.

But you obviously don't mind thowing "BS mud" if it's directed at a Democratic war hero. Or if it's being thrown at McCain by the hard right.

See this Slate article for a rationale, but here's an excerpt:

McCain, as [Clark] noted, has never held a position of command. Clark, on the other hand, has held many—not just as a company commander in Vietnam and at Ft. Knox but also as the supreme allied commander in Europe and, in that capacity, as the commander of the air war in Kosovo.

Except your Slate opinion was written in 2001 by a senior editor at The Weekly Standard. I'll put Kaplan's credentials up against Christopher Caldwell's any day of the week. Caldwell's bio is short enough to copy here:

Christopher Caldwell is a senior editor at The Weekly Standard, as well as a regular contributor to the Financial Times and Slate. His writing also frequently appears in The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, where he is a contributing editor to the paper's magazine, and the The Washington Post. He was also a regular contributor to The Atlantic Monthly and The New York Press in the past.

Caldwell is a graduate of Harvard College, where he studied English literature. His father-in-law is the journalist Robert Novak. He has five children.

Wow. That's impressive. They forgot to put the quote marks around journalist in front of Novak's name, though. I added the bold.

But feel free to trot out your Clark bashing as soon as he gets on Obama's ticket. More relevant, I think you'd do better to get over your obsessive hate for Obama. It's clearly unwarranted and maybe pathological.

...grabbed this guy by the shirt collar and had snatched him up like he was throwing him up out of the chair to tell him what he thought about him or whatever ...

"I don't know what he was telling him but I thought, 'Good grief, everybody around here has got guns and we were there on a diplomatic mission.' I don't know what had happened to provoke John, but he obviously got mad at the guy ... and he just reached over there and snatched ... him."

Very nice. Just the guy you want to have a finger on the nuclear war button.

Well said, Johnny Ringo. I'm told you can be my mentor. At least give me lessons..............

I do think the real Obama will do himself in. And, no, he's not terrorist as Mr. [Democrat] Hobbs has suggested. But he is very liberal (OK if that's what you want), very inexperienced (not OK in today's world), not principled (flip flopper for political expedience - to lapel pin or not to lapel pin, that is the question), questionable judgment (20 yrs with Rev. Wright?), etc., etc., etc.

The real shame = if Obama loses, McCain wins.

...charges that a politcal party has done away with the civil tort damages system, ...

They have tried and want (proudly, I might add) to do that. What's the real difference? I do hate the GOP, at least the modern hard right, neocon, fundamentalist one. Not the one Goldwater knew. They've earned the scorn of all patriotic Americans. Ditto Bush and Cheney. They earned it too in damages to country and Constitution.

I won't dignify the rest and Tin Alley's tripe with comment.

You're splitting some very fine hairs. A major plank of the modern GOP has been to gut the ability for citizens as individuals or groups to legally challenge corporate behavior and its effects. They're proud of this. I think it's digusting. What do you think of it?

I'm not sure anyone knows all the shit the GOP has stuck into federal legislation to achieve this, but at best there's a bad name associated with anyone who wants to challenge business, and he/she is ridiculed and demeaned, at least by Republicans like yourself. Witness John Edwards.

Moreover the intent and motives are still there. There's a difference in effect between murder and attempted murder, but the latter is still a crime. Do you want to coddle attempted murderers? I want to charge them with attempted murder.

You are hooted off this board. Routinely. Are you a masochist?