Mon
Jun 9 2008
01:06 pm
McCain
69% (78 votes)
Obama
31% (35 votes)
Total votes: 113
tin cup's picture

Thank you Bean.......

Thank you Bean. I've read all of your links and what you've written. I stand by my opinion.....I think your statement about Reagan's civil rights record being mean-spirited and bigoted is laughable. He was no more a racist or bigot than Obama is a terrorist. Both are whacky statements made by members of the Great Left Wing.

Bbeanster's picture

Such a persuasive answer,

Such a persuasive answer, Tin Cup.
But even if you can't back up your opinion of Reagan with facts, history or cogent argument, at least you have the courage to put your name out there and stand behind it.
You flying a Confederate flag for the 4th?

bill young's picture

vs

RR vs FDR

It's 1980 vs 1932

I'm 4 Obama

tin cup's picture

For the last time, Beanster...........

Beanster, this is your last chance. You said, "...as long as GOPers persist in the quest to cannonize Reagan while whitewashing his mean-spirited and downright bigoted civil rights record."

I challenged you to provide specific examples. Here's what you've come up with: 1) He kicked off his campaign in Neshoba County, MS, 2) He proclaimed support for states' rights, 3) You inserted a link to some things Jesse Helms said, 4) You yapped about George Wallace and things he said, 5) You claimed you were giving me a history lesson while I merely ranted "Reality according to Tin Cup," 6) You implied I was merely hiding behind anonymity and 7) The Gipper put Nelson Mandela on a terror watch list.

If Reagan's civil rights record was truly mean-spirited and downright bigoted, surely you can do better than that, Bean!

Bbeanster's picture

For the last time? That's a

For the last time?
That's a laugh.But at least you've gotten over your attack of the vapors long enough to be semi-coherent, so I'll give you a good faith answer (that you probably won't read).

1. Why don't YOU tell me why Reagan chose to make the first campaign speech of his 1980 presidential campaign in the hole-in-the-wall town of Philadelphia Mississippi? What was it known for, besides the unsolved murders of civil rights workers Goodman, Schwerner and Chaney? And why he did he give a shout out to states' rights, which was code for opposition to civil rights, and was the mantra of George Wallace ad the Dixiecrats? By your own admission, you are a big states' rights fan, so you should be able to explain this in a rational way. Barack and Hillary chose Unity New Hampshire to give their unity speech, Reagan chose Neshoba County to talk about states' rihts.

2. Reagan opposed the Martin Luther King holiday, and said many disparaging things about Dr. King in the process. He signed the MLK Day legislation, but only because it passed with a veto-proof majority -- although revisionist Reagan-worshipers try to say otherwise.

3. Reagan's southern strategy employed using other code language to attract the support of bigots -- like his notorious Chicago "welfare queen" --

(link...)

Specifically note this graf:

"Over a period of about five years, Reagan told the story of the "Chicago welfare queen" who had 80 names, 30 addresses, 12 Social Security cards, and collected benefits for "four nonexisting deceased husbands," bilking the government out of "over $150,000." The real welfare recipient to whom Reagan referred was actually convicted for using two different aliases to collect $8,000. Reagan continued to use his version of the story even after the press pointed out the actual facts of the case to him.

4.Reagan attempted to overturn the IRS's revocation of Bob Jones University's tax exempt status (it was revoked because of BJU's 'no interracial dating' policy). He was not successful.

(link...)

(actually, I already posted this link, and you evidently didn't read it, so I doubt you'll do so now.)

5. Reagan's support of South African apartheid (see Nelson Mandela). I won't post links to this, because nobody -- not even you-- could deny that he was on the dark side of this issue.

6. Then, there was the policy of dismantling civil rights enforcement --

(link...)

Really, this is too easy, and I've got somewhere I need to be.

Here's the deal -- Reagan pandered to racists. Own it.

Bbeanster's picture

Breaking: Mandela removed from 'Terrorist Watch' list

In time for his 90th birthday
He was put there by The Gipper.

(link...)

Anonymous's picture

Clinton/Gore

Why didn't Clinton/Gore remove him from the list?

Anonymous's picture

Reagan Eulogy

Republican Platform
(link...)

RONALD REAGAN
believed that people were basically good, and had the right to be free.
He believed that bigotry and prejudice were the worst things a person could be guilty of.
He believed in the Golden Rule and in the power of prayer.
He believed that America was not just a place in the world, but the hope of the world.
As Ronald Wilson Reagan goes his way, we are left with a joyful hope he shared.
May God bless Ronald Reagan and the country he loved.
________
President George W. Bush
Funeral Service for Former President Ronald Wilson Reagan
Washington National Cathedral
Washington, D.C.

tin cup's picture

Confuse the issue beanster.....

Beanie, I like how you threw the mean spirited bigoted civil rights record at Reagan then used Jesse Helms and George Wallace to back up your claims. Nice. Again, where do they teach that?

Johnny Ringo's picture

It's true that the concept

It's true that the concept of "state's rights" was severely tarnished by it's use as justification for some states' intransigence on federal civil rights legislation. But is the concept due for a re-thinking? The reaction, and the resulting reflexive opposition to the concept of state's rights is the reason the federal government can essentially ignore the California medical marijuana referendum and Oregon's decision to allow assisted suicide, is it not?

Perhaps the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction. Just sayin'.

Up Goose Creek's picture

Boston

Boston was very racially polarized at the time. I'm surprized it was to that extent.

____________________________________
"Whoever corrects a mocker invites insult; whoever rebukes a wicked man incurs abuse."

bill young's picture

George C. Wallace

I looked up Governor Wallace's '63 Inaugural address.

I quote

"From this Cradle of the Confederacy,this very Heart of the Great Anglo-Saxon Southland..In the name of the greatest people that ever trod the earth,I draw the line in the dust & toss the gauntlett before the feet of tyranny & I say Segregation today,Segregation tomorrow,Segregation forever.

We can no longer hide our head in the sand & tell ourselves that the ideology of our free fathers is not being attacked and is not being threatened by an other idea.

It's logic..is irresponsible as it runs the full gamut of human desires..including the theory that everyone has voting rights.

The International racism of the liberals seek to persecute the International white minority to the whim of the International colored majority.

If We amalgamate into the one unit..We become a mongrel unit."

I think folks that voted for Wallace for president in '64,'68,'72 & '76 got the message.

FYI:Wallace got creamed in the south by Carter in the '76 primaries but won Boston,Mass.

bizgrrl's picture

FYI:Wallace got creamed in

FYI:Wallace got creamed in the south by Carter in the '76 primaries but won Boston,Mass.

That needed a little emphasis.

tin cup's picture

Probably?

Appreciate you clearing up the question about my being a racist, beanster. BTW, "he is actually sometimes quoted......?????" Who actually sometimes quoted Reagan as vowing not to be "out-n******d?" When did he say that? Do you have any of those quotes? If it actually sometimes happened, that means he was quoted more than once. If that's the case, you should have little difficulty finding such a quote and the person quoting.

I think you're full of it, beaner. I think you're full of yourself, too. Where do you get off re-writing history and deciding who's a racist? Next thing you know, Obama will be preaching to us about patriotism.............

Rachel's picture

Who actually sometimes

Who actually sometimes quoted Reagan as vowing not to be "out-n******d?"

Nobody. Nor did Bean say that anybody did. She was talking about Wallace. You need lessons in reading comprehension, for gawds sake. And one of those pills you were recommending for me.

Bbeanster's picture

Appreciate you clearing


Appreciate you clearing up the question about my being a racist, beanster. BTW, "he is actually sometimes quoted......?????" Who actually sometimes quoted Reagan as vowing not to be "out-n******d?" When did he say that? Do you have any of those quotes? If it actually sometimes happened, that means he was quoted more than once. If that's the case, you should have little difficulty finding such a quote and the person quoting.


Jeeze, get a grip, and maybe some reading lessons. You asked:

Does that make me a racist? Were all "George Wallace inclined voters" racists?

That was the question I was answering -- whether people who were for George Wallace were racists. I said "Probably." And I'm probably right.

You sure like to make up silly crap to rant and rave about. I'm giving you history, you're giving me Reality According to Tin Cup. Ahh, the joys of anonymity.

Bbeanster's picture

Does that make me a racist?

Does that make me a racist? Were all "George Wallace inclined voters" racists?

Probably.

"States' rights" was code for resisting the federal government's attempts at integration, and Wallace was one of the last open practitioners of states' rights. He didn't talk about race early in his career, but after losing to an arch-segregationist in 1958, he vowed never to be "out segged" again (he is actually sometimes quoted as saying he'd not be "out-niggered"). His campaign literature appealed openly to racism, showing pictures of little white girls surrounded by menacing black guys to illustrate the dangers of race-mixing.

Near the end of his life, he renounced his earlier "states' rights" views and publicly apologized to black Alabamians for his anti-integration, anti-black policies, pronouncements and platforms -- even visited a black church to ask for forgiveness.

Why would he have felt the need to beg forgiveness for being a racist?
Wallace stands convicted by his own confession.

tin cup's picture

George Wallace inclined voters.....

I love the South, including the deep South. I generally favor states' rights. I will not vote for Obama although I consider myself an "undecided voter" (McCain, Barr or not vote at all). Does that make me a racist? Were all "George Wallace inclined voters" racists?

Sven's picture

So you can't support states'

So you can't support states' rights or kick off a campaign in the deep south without being called a racist?

Not when you kick off a campaign in the deep south with a speech about state's rights. The appearance was suggested to the Reagan campaign by the Mississippi GOP, who said it would win over "George Wallace inclined voters."

tin cup's picture

Interpretation all right.......

So you can't support states' rights or kick off a campaign in the deep south without being called a racist? Now who's being closed minded Beaner?

Why not damn the south. How bout g** damn the whole US of A?!!

tin cup's picture

Bigoted civil rights record.....

Hey Beanie, some examples of Reagan's mean-spirited and bigoted civil rights record? Or, this time, you can say something else stupid about Reagan and attach an article by Strom Thurmond when he was a dixiecrat in the 40's. (Where do they teach that ploy?)

I think we all know where this is headed (even us stupid, redneck, embarrassing hillbillies get it). If you won't vote for Obama, by definition, you are a racist and you are a close minded.............

Bbeanster's picture

Oh? So how do you interpret

Oh?

So how do you interpret Reagan's kicking off his presidential campaign in Neshoba County Mississippi and proclaiming his support for states' rights on the graves of three murdered civil rights workers? What message was he trying to convey?

Anonymous's picture

TN vote for change

This is a great year to vote for a third party or independent candidate in Tennessee.
Try the Green Party (link...) or the libertarian Party (link...) or Ralph Nader or even the Constitution Party. One of my favorites is the Personal Choice Party. A proportional representative system is a more democratic form of government. We could make every vote count and truly represent the people.

knoxvegas99's picture

This seems apropos

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." - H.L. Mencken

Larry Van Guilder

jmcnair's picture

Yes, he can.

I had been assuming that McCain would hold onto TN's electoral votes, but I'm really having second thoughts. There are four big reasons.

1) Obama has real, infectious optimism. I think that was a lot of the appeal of Reagan and the whole Morning in America thing. Americans like genuine optimism.

2) McCain is a truly bad candidate. He looks and is old, short, weak and confused. He contradicts himself, and his temper gets him to say stupid things.

3) Economy and gas prices. (My personal feeling is that the unanswered "Gore will bring $4/gal gas" ad was what sunk him in his home state.) Change is called for. Obama's it.

4) The war. It was a mistake and people know that.

Other things (Barr pealing off the far right, effective organization, wide-based Internet fund raising, supreme court over-reaching) will contribute to what could be a landslide Dem victory this fall with Barack leading the parade.

tin cup's picture

Various forms of Capitalist Ideology

Wow! I can only hope that my vote cancels yours out metulj. You sound like a RECENT graduate of our university system and a certain Obama supporter. Your father-in-law doesn't need to "crack a book in years" to know the evils of Marxism. I'll bet he works and (over) pays taxes........

Cuba....a fine example of a surviving Marxist state.

metulj's picture

No. I am getting my PhD from

No. I am getting my PhD from a university in a state where people actually pay taxes. Read: Not Tennessee. If Cuba is Marxist, then why do they allow so much foreign direct investment by captitalists?

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

Johnny Ringo's picture

Maybe because the want to

Maybe because the want to hang us with the rope we sell them?

Sorry. At my age it's hard to resist a good red scare aphorism.

Justin's picture

I half expected the old

I half expected the old "Obama is a Marxist" line myself.

Rachel's picture

One serving of Marxism

metulj's picture

My Father-in-Law, a man who

My Father-in-Law, a man who hasn't cracked a book in years, likes to trot out the "X person who is not a member of the GOP is a Marxist" trope all the time. I asked him if he had ever read any Marx, or beyond that, Marxian theory. "I don't have to. I know it's wrong." Well, you are right: It is wrong. Well, some of it. But a great deal of what Marx said has come to pass, especially the destruction of the Western family by commodification, globalization, the death of the nation-state, the alienation of the individual in terms of atomistic interest (that explains gun rights folks IMHO), etc. Strange though, these things didn't happen because of Marxism, but because of what Marx and Marxists criticize: various forms of Capitalist ideology.

Signed,

Not a Marxist.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

tin cup's picture

Dumbass Rednecks

There are a lot of us dumbass rednecks ready for a change....not quite ready for Obama's brand of socialism though. I guess this makes me part of the unlearned and uneducated crowd, too. It takes a village........idiot.

metulj's picture

If Obama is a socialist,

If Obama is a socialist, then please point to a single policy statement that he has made to that effect. Whoops! He hasn't really made any policy statements. Hey, tin cup, better get ready. Rush is coming on at noon to feed you more lines....

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

Johnny Ringo's picture

Because he's dead?

Because he's dead?

metulj's picture

And therefore not terribly

And therefore not terribly unlike McCain.

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

Johnny Ringo's picture

Well, the truth is he's not

Well, the truth is he's not alone.

Bbeanster's picture

Hey, Ringo-- You saying

Hey, Ringo--
You saying there ain't a lotta rednecks in Bristol?

p.s.:
Lets do lunch:-)

Knoxquerious's picture

Anyways...how bout an

Anyways...how bout an over/under on Utah?

mr bigstuff's picture

what have the republican'ts

what have the republican'ts done in the last 8 years to make any sane person vote for more of the same? remember these dumbass redneck unlearned uneducated fox news watchimg fools voted for mike huckabee in the republican't primary. these morons enjoy making sure that tennessee is the laughing stock of the good ole usa. these fools would vote for w .............. a third time given the opportunity. they still believe invading iraq was a good idea. they think $4/gallon gasoline is a good thing. they believe the oil companies deserve the money they are stealing. how dumb are these fools?

Johnny Ringo's picture

remember these dumbass

remember these dumbass redneck unlearned uneducated fox news watchimg fools voted for mike huckabee in the republican't primary. these morons enjoy making sure that tennessee is the laughing stock of the good ole usa.

Wow. "Why won't these stupid, ignorant, racist, inbred uneducated morons vote for us?" Look in a mirror buddy. You insult the electorate, and guess what? They don't vote for your guy.

metulj's picture

But the trouble with that is

But the trouble with that is even though the GOP did the proper thing and not insult the electorate thereby garnering their votes, the GOP proceeded to foist an endless way, wrecked economy, troubled schools, etc. on that same electorate. If just not insulting people is all they want in a leader, why not run Mr. Rodgers?

True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler

R. Neal's picture

Sounds like an agent

Sounds like an agent provocateur to me.

GMcKinney's picture

Politically Embarrassed to be from TN

An example of a typical TN voter: I once worked with a man whose wife required alot of medicine and medical attention. He was also a union worker. He is a republican and voted for Bush in 2008, in spite of Bush's big business policy skyrocketing our medical costs and republicans stepping on the working class and unions. In 2008, we have the choice to help fix this nation, or continue our current path; $4/gal for gas, and endless war, and struggling economy. If Tennesseans are dumb enough to give G.W.'s policies another 4 years in the White House then they deserve what they get. Is it too much to ask people to think?

mae's picture

I so agree with you

It embarrasses me as well. Especially when I hear racist talk about Obama on the local radio stations. There is one small station in the SE area that is particularly offensive.

Because of the Electoral College, my vote won't even count. I'm really sick of this red state, blue state BS. Four years ago I was floored by all of the Bush/Cheney political signs in the front yards of obviously poverty stricken and uneducated people. They don't have a clue, but they are the majority and will no doubt hand our state over to McCain.

Johnny Ringo's picture

"Why won't these poor,

"Why won't these poor, stupid, uneducated, ignorant hillbillies vote for us?"

Maybe you answered your own question Mae.

Bbeanster's picture

You left out the racist

You left out the racist part, J. Ringo.--

Johnny Ringo's picture

I'm sure that part is

I'm sure that part is coming. In fact, it already has.

Bbeanster's picture

how DARE he say that

how DARE he say that Republicans would appeal to racism?

(link...)

(link...)

Johnny Ringo's picture

Well it's a comfort to know

Well it's a comfort to know that in this new era of post-partisan transformative politics, we've left all that behind.

Can we simply agree that both candidates and/or their supporters will say just about anything to win?

Bbeanster's picture

Can we simply agree that

Can we simply agree that both candidates and/or their supporters will say just about anything to win?

Nope, we can't simply say that, as long as GOPers persist in the quest to canonize Reagan while whitewashing his mean-spirited and downright bigoted civil rights record. A lot of people I know have fond memories of THIS Republican champion, too:

(link...)

Yep, I cannot imagine why Obama would think he's going to be targeted.

These are strange times indeed when Republicans think that throwing out the term "race card" should end critical discussion of the issue that is America's greatest curse.

Lost Medicaid Funding

To date, the failure to expand Medicaid/TennCare has cost the State of Tennessee ? in lost federal funding.

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