"I've never been convicted of a crime between the two of us. Only one of us has been convicted of a crime and that's you," the mayor told Pinkston.
The gloves came off during yesterday's special County Commission meeting to review an audit of Knox County p-card expenses. The issue of travel allowances also came up.
Despite Mayor Ragsdale's vigorous defense under oath and Commissioner DeFreese's failed motion calling for Ragsdale's resignation, Commission took harsh action.
The Knox County Commission formally censured Mayor Mike Ragsdale on Monday and will force him and his top aides to pay back nearly $40,000 in questionable purchasing-card charges.
Commission also voted to refer the matter of Cynthia Finch's fabricated receipts to District Attorney General Randy Nichols for criminal investigation.
In other action, a proposal to put liquor by the drink up for a vote was withdrawn because Law Director John Owings said County Commission isn't authorized to put it on the ballot. (Does anybody know why that is?) He said citizens would have to petition for a referendum.
Lobster was apparently not served during the marathon meeting, but there was definitely some grilling.
Submitted by Johnny Ringo on Tue, 2008/05/20 - 12:38pm.
In other action, a proposal to put liquor by the drink up for a vote was withdrawn because Law Director John Owings said County Commission isn't authorized to put it on the ballot. (Does anybody know why that is?) He said citizens would have to petition for a referendum.
TCA §57-3-106 seems to suggest that a referendum can only be placed on the ballot by citizen petition. Nothing in my quick reading of the statute seems to authorize the county legislative body to place such a referendum on the ballot:
(c) Elections provided for in subsections (a) and (b) shall be called and held as elections on questions by the county election commission at the next regular election of the county or municipality, as the case may be, upon receipt of a petition signed by residents of the county or municipality, as the case may be, to a number amounting to ten percent (10%) or more of the votes cast in the county or municipality, as the case may be, for governor of the state of Tennessee at the then last preceding gubernatorial election, requesting the holding of such election. Except that, no election under this chapter may be placed on the same ballot or conducted on the same day of a primary election. Such petition shall be addressed to the county election commission of such county, or county in which such municipality is located, and shall read, except for such address, substantially as follows:
“We, registered voters of _____________________________________ (here insert name of county or municipality, as the case may be), do hereby request the holding of a local option election to authorize retail package stores to sell alcoholic beverages as provided by law.”
Such petition may be in two (2) or more counterparts.
Liquor by the drink is provided for in TCA §57-4-103, which reads in part:
a) (1) The provisions of this chapter shall be effective in any jurisdiction which authorizes the sale of alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises in a referendum in the manner prescribed by § 57-3-106.
Submitted by R. Neal on Tue, 2008/05/20 - 12:39pm.
Interesting. A couple of things. Since Knox County operates under its own charter, I wonder if there's something in there about that? (Will have to go look). Also, why all the kerfluffle about Commission not putting the One Question referendums on the ballot? Was it because they had to do with amending the Charter?
Submitted by Johnny Ringo on Tue, 2008/05/20 - 12:46pm.
Well, it does so far. To the best of my knowledge, that question has not been litigated yet. Also afaik, there's nothing in the Charter regarding the sale or regulation of wine and hard liquors.
Submitted by Johnny Ringo on Tue, 2008/05/20 - 12:55pm.
Yes there is (Charter §8.05), but whether it trumps the state laws on the regulation of alchohol is a question which has not been raised or ruled upon, to the best of my knowledge.
whether it trumps the state laws on the regulation of alchohol
OK, let me see if I can follow along.
The Constitution allows for home rule charter to replace/override state law re. municipal and county government as long as the charter doesn't violate the state Constitution.
The charter allows for commission to put a referendum to a vote.
The state Constitution doesn't say anything about liquor by the drink (except that drunks can't hold state office, if I recall).
State law prescribes how liquor by the drink referendums are submitted to voters according to state law that prescribes how municipal and county governments handle referendums, which is overriden by the home rule charter as permitted by the Constitution.
Sounds like an amendment to the TCA is needed to fix the circular references.
Submitted by Johnny Ringo on Tue, 2008/05/20 - 1:28pm.
The 21st Amendment, which the courts have said gives essentially plenary powers to the state for the regulation of intoxicating beverages (trumping even the Commerce Clause) may play a role here too. It may be that such powers, granted directly to the states, may only be delegated, if at all, by express acts of the state and not by implication.
But like I said, so far as I know it's not been addressed, so it's all guesswork until it is.
Submitted by ANGRYWOLF on Tue, 2008/05/20 - 3:32pm.
that just opens up the door for Tim Hutchison.
Do you really want Hutch as county Mayor ?
Of course Hutch will run anyway when the time comes but why hand him the job right now ?
There's also rumors that Tim Burchett might be interested in the job...as we have discussed..although those same rumors had Lumpy Lambert running for the state legistature..lol.....
I hope in a few months to be moving back to Nashville.That might be a safer pleace to be than Knoxville quite frankly.
Submitted by Mr. McBeavy on Tue, 2008/05/20 - 3:48pm.
Ragsdale is setting the table for the next county mayor to fall flat on his a$$. When the real numbers finally come due, the next mayor is faced with a tax increase being instituted on his watch.
I thought Rags was going to New York on all those junkets to help our bond rating?
The only thing he was helping was himself, then again that is his trademark.
Submitted by ANGRYWOLF on Tue, 2008/05/20 - 4:25pm.
Obviously one poster hates our current Mayor....
So that poster needs to get a grip.I might suggest Lakeshore....
Ragsdale has made a lot of mistakes but kicking him out of office prematurely might let in someone much worse.
Submitted by Ragsdale2010 (not verified) on Tue, 2008/05/20 - 10:55pm.
His unbridled arrogance has done nothing but alientate constituents since he took office. He vastly overstated the importance of the county mayor's job and vastly overstated his political capital built up in a campaign against nobody. I remember well him chattering with his minions about the governor's mansion and the possibility that he might be selected as the President for the University of Tennessee. Oh what pipe dreams those were.
His inability to call a wrong deed wrong demonstrated a moral failure of a public figure and his constant spin, duck, deflect, and attack have done nothing for this community other than to allow him to remain in office. He has no credibility in this community and even less in other communities which have much higher thresholds and expectations for public service.
From a financial standpoint, where does he go when he leaves office? His spending prowess and ability to live a lavish lifestyle on the public's nickle will not be tolerated by any employer, let alone how much bad karma, litigation distractions, does he bring to a new employer.
County Mayor is a dead end job, Shump and Kessel retired from there, Ragsdale may/may not be divorced by the time the next election cycle comes around and the civil litigation/employment litigation coming out of Suite 615 will take another 3 or 4 years to wrap up.
Sometimes a cancer diagnosis/treatment requires removal of the entire breast and in my opinion, Ragsdale is a malignant boob in our county government who should be removed at the first available opportunity.
The County Mayor seems essentially a non-entity for the rest of his term. If the alternative is an appointment by county commission to fill out the term that is not appealing, particularly considering their track record. I would not want congress appointing a president nor a president appointing congressional members. The same with governor and state legislature.
The appointment seems to defeat the check/balance functionality of those two entities.
Part of the problem, sadly, is that there are those on Commission who really don't care that Ragsdale has been a bad Mayor. They've been equally bad Commissoners. Their criticism of him is mostly about scoring political points - and people know it.
I agree with jbr. I'm certainly not happy with Ragsdale, but the alternatives for replacing him mid-term aren't palatable either. Let him finish his term and go into political oblivion. I just hope several Commissioners go with him.
Submitted by Anonymously Nine (not verified) on Wed, 2008/05/21 - 7:58pm.
Actually we have a life and don't obsess about Ragsdale on 15 different websites like you do.
That would be two websites actually. Here and the Sentinel.
I was wondering when the "we have a life and don't obsess about Ragsdale" excuse would rise to the top.
Our first progressive Mayor has been a disaster. It is little surprise the contempt for him is suppressed. Avert your eyes.
At best he is the biggest RINO impostor ever. He claims to be a Republican but acts a bit wilder than Bill Clinton. While not a Clinton fan the case could be made that Clinton was more conservative than Ragsdale. At least fiscally so.
Let's review, 87% increase in Knox County's debt under the first progressive Mayor. One quarter of the debt is INTEREST ONLY.
Bravo.
But we never had a property tax increase and he reads to children. So it's all good, right?
If Bill Haslam or Tim Burchett did this you guys would raise hell. But since you need to keep it on the down low, we understand.
Good news is I hear that Ragsdale will be on the next video of "Mayor's Gone Wild".
Don't worry, it is about Mayor's that bankrupt their budgets.
Submitted by rocketsquirrel on Wed, 2008/05/21 - 8:16pm.
oh don't even try to dissemble by calling him a progressive mayor. BS. He's a republican. one of your own. You own him. don't even try to dump him on us.
Submitted by Factchecker on Sun, 2008/05/25 - 7:37am.
A "Bush Republican" is a liberal.
Don't like a fellow Republican? Just call him a liberal Dem! Good enough for Fox Noise too. If Fox had existed during the '80s, would it have put a "D" next to Reagan's name when Iran Contra broke?
In your world, we can just pretend that if we raise enough hell in comments sections on the internets, we can fix all the county problems (or any others). Guess we just don't have your purity and focus. Heh.
Do any of you Republicans have any backbone, Nine?
In other action, a proposal to put liquor by the drink up for a vote was withdrawn because Law Director John Owings said County Commission isn't authorized to put it on the ballot. (Does anybody know why that is?) He said citizens would have to petition for a referendum.
TCA §57-3-106 seems to suggest that a referendum can only be placed on the ballot by citizen petition. Nothing in my quick reading of the statute seems to authorize the county legislative body to place such a referendum on the ballot:
(c) Elections provided for in subsections (a) and (b) shall be called and held as elections on questions by the county election commission at the next regular election of the county or municipality, as the case may be, upon receipt of a petition signed by residents of the county or municipality, as the case may be, to a number amounting to ten percent (10%) or more of the votes cast in the county or municipality, as the case may be, for governor of the state of Tennessee at the then last preceding gubernatorial election, requesting the holding of such election. Except that, no election under this chapter may be placed on the same ballot or conducted on the same day of a primary election. Such petition shall be addressed to the county election commission of such county, or county in which such municipality is located, and shall read, except for such address, substantially as follows:
“We, registered voters of _____________________________________ (here insert name of county or municipality, as the case may be), do hereby request the holding of a local option election to authorize retail package stores to sell alcoholic beverages as provided by law.”
Such petition may be in two (2) or more counterparts.
Liquor by the drink is provided for in TCA §57-4-103, which reads in part:
a) (1) The provisions of this chapter shall be effective in any jurisdiction which authorizes the sale of alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises in a referendum in the manner prescribed by § 57-3-106.
Interesting. A couple of things. Since Knox County operates under its own charter, I wonder if there's something in there about that? (Will have to go look). Also, why all the kerfluffle about Commission not putting the One Question referendums on the ballot? Was it because they had to do with amending the Charter?
Ah, just saw the second part of that. So state law trumps a home rule charter on liquor by the drink?
Well, it does so far. To the best of my knowledge, that question has not been litigated yet. Also afaik, there's nothing in the Charter regarding the sale or regulation of wine and hard liquors.
Is there anything in the Charter about Commission putting a referendum on the ballot? (Sorry, haven't looked yet.)
Yes there is (Charter §8.05), but whether it trumps the state laws on the regulation of alchohol is a question which has not been raised or ruled upon, to the best of my knowledge.
Interesting conundrum. This constituting and legislating stuff is hard work!
Tell me about it. :-)
whether it trumps the state laws on the regulation of alchohol
OK, let me see if I can follow along.
The Constitution allows for home rule charter to replace/override state law re. municipal and county government as long as the charter doesn't violate the state Constitution.
The charter allows for commission to put a referendum to a vote.
The state Constitution doesn't say anything about liquor by the drink (except that drunks can't hold state office, if I recall).
State law prescribes how liquor by the drink referendums are submitted to voters according to state law that prescribes how municipal and county governments handle referendums, which is overriden by the home rule charter as permitted by the Constitution.
Sounds like an amendment to the TCA is needed to fix the circular references.
The 21st Amendment, which the courts have said gives essentially plenary powers to the state for the regulation of intoxicating beverages (trumping even the Commerce Clause) may play a role here too. It may be that such powers, granted directly to the states, may only be delegated, if at all, by express acts of the state and not by implication.
But like I said, so far as I know it's not been addressed, so it's all guesswork until it is.
But like I said, so far as I know it's not been addressed, so it's all guesswork until it is.
When it comes to questions of the power of a charter, there is no need to guess which way the Knox County Law Director's office will opine.
Ragsdale, should he stay, or should he go?
Apologies to the Clash.
that just opens up the door for Tim Hutchison.
Do you really want Hutch as county Mayor ?
Of course Hutch will run anyway when the time comes but why hand him the job right now ?
There's also rumors that Tim Burchett might be interested in the job...as we have discussed..although those same rumors had Lumpy Lambert running for the state legistature..lol.....
I hope in a few months to be moving back to Nashville.That might be a safer pleace to be than Knoxville quite frankly.
Let Ragsdale finish his term.
Let Ragsdale finish his term.
Is that rational? You sound like you see both the Tim's under every rock.
Ragsdale has one quarter of the County debt as interest only. No principle.
County debt has gone up 87% under Ragsdale. Get a grip.
Ragsdale is setting the table for the next county mayor to fall flat on his a$$. When the real numbers finally come due, the next mayor is faced with a tax increase being instituted on his watch.
I thought Rags was going to New York on all those junkets to help our bond rating?
The only thing he was helping was himself, then again that is his trademark.
Obviously one poster hates our current Mayor....
So that poster needs to get a grip.I might suggest Lakeshore....
Ragsdale has made a lot of mistakes but kicking him out of office prematurely might let in someone much worse.
Worst Mayor ever. Anyone would be better.
Worst Mayor ever. Anyone would be better.
That's what I said about Nixon and the presidency. And the universe replied by giving us Dubya.
Most politicians, when publicly humiliated, just go away. Even Larry Craig will go away.
Mr. Ragsdale today at a ribbon cutting event said he has good days and bad days but every day is a good day when he comes East Knox County.
East Knox County is the area where he got the fewest votes for reelection -- along with Halls, Powell, Gibbs and a bunch of Fountain City.
Methinks the man should stay in Farragut. -- s.
His unbridled arrogance has done nothing but alientate constituents since he took office. He vastly overstated the importance of the county mayor's job and vastly overstated his political capital built up in a campaign against nobody. I remember well him chattering with his minions about the governor's mansion and the possibility that he might be selected as the President for the University of Tennessee. Oh what pipe dreams those were.
His inability to call a wrong deed wrong demonstrated a moral failure of a public figure and his constant spin, duck, deflect, and attack have done nothing for this community other than to allow him to remain in office. He has no credibility in this community and even less in other communities which have much higher thresholds and expectations for public service.
From a financial standpoint, where does he go when he leaves office? His spending prowess and ability to live a lavish lifestyle on the public's nickle will not be tolerated by any employer, let alone how much bad karma, litigation distractions, does he bring to a new employer.
County Mayor is a dead end job, Shump and Kessel retired from there, Ragsdale may/may not be divorced by the time the next election cycle comes around and the civil litigation/employment litigation coming out of Suite 615 will take another 3 or 4 years to wrap up.
Sometimes a cancer diagnosis/treatment requires removal of the entire breast and in my opinion, Ragsdale is a malignant boob in our county government who should be removed at the first available opportunity.
The County Mayor seems essentially a non-entity for the rest of his term. If the alternative is an appointment by county commission to fill out the term that is not appealing, particularly considering their track record. I would not want congress appointing a president nor a president appointing congressional members. The same with governor and state legislature.
The appointment seems to defeat the check/balance functionality of those two entities.
If a Republican Mayor had done the things Ragsdale has done KnoxViews would light up.
The silence says more than words can.
Ragsdale's not a Republican now? I'm confused.
Part of the problem, sadly, is that there are those on Commission who really don't care that Ragsdale has been a bad Mayor. They've been equally bad Commissoners. Their criticism of him is mostly about scoring political points - and people know it.
I agree with jbr. I'm certainly not happy with Ragsdale, but the alternatives for replacing him mid-term aren't palatable either. Let him finish his term and go into political oblivion. I just hope several Commissioners go with him.
Actually we have a life and don't obsess about Ragsdale on 15 different websites like you do.
Actually we have a life and don't obsess about Ragsdale on 15 different websites like you do.
That would be two websites actually. Here and the Sentinel.
I was wondering when the "we have a life and don't obsess about Ragsdale" excuse would rise to the top.
Our first progressive Mayor has been a disaster. It is little surprise the contempt for him is suppressed. Avert your eyes.
At best he is the biggest RINO impostor ever. He claims to be a Republican but acts a bit wilder than Bill Clinton. While not a Clinton fan the case could be made that Clinton was more conservative than Ragsdale. At least fiscally so.
Let's review, 87% increase in Knox County's debt under the first progressive Mayor. One quarter of the debt is INTEREST ONLY.
Bravo.
But we never had a property tax increase and he reads to children. So it's all good, right?
If Bill Haslam or Tim Burchett did this you guys would raise hell. But since you need to keep it on the down low, we understand.
Good news is I hear that Ragsdale will be on the next video of "Mayor's Gone Wild".
Don't worry, it is about Mayor's that bankrupt their budgets.
oh don't even try to dissemble by calling him a progressive mayor. BS. He's a republican. one of your own. You own him. don't even try to dump him on us.
Reportedly Ragsdale was a Democrat until he ran for Commission. Urban wives tale?
He spends money like a liberal.
I don't blame you for not accepting him. But if he was really a Republican people would be raising hell on KnoxViews. The silence gave it away.
What's an urban wife's tale?
spends money like a liberal
Shouldn't that be spending money like a "Bush Republican"?
Shouldn't that be spending money like a "Bush Republican"?
That will work. A "Bush Republican" is a liberal. Bush has run up the debt just like Ragsdale. Ragsdale is Mini-Me to Bush.
So he's also a "Reagan Republican" too? Cool, what's not to like! Does he have a firm handshake and does he look you straight in the eye?
True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler
Seems to me that Ragsdale is more like Bush 41 than Bush 43, while Tim Hutchison is more like 43.
Ragsdale and 41 specialized in resume enhancement and didn't care much what the average Joe thought so long as they kept the power elite happy.
Bush 43 and Hutchison will walk across the street to antagonize the power elite, while working hard to speak the language of the average Joe.
It's a mind set. And Hutchison is the only one of the four that would qualify as a fiscal conservative. -- s.
Absolutely
Don't like a fellow Republican? Just call him a liberal Dem! Good enough for Fox Noise too. If Fox had existed during the '80s, would it have put a "D" next to Reagan's name when Iran Contra broke?
In your world, we can just pretend that if we raise enough hell in comments sections on the internets, we can fix all the county problems (or any others). Guess we just don't have your purity and focus. Heh.
Do any of you Republicans have any backbone, Nine?
And did any of you learn grammar?
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