Is the Obama delegate lead accurate?

Submitted by adanovi on Sun, 2008/03/09 - 10:53pm.

I want to thank the people who responded to me directly via my email burst last week. I know some of you are reading here as well. IF you would like to post this information in other places please just contact me first. More than likely, I will let you do it.

I'm in the process of writing a series of blogs on the superdelegates that everyone is talking about. However, while I do that, I want to give you something else to think about. It's this delegate lead that Obama has. Do you think that the elected delegates exactly represent the proportion of the vote that voted for each candidate? Do you think, for example, that if your district has 4 delegates that each one of them represents 25% of the vote? Well guess what, it doesn't work that way either. I came to this conclusion when I was analyzing my own district, the second congressional district in Tennessee. We voted greater than 50% for Hillary and somewhat less than 50% for Obama. However, we split the elected voting delegates at two each. This is the problem because each vote is represented by a single person. So, you can't split an individual delegate vote to accurately represent the popular vote. Why should Obama be represented with 50% of the vote when he clearly didn't have 50% of the vote in the second congressional district of Tennessee?

This exact situation was explained on the national blog, My Direct Democracy, better than I can explain it here. So, in the interest of avoiding plagiarism, I'm going to refer to this website called

"Candidates to split delegates (+ case study of TN)"


You all need to seriously question the "lead" that Obama is bragging about. He doesn't have as big of a lead as you might think and his lead is actually an overcompensation because the small delegate numbers within the individual congressional districts cannot be divided accurately to represent the vote.

For all you Edwards supporters out there who may have voted Edwards in the Tennessee primary, you would be interested in this as well.

So, please check out this website. If I recieve permission to copy the article here I will do it.


SteveMule's picture
Whatever

Whatever the Obama delegate count is he got it by playing by the rules. SO ... yes, maybe the rules do need to change - next cycle. Rightnow, by the rules he leads, tho, as you point out not by that much.
Besides, if the vote counts per district were rounded off correctly the advantage of getting a 'round up' is offset by the disadvantage of getting a 'round down' (a basic 'law', if you will, of statistics) so your analysis would have to examine each district's vote and vote breakdown - I'll leave that for someone else. For the moment I don't see it as a real big problem, except for a talking points memo.

Take Care, Be Good and don't play in the street!

SteveMule

adanovi's picture
My whole point is that Obama

My whole point is that Obama likes to use his "lead" as direct evidence of his huge lead across the country. It's just an artifical "lead." Especially as evidenced by the description from the blog I cited above.

Do the math

Obama's lead is "real" precisely because of the math explained on that MyDD blog post. He's winning some precincts by a wide margin, and he's not getting blown out of very many.

Odd vs. even

Also, don't forget that the 50-50 splits in districts with an even number of delegates, tend to be offset by the 3-2 and 2-1 splits in districts with an odd number of delegates. So in one district going 54-46 can get you the same number of delegates as your opponent, while in the next district over winning 51-49 gets you two delegates versus one. Which is more fair? Less fair?

bobaubin's picture
Say what you want about the

Say what you want about the delegate lead Hillary will not be able to overcome it in pledged delegates. Also lets look at the popular vote:

13,025,003 49.4% Obama
12,421,316 47.1% Clinton

+603,687 +2.3% for Barack Obama

If the super delegates decided to override the pledged delegates there would be a lot of people talking about a stolen nomination, and I'd be one of them. I seriously doubt that will happen anyway, most of the Supes' are elected officals and they are not going to want the controversy involved in stealing the nomination from the people.

~ Bob Aubin
------------------
"When we've been told we're not ready or that we shouldn't try or that we can't, generations of Americans have responded with a simple creed that sums up the spirit of a people: Yes, we can." ~ Barack Obama

adanovi's picture
Just exactly what does

Just exactly what does "voting for the winner of the popular vote" mean? Vote for the winner of the U.S. vote?
Vote for the winner of a Representative's congressional District?
Vote for the winner by state?

You proved my point that this "vote for the winner of the popular vote" doesn't just mean voting for the U.S. Winner when you said that all of these people are elected and don't want to be involved with stealing nominations.

Dear Hillary fans...

Dear Hillary,

Actually that post from MyDD

Actually that post from MyDD and your comments say the opposite.

Obama leads in:
- Pledged delegates
- Superdelegates
- Popular vote
- States won
- Congressional districts won

He's proven that his message and his campaign is more effective than Clinton's. All she's shown is that she can win the states where she dedicates significant time and money.

win the states where she

win the states where she dedicates significant time and money.

I thought for sure the Obama campaign spent a lot more money "trying" to win Texas and Ohio.

He actually won TX. CNN is

He actually won TX.

CNN is now projecting that Obama won the Texas caucus by nine delegates, and has triumphed in the state-wide, two-step delegate battle by 5, 99-94.

Link...

Link...

Not a fan of caucuses, but I

Not a fan of caucuses, but I guess Obama is. Guess since he won the Texas caucus, he won the Texas delegate battle. Either way, he had to spend a lot more money than Clinton in Texas to get this "win".

Really?

Either way, he had to spend a lot more money than Clinton in Texas to get this "win".

You say this like it's an established fact. While it may well be true, I don't think we've seen any actual hard data to support this.

Given that it was her proverbial last stand, due to the status of the race before hand, it seems likely that Clinton threw every dollar she could scrape up (which was a lot of dollars, mind, she had a great fundraising month in February) into the race in these two states, but we don't even know that. Nor do we know how much of his campaign stash Obama spent. And we may never know, since neither candidate is subject to the state-by-state limits imposed by taking public funds, so they don't have to report expenditures by state.

adanovi's picture
Observations on MS from Memphis

Well it's easy to win primaries when 70% of the people who are voting in the election will vote for you based on skin color.

I really don't think a state like MS shows this amazing groundswell of progressive ideology as much as it shows how when you have 70% of the electorate as African American, that they'll vote over 90+ percent for the African American candidate. As has happened before in both South Carolina and Mississippi.

God knows I have no idea

God knows I have no idea what it's like to be an African-American, but I think they're voting for Obama in such big #s only partially because of skin color.

His popularity among black voters is because he's an excellent, credible candidate who also has black skin. For African-Americans, what the heck's not to like? (And for many other Americans as well, obviously.)

Andy Axel's picture
Well it's easy to win

Well it's easy to win primaries when 70% of the people who are voting in the election will vote for you based on skin color

Yep - and general elections ain't decided by caucus.

____________________________

With the possible exception of things like box scores, race results, and stock market tabulations, there is no such thing as Objective Journalism. The phrase itself is a pompous contradiction in terms.

ya but

delegates are & you cant get to the general without the nomination.

we will see what unfolds but NOT organizing caucus states as well as obama

has hurt clinton in the delegate race.

we are ahead what 100-125 delegates

Mississippi & Memphis 40 years ago

In Mississippi

George Wallace's racist campaign got 63.5% of the presidential vote

In Memphis

Dr King was shot dead

I call it a hell of lota progress

When a black man wins a presidential primary

In Mississippi with 61% of the vote & in Memphis with 70%.

Explain Idaho then

I really don't think a state like MS shows this amazing groundswell of progressive ideology as much as it shows how when you have 70% of the electorate as African American, that they'll vote over 90+ percent for the African American candidate. As has happened before in both South Carolina and Mississippi.

Ok. So explain Idaho.

Either way, he had to spend a lot more money than Clinton in Texas to get this "win".

The point was that most of Clinton's wins came in states where she spent significant time and money. When she mostly ignores a state, she loses pretty badly. I bet she wins pretty big in PA. We'll see where she puts her resources after that.

The point was that most of

The point was that most of Clinton's wins came in states where she spent significant time and money.

Clinton won the "popular vote" in Texas while spending quite a bit less money than Obama.

Again I ask

Clinton won the "popular vote" in Texas while spending quite a bit less money than Obama.

And again I ask, how do you know that?

Possibly true, but also possibly not. Just because Obama has more money, doesn't mean he spent more of it in a given place.

Obama had campaigned hoping

Obama had campaigned hoping to land a knockout blow. As of March 1, his campaign had spent about $9 million on television advertising in Texas and about $4.5 million in Ohio; Clinton had spent about $5 million in Texas and about $2.3 million in Ohio, according to TNS Media Intelligence/CMAG, an ad tracking firm

.

Thanks

That's what I wanted to know. Just goes to show that money doesn't buy elections.

vote

None of the above stuff about how delegates are divided up makes sense to me and I'd rather leave it to the experts than spend time on it. What concerns me right now is this possible mail -in vote in Fla. Anything odd like that in Fla. seems like a bad idea. Whoever ever wins the Dem. nomination needs to look like it was as fair as possible. Hillary has Ferraro saying crazy things. Now tapes of Obama's minister saying "God damn America" has surfaced. Either is fodder for a McCain add. By this and the Miss. votes it has gotten crazy polarizing.

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