Mon
Dec 10 2007
06:40 pm

Who would you trust more to be president?

This guy: "This brings me to my second point. Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values. It requires that their proposals be subject to argument, and amenable to reason. I may be opposed to abortion for religious reasons, but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God's will. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all...

...So we all have some work to do here. But I am hopeful that we can bridge the gaps that exist and overcome the prejudices each of us bring to this debate. And I have faith that millions of believing Americans want that to happen. No matter how religious they may or may not be, people are tired of seeing faith used as a tool to attack and belittle and divide - they're tired of hearing folks deliver more screed than sermon. Because in the end, that's not how they think about faith in their own lives."

or this guy: "There are some who may feel that religion is not a matter to be seriously considered in the context of the weighty threats that face us. If so, they are at odds with the nation's founders, for they, when our nation faced its greatest peril, sought the blessings of the Creator. And further, they discovered the essential connection between the survival of a free land and the protection of religious freedom. In John Adams' words: 'We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our constitution was made for a moral and religious people.'

"Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone."

R. Neal's picture

Didn't sit through the 40

Didn't sit through the 40 min. video of Obama. I guess that was his quote from somewhere in there? It's a pretty good quote.

Anyway, yes, there is a clear contrast between faith and religion. One's got nothing to do with the other. I think that's pretty much spelled out in the Constitution.

Sad that the GOP keeps trying to make it an issue, so Romney has to defend his faith to be a GOP contender and Obama has to explain the Constitution from a church pulpit of all places (I guess that's where it was?).

The most interesting thing in all of this was who introduced Romney, not what he said. That's the real story.

All of these candidates just need to say "my faith is my business, and so is yours. Government's got no business in my faith or yours, and neither your faith nor my faith has any business in government."

If candidates want to pander to whatever groups outside that, then fine, whatever.

Rachel's picture

"my faith is my business,

"my faith is my business, and so is yours. Government's got no business in my faith or yours, and neither your faith nor my faith has any business in government."

If you'll pardon the expression, amen.

"The difficulty lies not so much in developing new ideas as in escaping from old ones." - John Maynard Keynes

longpauses's picture

I've been sharing that Obama

I've been sharing that Obama clip with friends for several months now. It really is a fantastic speech -- one of the few I've heard in my lifetime (I'm 35) that I would call "inspiring."

What I find so interesting about the races this cycle is that the only Republican who can speak with that "authentic" evangelical voice that propelled Dubya to the Republican nomination in 2000 is Huckabee, which is probably why he's enjoying such a surge right now. That he's also a bit, um, extreme in some of his views will eventually get him in trouble, I think -- at least if he makes it to the general election.

But, speaking as a lifelong occupant of the evangelical world, I can tell you that Obama's got that voice, too, and I'm tempted to believe it's genuine. Any intellectually honest Christian voter would have to give Obama serious consideration. But intellectual honesty is a tricky matter when it comes time to vote. I'm of the opinion that, when they step into the voting booth, many, many evangelicals are Republicans first and Christians second.

Long Pauses

Andy Axel's picture

*Sigh.* This is where that

*Sigh.*

This is where that "values voter" b.s. lands us; each party trying to out-Rove the other.

Has anyone ever come up with a fictional politician-cum-superhero whose superpower is that he can spout pleasing political rhetoric to any particular narrow interest?

"This looks like a job for... THE PANDERER!"

____________________________

With the possible exception of things like box scores, race results, and stock market tabulations, there is no such thing as Objective Journalism. The phrase itself is a pompous contradiction in terms.

rocketsquirrel's picture

sigh.

quit sighing and read the speech if you can't spare the 40 minutes to watch it. In it, he speaks to the entire nation, to secularists AND people of faith. And the message is one that both sides need to hear--the evangelicals who want to blur religion and politics, as well as secularists who freak out every time they hear the word "Christian."

Bird_dog's picture

On the Local Front...

Did you hear the news that Lumpy wants CC to pass a resolution acknowledging that God was the founder of this country??? what is that about??? Except to distract the public from the "ungodly" actions of CC and Knox county Govt...

Rachel's picture

Actually, it's worse than

Actually, it's worse than that:

Consideration of a Resolution of the Commission of Knox County, Tennessee urging all American citizens to proclaim to every level of government its responsibility to publicly recognize God as the foundation of our National Heritage. (Commissioner I. Harmon and Lambert)

Commission should leave religion alone. Period.

"The difficulty lies not so much in developing new ideas as in escaping from old ones." - John Maynard Keynes

rocketsquirrel's picture

thread hijack. you people

thread hijack. you people are hopeless. it's an amazing speech that illustrates the needed balance between secularists and people of faith by a true progressive who gets it. How Lumpy entered this is irrelevant.

Bird_dog's picture

sorry

i got carried away. my apologies.

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