Tue
Feb 20 2007
09:50 am
You can watch on Knox County Community Television on Comcast Cable Channel 12 and Charter Cable Channel 6. YouTube Nine coverage later.
This meeting will discuss a special election to replace County Commissioners, the vote on Mayor Ragsdale's appointments to the ethics committee, and as quoted in the News Sentinel, "will consider Commission Chairman Scott Moore's request that commission give a public airing to Sheriff's Office employees who investigated allegations of dirty political tricks performed by former Ragsdale aide Tyler Harber."
Topics:
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Discussing:
- Dickey Betts has gone to meet his brothers (1 reply)
- Boeing was once known for safety and engineering (7 replies)
- Nearly 40 families being evicted in Maryville, new ownership (3 replies)
- Cost of car ownership on the rise, becoming unsustainable for some drivers (5 replies)
- Beware bad tax advice on the Internet (3 replies)
- Opoid treament across the bridge in SoKno (4 replies)
- Is tap water safe to drink? CDC report highlights deadly waterborne infections (4 replies)
- TN Republicans pushing to allow open carry of assault rifles despite pushback (2 replies)
- As some countries spurn cars, the U.S. continues to embrace highways (1 reply)
- Private equity ownership of hospitals made care riskier for patients, a new study finds (20 replies)
- USPS Knoxville facility (1 reply)
- Springtime is here and Dogwoods are blossoming (2 replies)
TN Progressive
- EPA Blisters TVA Plans For Replacing Kingston Coal Plant With Gas (RoaneViews)
- Friday Toons (RoaneViews)
- Toon (RoaneViews)
- Glad to see a substantial candidate running against Chuck fLIEschman (RoaneViews)
- It's voting time again. Let's get out the vote. (BlountViews)
- Winter at the Big Rocks (Whitescreek Journal)
- Maryville Daily Times Home Delivery changing again (BlountViews)
- Amazon facility in Rockford finally opens (BlountViews)
- Share your ideas for the Blount County Comprehensive Plan 2023 (BlountViews)
- Secrets from My Radio Days (Joe Powell)
- Fall 2022 (Whitescreek Journal)
- Mmmm, A Fresh Hot Cup of Joe (Joe Powell)
TN Politics
- Tennessee Legislature can aid state’s obesity problem (TN Lookout)
- Senate rejects two impeachment articles against DHS Secretary Mayorkas (TN Lookout)
- Senate education chair: Voucher agreement needed by week’s end for passage (TN Lookout)
- John Cole’s Tennessee: Reading, writing, ‘rithmetic and reloading (TN Lookout)
- Budget clears House, Senate panels, but voucher bill on hold (TN Lookout)
- Republican lawmakers make vocal push against Chattanooga VW plant union effort (TN Lookout)
Knox TN Today
- Drumming up some happy (Knox TN Today)
- The Tindells take Knox the Fox to Colorado (Knox TN Today)
- Great Smokies Welcome Center opens in Townsend (Knox TN Today)
- Tips from a master gardener (Knox TN Today)
- Private gardens open to the public this weekend (Knox TN Today)
- Farragut Rotary, SHP build beds for 51 kids (Knox TN Today)
- Could microforests help us reclaim neglected spaces? (Knox TN Today)
- Parlor Doughnuts to open Saturday on Magnolia (Knox TN Today)
- Blount baker creates bouquet cupcakes (Knox TN Today)
- Service today for retired professor (Knox TN Today)
- Don DeVoe at 82 – plus bits ‘n pieces (Knox TN Today)
- Reeder Chevrolet property sells for $15.25 million (Knox TN Today)
Local TV News
- Mayor pushes back on TDOT project plans to widen Louisville Road (WATE)
- Cumberland Gap Volunteer Fire Department raising funds for fire truck (WATE)
- Father finds purpose in organ donation after death of son (WATE)
- Sevierville attraction under investigation by TN Department of Agriculture (WATE)
- Knoxville hosts community meeting as pedestrian bridge project progresses (WATE)
- Dirty food slicer found during West Knoxville restaurant inspection (WATE)
- Knoxville man must serve 26 years in prison for child sex crimes (WBIR)
- Downtown Knoxville festival featuring cuisine and performances returns on April 20 (WBIR)
- 'I want to go to college': Renounce Denounce graduates first class from its gang intervention program (WBIR)
- Service & Sacrifice: H-bomb Eyewitness (WBIR)
- Lenoir City man uses personal tragedy to help others (WBIR)
- Looking back: Blount County man one of several East Tennesseans on death row (WBIR)
News Sentinel
State News
- Bradley Central stars highlight area’s all-state girls’ basketball picks - Chattanooga Times Free Press (Times Free Press)
- List of Tennessee state books inked, including the Bible - Chattanooga Times Free Press (Times Free Press)
- Chattanooga man found guilty of murder of 20-year-old UTC student, receives second life sentence - Chattanooga Times Free Press (Times Free Press)
- Sean O’Brien named UTC Police Chief - Chattanooga Times Free Press (Times Free Press)
Wire Reports
- Stocks sink, oil jumps after Israeli attack on Iran - Reuters (Business)
- Trump criminal case: Full 12-person jury seated in Manhattan - BBC.com (US News)
- Netflix: Profits soar after password sharing crackdown - BBC.com (Business)
- Maryland high school student arrested after authorities discovered a 129-page document detailing school shooting plan, police say - CNN (US News)
- Dozens of pro-Palestinian protesters arrested as Columbia clears encampment - Al Jazeera English (US News)
- Arm and torso believed to be those of slain Milwaukee teen found along Lake Michigan - NBC News (US News)
- San Francisco sues Oakland over plans to rename airport - The Hill (Business)
- ‘Legitimizes Ethereum like never before:’ All about the new Stablecoin Act - AMBCrypto News (Business)
- US rate setter tells BBC 'no hurry' to cut interest rates - BBC.com (Business)
- RFK Jr. siblings endorse Biden as their brother pursues independent bid against president - CBS News (US News)
- TikTok gets closer to U.S. ban as Mike Johnson pushes with foreign aid - Axios (US News)
- Trump Media shares surge after a miserable run. Pros say stay away - NPR (Business)
- Multistate 911 outage shows fragility of systems, experts say - NBC News (US News)
- US stops UN from recognizing a Palestinian state through membership - Reuters (US News)
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must see TV
Bud Gilbert is really tap dancing for Mayor Ragsdale. Amazing.
No Public Outcry
Scott "Scoobie" Moore just said there has been no public outcry on this. He's only gotten one phone call, then announced his home phone number on public television. 922-9049.
Vote is in...
Special election vote fails 8-10, one pass.
Voting for special election Hammond, Harmon, Cawood, Cate, Norman, Ballard, and two others I could not hear.
During the Break
I believe the two other votes were Smith and Bolus. The ethics committee matter has been delayed until the meeting on the 26th; the Harber matter also is on the agenda for the 26th.
Mark Harmon
I doubt people would
I doubt people would complain to Moore. Basically he is a focus of the complaints. As for the special election vote, it doesnt surprise me. Seems
what most people probably expected.
He's delusional if he truly
He's delusional if he truly thinks that...quite obstinate to insist otherwise; that is there is no outcry.
Interesting update on Knoxnews about Lumpy calling Ragsdale a child. Awful display of ugly government this morning, and while I listened to 1180 on January 31st...today's misery was talked over(as usual) by HHH on 990.
I wish the NS would itemize
I wish the NS would itemize the votes instead of just saying "The commission voted 10-8-1." That is very relevant to me, and educates voters thru the year so they are more prepared to make knowledgble decisions at election time. The same thing with MPC, etc. votes.
Oh brother,
Victor Jernigan is addressing County Commission about storm-water. I can't believe he is on the storm-water advisory committee.
Talk about the fox in the hen-house.
This is the greatest failure of the Ragsdale era. I have doubts this County can deal with the storm-water issue.
Delete
Delete
The CC meeting right now
If you drifted away from the called CC meeting, Owings is presently discussing the N-S suit and offering his recommendations...
Endless lawsuits
All of this talk about a re-do is stunning. Re-do is not mentioned in either the Charter or the Constitution. McElroy is no champion of justice, just a tool in a political machine. His lawsuit looks noble but is it?
A short list of why this bullshit is happening:
If the eight County Commissioners had stepped down when the Supreme Court ruled on term limits we would not be here
If the five County Commissioners had not sued to invalidate the Charter we would not be here
If Herb Moncier would go on vacation just once we would not be here
If Chancellor Weaver had not over reached with his ruling we would not be here
If the Supreme Court had ruled earlier we would not be here
If Scott Moore had allowed the prospective appointees to address the County Commission we would not be here
If the County Commissioner had taken more time to debate the appointments we would not be here
If Jack McElroy would just print the news and not insert himself into this mess we would not be here
If the voters had not voted for the term limited Commissioners we would not be here
Let's face it. We got what we deserved. Everyone is culpable in this mess and there are no heroes.
Help me out here, what is the big deal whether the election is in September 2007 or February 2008? This is about power, Ragsdale lost it and it appears he will do anything to get it back. Even if it interferes with the running of Knox County Government.
It wasn't fair at any level or at any time.
When do we grow up and move on? Life isn't fair.
When do these people get to work on the budget? Or should we just run the County Government by "continuing resolution"?
Additions to your list
Here are a couple to add to the beginning of your list #Nine:
If the Knox County Election Commision had not allowed term limited candidates on the ballot...
If term limited office holders had obeyed the law and not tried to run again for offices they were not legally allowed to run for
Oh,
If the Knox County Election Commision had not allowed term limited candidates on the ballot...
If term limited office holders had obeyed the law and not tried to run again for offices they were not legally allowed to run for
SNAP.
County Commission votes not to settle with the New Sentinel
Just in from the Intergovernmental Committee, the vote is 5-4 to not put the News Sentinel offer to settle the Sunshine Law lawsuit on the Monday 26th meeting agenda.
YouTube video forthcoming...later tonight...
They cut away...
...right in the middle of Frank Leuthold's question to Owings WRT his ability, as an appointee whose appointment is being challenged by the N-S, to then vote on any recommendation Owings might make to Commission to settle the suit.
Wasn't this same conundrum addressed in the Bailey decision? In that context, the court held that those Shelby County Commissioners re-elected beyond the timeframe the county's term limits policy allowed them to serve could nevertheless take action for the purpose of replacing themselves, as they served in a "de facto" position (and our Commissioners acted similarly here in KC, of course).
Provided that the new Ethics Policy wouldn't preclude Leuthold's/other appointees' ability to cast their votes, isn't there precedent for the eight appointees' ability to vote on Owing's recommendations?
I just commented on that in the other post
Mea Culpa Mulligan
Submitted by mpower1952 on Tue, 2007/02/20 - 2:29pm.
Great name, BY. And great idea also.
However, how do we let the people that we think were appointed illegally vote to have another vote?
I don't mean that sarcastically. It really seems to be an unsolvable problem.
I bow to wiser commenters. Thanks Tamara for being so up on this conundrum.
Don't get me wrong--I'm
Don't get me wrong--I'm asking the same question you are! Not sure...
The News Sentinel coverage
The News Sentinel coverage is, once again, pitiful. As usual over the past few weeks, the focus is on Lumpy Lambert, specifically his "Candyland" exchange with Mayor Ragsdale. Little in-depth discussion is given to the presentation by the Mayor's attorney or the serious issues raised by Commissioners.
May a special election be had a few months earlier? Maybe. But, there is the constitutional question, with a list of questions having been sent to the attorney general. The county charter doesn't allow it. We need a state law passed to trump our county law. And, even if we jump through all those hurdles, we still have the issues of timing for partisan elections and a cost of $250,000 - $500,00, all to have an election at a critical time in our county (budget) and only to have the election a few months earlier.
The KNS story is not informative. It's weak, considering all the issues. Lumpy and Candyland, yep that was the most important exchange.
I will reiterate my position from weeks ago. People may disagree with the appointments. They may disagree with how it was done. But, the lawsuits and constant stirring of political turmoil does not help the citizens of Knox County. I hope the News Sentinel's "new-found" interest in county government, including what goes on at Commission meetings, continues. We need to have elections next year, throw the rascals out if you like and move on.
I could live with a new round of appointments
Personally, Chad, I could skip the special election and live with a new round of appointments. I respect the Charter's instruction that Commissioners have this right, I just feel that in their process they failed to exercise their cooresponding responsibility to inform us fully about the field of interested candidates and to poll us about our inclinations.
If a "do-over" of the appointment process were conducted in the manner the Commissioners promised and the public expected, I'm good. Public forums in every district and some manner of "straw-polling" would seem to be a given.
I do think, though, that the public's point here should not be relinquished. Doing so would be like accepting a new job at half one's former pay rate--that employee would be negotiating forever more from a position of extreme disadvantage.
...and Owings could live with a "do-over," too
I might have added to these above comments that our county law director also thinks a "do-over" is palatable, even in his very first public discussion of the N-S suit with Commissioners.
Owings' quote in today's N-S is that the botched appointment process "may be the most important legal matter in the history of this commission." Yesterday, he offered Commissioners five reasons to settle out of court--and again, these were his very first public comments on the issue!
I think it's very compelling that Owings has taken this position so early in his counsel to Commissioners. Because he's done so, I would also expect that, in the weeks and months ahead, he will counsel them again and again to settle. He is giving every indication that he sees Commission's defense as an uphill battle for the law department.
By implication, he is also giving every indication that voters should not have to wait for a February 2008 election and that this "do-over" that would result from accepting the settlement is, in his opinion, an acceptable outcome.
cbt
You've got good ideas & I'm just askin a few things.We all knew the court was going to make a ruling & we've known it since June.However,nobody knew what the ruling would be. Those advocating a special election have been grabbing at straws & would have presented a better case if they had been working on special election contingency plans,last year.I know the members of the Election Commission did not know if the court or the State Legeslature would require a special election,so,to be prepared for any outcome,they drew up a contingency plan to hold a special election.With respect to the N-S offer,it may not be a bad idea for County Commission to take it.If something doesn't give Commissioners aren't going to be able to see the "budget forest" for the "term limit trees".Plus we get the foresite of hindsite.OK,take the deal & we go back to the commission of 9am Jan 31.Should those advocating a special election be willing to take a deal that THOSE COMMISSIONERS would be seated until a special election held Sept/Nov?
"Should those advocating a
"Should those advocating a special election be willing to take a deal that THOSE COMMISSIONERS would be seated until a special election held Sept/Oct?"
I think it's better than the alternative. Plus, with the Sentinel's "new found interest" (I will continue to repeat these cute buzz words as some local politicians are want to do) in county government I dare say that nothing that any of these 19 will go unreported. Unprecedented scrutiny. And, I mean, unprecedented.
Insert "do" after 19.
Insert "do" after 19.
Take the deal II
Special election out because it becomes clear that the courts have ruled(Tn Constitution Art.VII sec.4)"next occurring election" is the next county election.I still take the N-S deal.If the commissioners don't take the offer;the N-S gonna be on them,for a long time, like "stink on a backroom deal" & the ,day in day out pounding,is going to beat em to death.Nothing will get done.Take the deal & ask the N-S to hold public debates;after all, this is about public input & I don't see why the N-S couldn't help out.
A consensus among two! It's a start!
Hooray! It's you and me, Bill. Let's call an organizational meeting? I like your idea of the N-S helping with public debates, too (although I'd think, given a bit of advance notice, the League of Women Voters would assist, as well).
R U Democrat or Republican?
Don't care,just tactical question.The first real step is going to be in the '08 Feb 12 County primary.Presidential Primary,same day.You can not vote in one Party primary for president & another for county offices.My advice would be;pick a party,go to the election commission & get a list of that Party's voters in the '06 COUNTY PARTY PRIMARY...in YOUR WARD(not free).Write em a letter & tell em how you feel,tell em to call you & those that don't;you call them.Last Day to register to vote:Jan.13;Early vote starts;Jan 23.
R U asking me, Bill?
If so, I'm a Democrat.
My comments on this thread, though, have been to encourage organizing, possibly with input from the N-S, a non-partisan citizen group that would align with Owings to ask Commission's settlement of the N-S suit--and more specifically, to ask for a new round of more participatory appointments, including public debate and a "straw poll" of some sort.
The February 2008 election is important, of course, but, personally, I feel that citizens should not retreat from this position that the botched appointment process should be remedied as quickly as law might allow. I also feel that if we do retreat, we'll never regain that ground.
I'd be interested in hearing what others think of this approach, which I think could bring about a more immediate, legal remedy to replace unwanted appointees. As a bonus, it might also produce a group of like-minded folks interested in working together again in February 2008.
Are there others who would like to meet as a group for this purpose? We may e-mail one another privately from the user list...
Just to clarify, the Feb. 08
Just to clarify, the Feb. 08 election is a primary, right? Even if someone runs unopposed they still don't take office until the official Aug. election, right?
Since the Commission race is
Since the Commission race is a partisan race, candidates would run in a primary in Februrary 2008, a general in August 2008, and be sworn in on September 1, 2008.
The thing is R.
Your somebody out there,thats run a write-in,turned in your application or you,just, wanna do whats right & up & run for the Democratic nomination for county commission.But,you think,Feb is a long way away,the City races,I'll get goin toward the end of the year.I won the nomination,in '06.I'll be fine.But folks,those 2-3-400 votes you got ain't much when you consider 3 or 4 times as many people are voting in the '08 Primary.AND THEN it happens;Dec 4th;a candidate with big bucks gets in;floods the district mailboxes:"I'm the GOOD GOVERNMENT CANDIDATE you've been waiting on"Dont let that happen.START NOW By the way I've also got a plan for the August General that starts Feb,13,2008.
Tamara,I wasn't
but good to know.Many agree with you.But if a re-do means an undo;it may not work that way.The re-do only makes the suit go away.My thoughts have been more about:How does a candidate get their mind around the '08 Democratic County Primary.How do you deal with a 25,000 vote primary;when its always been 7,000?.What if it snows?
That's a ways off, yet...
...specifically, 1 year until the primary and 1 1/2 years until the general. Guess I'm thinking more of a two-pronged approach, namely a short-term plan (appointment "do-over") and a long-term plan (2008 elections). Why not both?
(Gone for an hour now.)
$500,000.00 is cheap
$500,000.00 for an early election seems cheap to me, if it means setting an example that the people of Knox County won't stand for a commission made up of little dictators. Not doing anything seems to say: "thank you, sir, may i please have another?"
Who cares if it means the election will be "only" a couple of months earlier? Good!
Progressive forces should make some kind of move while the iron is hot and this is on peoples' minds! Just talking to a few random non-activist non-"political" coworkers this morning, there is no better time to starting building a coalition/movement to take back our government. People are angry, not in the future -- angry right now. Waiting until the next "official" election is tantamount to letting the enemy (i.e., the pathetic napoleons who warm the seats next to Mark Harmon) define the terrain of struggle.
I know very little about the legal issues associated with local governance, but I say it's time to throw things off balance a little.
BUMS. OUT. NOW.
Unite
Again, if Chad is right that Commissioners are now under scrutiny like never before, and if Canoe is right that immediacy outweighs all other factors WRT picking the right "fix" for botched appointments, why not rally everyone behind Owings in his counsel to Commissioners to settle the N-S suit and to commit to a new round of transparent, participatory appointments?
Seems we'd be most effective if we united behind a single remedy...
Public comments
Keep in mind that anyone can get on the agenda for next Mondays County Commission meeting by calling or emailing the Commission office and indicating that you want to speak during the public comment time.
Just think what you could say to these commissioners and the TV cameras!