It is being reported City of Knoxville and University of Tennessee officials are discussing "the possibility of locating a new performance venue for UT’s Clarence Brown Theatre Company on the iconic site of the 1982 fair." As is many times the case for UT, the Clarence Brown theater building is in need of repairs. The new UT student center under development is also introducing accessibility and parking problems. They didn't think of these issues when planning the new UT student center?
The City of Knoxville's downtown is seriously lacking in park space (green space, water features, open space, a piece of ground in or near a city or town kept for ornament and recreation).
Who knows what is being considered for this project. Whatever it may be, it should not be to eliminate any open space at the World's Fair Park site.
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Not according to the article. YMMV.
(in reply to metulj)
"UT officials previously said there are no plans to tear down the Clarence Brown Theatre, although a planned renovation is still about eight years away. Likewise, Lyons said any new project would not threaten the Tennessee Amphitheater at the park."
Well said
There may be issues at Clarence Brown, but parking is not one. Patrons park free in the garage at Humanities Tower and walk across the plaza to CBT. -- s.
I agree with Sandra on that
(in reply to sclark426)
I agree with Sandra on that one. Unless they plan to tear down the Humanities and Social Sciences complex, parking isn't an issue.
I don't think have an indoor performing venue on the WFP is a terrible idea, tho, as long as both the ampitheater and CBT are not torn down.
At this point keeping the WFP
At this point keeping the WFP green space is preferable to me.
I was in Savannah for the first time a few weeks ago. The regular spacing of green parks in the historical district is outstanding.
Here my first move might be to regularly schedule things in the parks throughout Knoxville, and Knox County. Rotate something to each park. Starting in spring, almost on a weekly basis.
They do not have to be huge or elaborate or hours long events. Music performances using school (college and high school) performers and local artists, plays, older movies, a couple of Seinfeld, Andy Griffith, The Honeymooners, etc. episodes, . If you think it will have a small crowd, put in a small park. Match the event to the parks size as best you can initially. Monitor it closely for the first year to see what logistical tweaking needs to be done.
Use all the parks that have enough space for say 50 people or more. Once the event is full stop allowing entry the first year and use that information to move that event to a larger venue in the future.
Use all parks in the area and include WFP in that rotation.
Maybe the library or some
(in reply to jbr)
Maybe the library or some other entity could let folks vote via web and/or some other method on the movies or TV shows they want to see. Seems like they may have already done that before but I do not recall clearly.
Questions?
A couple of things and some questions:
1) Everyone seems to like the idea of the amphitheater in WFP, but it is grossly underutilized, even in the temperate months. Is anyone pushing this venue or does it need to be re-thought?
2) Is the old convention and exhibition space (under and behind the Holiday Inn) currently in use? If so, by whom?
3) To look at it, Henley Street looks like any other urban divided street. Yet, it has become an impermeable barrier between Downtown and WFP and UT. I'm not sure I've ever seen another major urban street, anywhere, which has every building's back turned to the street as if it doesn't exist. Until the issue of "Henley Street barrier" is addressed in a major way, and in conjunction with WFP itself, the area cannot become truly usable.
4) Overall, a fresh look at how WFP figures into the Downtown space would be really valuable.
5) When people start throwing out terms like "cultural center," they've clearly got something in mind that isn't being stated. I'm all ears.
Response to Questions re; World's Fair Park
(in reply to ArtWagner)
Mr. Wagner,
I am glad to respond. I would also like to add that the first meeting has not even been scheduled and no understandings of any kind have been reached. This is no more than a concept that deserves further inquiry.
1) Everyone seems to like the idea of the amphitheater in WFP, but it is grossly underutilized, even in the temperate months. Is anyone pushing this venue or does it need to be re-thought?
The Amphitheater is an iconic, historical structure. The City spent significant resources on the roof and restored the original seating before taking down the fencing and opening it to public use a few years ago. It is definitely staying in place. it is worth noting that the amphitheater has serious limits as a performance venue.
2) Is the old convention and exhibition space (under and behind the Holiday Inn) currently in use? If so, by whom?
It is barely used and has been mentioned as a possible site for a Science Museum / Children’s’ Museum. However the people interested in that concept have not completed due diligence or finalized a plan
3) To look at it, Henley Street looks like any other urban divided street. Yet, it has become an impermeable barrier between Downtown and WFP and UT. I'm not sure I've ever seen another major urban street, anywhere, which has every building's back turned to the street as if it doesn't exist. Until the issue of "Henley Street barrier" is addressed in a major way, and in conjunction with WFP itself, the area cannot become truly usable.
The area is very usable and is widely used. Henley is a major arterial but not a barrier. The area of interest is on the west side generally around the South Lawn area to Cumberland.
4) Overall, a fresh look at how WFP figures into the Downtown space would be really valuable.
Agreed, Hence the process we are beginning.
5) When people start throwing out terms like "cultural center," they've clearly got something in mind that isn't being stated. I'm all ears.
Just to be clear the City’s Press Release read as follows “Knoxville Mayor Madeline Rogero announced today that the City of Knoxville in cooperation with The University of Tennessee will explore possibilities to enhance World’s Fair Park as a center for cultural resources.”
The KNS article, which was very well done, by the way, had the following headline -“City, UT exploring cultural center at World's Fair Park´
It is always interesting to see that nuance matters when it comes to language. The same words reordered a bit often convey a totally different message.
Thanks, Bill Lyons
The area of interest is on
(in reply to Bill Lyons)
Hmm. Sounds like the location where an amphitheater was shown in the original concept drawings of the park. While the South Lawn hosts a fair number of events, it's common knowledge that it has severe drainage problems. It would be great of that could be addressed in conjunction with any new construction in that area.
~m.
Henley Street as a pedestrian barrier
(in reply to Bill Lyons)
Dr. Lyons,
I have to take exception to your answer to #3 (Henley Street as a barrier). Granted, Henley Street is a major artery and there is nothing in the realm of possibility that can change that. However, the fact remains that Henley Street is a barrier because it feels like a barrier, both physically and psychologically. Or at least, it feels like a physical boundary. I use the walk-across on a very regular basis, but I never fool myself into believing that I am doing anything but crossing high above a six-lane divided highway in a constricted walkway. Since the artery will remain an artery, the solution is to alter the way pedestrians traverse it, so that the idea of a physical or psychological barrier is diminished. Yes, that is a project--adding walk-across bridges that make the crossing more transparent--but it is foolish to talk about a better flow between Downtown and WFP without it. As example, ask yourself this: would NYC's Central Park be as easily accessed and well-used if New Yorkers had to cross a six-lane highway with speeding traffic or use a narrow bridge?
With Regard to #3
(in reply to ArtWagner)
I don't think that Henley is an "impermeable barrier between Downtown and WFP and UT." Yes, it could certainly be better. But when events occur at WFP or the convention center, attendees seem to make it back and forth to downtown just fine.
~m.
Here's the city's Monday
Here's the city's Monday press release about this:
I emailed to ask "what is a center for cultural resources?" The mayor's office replied:
As long as it's free, events
As long as it's free, events should do well. Free as in free events and free parking. Folks are flocking more and more to free events, have been for the last few years, but if you want any people other than the UT associated population to attend, think free.
World's Fair Park Working Group Meeting
City of Knoxville and World's Fair Park leaders will meet Tuesday evening to discuss the future of Knoxville's most iconic park.
The meeting is scheduled for today at 5:30PM. It will be held at Windows on the Park at the Holiday Inn World's Fair Park
A little meeting follow-up
(in reply to bizgrrl)
According to the article, input from the general public is not being considered at this time. I'll say it again, Knoxville needs to retain the remaining green space close to downtown. The approx. 2.8 acre (125,000 square foot) performance lawn, along with the approx. 1.2 acre green space next to the old convention center, is all the green space left in downtown, except for the approx. 1 acre Krutch Park. Many things can be done to attract more people to the existing park. Just take a look at the Bicentennial Park and green space surrounding the state capital building in Nashville. Take a look at Piedmont Park in downtown Atlanta.
Sound's like UT already has its hooks in the city for a theatre
and that is what is the most galling aspect of these puny press releases, if the city is already hooked to build or bond issue for a new theatre for the UT Theatre Department, then go ahead and announce that, there is no need to futz around under the disguise of public input (we can count the number of UT people, UT Benefactors on the list)and then end up where you started in the beginning.
The Tennessee Theatre is much more condusive to live performances than the Clarence Brown Theatre is and the theatre, as constructed, was not capable for expansion or wholesale modernization as technology and production systems changed. The CBT is a phenominal teaching theatre, however, for productions or any traveling broadway performances, it lags behind other available venues in Knoxville.
Look at the pending trainwreck in Nashville with the relatively young Symphony Centre.
The pooch of Fair Site Redevelopment has been screwed twice, Victory Ashe mucked it up when he had a chance to build a minor league baseball stadium downtown (much akin to what Memphis and Chattanooga did, Nashville did it twice with a football stadium and an arena (may do it again with a baseball stadium) and Doug Dickey screwed the big orange pooch when he had a chance to build Thompson Boling on the world's fair site, but he wanted it on campus, where there was literally no parking and the big box sat adjacent to the railroad, Neyland Drive, and the freeking river. Glad that doofus is hopefully gone for good.
Glad the city of Knoxville has all of this theatrical interest, money, and artistic creativity to throw around, they don't do much else anymore, some police, fire, steets, and parks, and that's about it.
This is absolutely not the case.
(in reply to Elwood Aspermonte)
This is absolutely not the case. The very first substantive discussions regarding any of this took place yesterday, and they took place in public.
Hmm
(in reply to Bill Lyons)
So did UT not start this conversation talking about a new theater space for Clarence Brown? So their interest in the discussion is entirely neutral and they will abide as it develops? Or do they have a preferred goal in mind?
Or is that a question to ask UT's Senior Directors of We're Happy to Talk about the Idea of the Things That We Are Talking about?
The Tennessee is conducive to
(in reply to Elwood Aspermonte)
The Tennessee is conducive to modern theater performances because the stage and backstage areas were completely rebuilt during the theater's renovation. It required building out over State Street, a better idea than tearing the theater down.
The same could be true for Clarence Brown: it could be completely renovated for half the cost of new construction, and there is plenty of room behind it for a stage extension. It's possible (and this is just conjecture) that UT wants that huge parcel of land for some other purpose.
The convention center would have been a great site for a new theater complex, bringing an audience to Henley Street nearly every night of the week.
UT could be asked to make a
UT could be asked to make a gesture of good faith before it is allowed to get involved in any sort of development on WFP.It could promise to leave the houses over on White alone.
If it did that, perhaps negotiations could begin in earnest, if they haven't already.
This is another condition I just thought of, and it's fabulous: UT should provide a rendering of every house it has torn down for its expansion in Ft. Sanders (and this includes the South side of Cumberland Ave, before it was Ft Sanders, per se), which means those on Circle Park and the surroundings, for an educational exposition on urban expansion.
The City ought to provide similar depictions of the neighborhoods demolished to give us the Coliseum, the Civic Auditorium and Historic Preservation Driveway to Hell.
Hey, for a museum experience, did anyone save at least one of the bricks from each of those homes and businesses? Because, if they did, that would be a fabulous tactile exercise to put on WFP: "Hey, kids, Here's everything we gutted to get where we are now."
The City ought to provide
(in reply to SnM)
The City ought to provide similar depictions of the neighborhoods demolished to give us the Coliseum, the Civic Auditorium and Historic Preservation Driveway to Hell.
You forgot the JWP gash through SoKno.
Also forgot and may not
(in reply to bizgrrl)
Also forgot and may not remember the historic commercial buildings along Wall Ave. and the original Lawson McGee Library that were torn down to construct Summit Hill Blvd and TVA Towers. Once walked through the lobby without knowing the history of the Saint James Hotel.
The turn-of-the-twentieth-century building at the corner of Clinch and Market was one of my favorites
I attended school a few
(in reply to Stan G)
I attended school a few years near what is now the TVA towers, St. Marys, and spent much time at a little library next to it.
They lost me when only 3 of the 16 are from the private sector
on the working groups, largest group was the University related people and their benefactors,more government, non profit, university, city of Knoxville, Knox County Schools, probably a pretty logical explanation why there is nothing of any substance other that the Knoxville Museum of Art on the World's Fair Site 31 years after it closed.
Since the World's Fair Site was closed in 1982, Chattanooga has built not one but two aquariums downtown, a children's science center, a downtown minor league baseball stadium, fully restored their Tivoli Theatre (yes they have a Wurlitzer organ too),and restored a number of downtown venues, expanded their downtown museums,electrified their downtown bus service, built a usable, affordable, and fully utilized convention center, attached to an existing hotel, and somehow allowed EPB to stretch a public access high speed fiber optic network completely across Chattanooga and Hamilton County.
Much of that was accomplished by involving the private sector business people in Chattanooga, not the government heads or the public sector education heads and the not for profit survivalists.
Same thing happens in Memphis and Nashville, but in Knoxville, if you're not on the public, government, or the non profit payroll, you just don't fit in anymore.
Knoxville doesn't have the
(in reply to Roscoe Persimmon)
Knoxville doesn't have the benefactors willing to spend the money as do the other cities, unless it is a building at UT with their name attached.
Knoxville doesn't have a community willing to invest in itself
(in reply to bizgrrl)
and the tone for that climate was established during the Ashe administration. That should be a very concerning and alarming framework for the city to operate in. Ashe made everybody unwelcome in the city unless they had the right pedigree, supported Victor, and belonged here because they were from the city. The City of Knoxville has not and will not recover from that misguided approach to government leadership.
Now nothing happens in the City of Knoxville, particulalry downtown, unless the city or a city related entity is involved with cash, tax abatements, tax increment financing, or other incentives to build. Best examples are the downtown movie theatre, Urban Outfitters, Mast General, the News Sentinel, which all had public support in some form or fashion. The University Commons held the city hostage for a few hundred thousand under the auspices of turn lanes, access, curbs, etc. and in my opinion, it was nothing more than a shakedown, claiming supporting the future tax revenue or quid pro quo for something else.
There are plenty of big businesses here, Clayton, bank, homes, mortgage operations, DeRoyal, H.T. Hackney, Pilot, Ruby Tuesday, Phillips & Jordan, Regal Cinemas, and a slew of other wildly successful companies, etc. they just won't invest their businesses in Knoxville, particularly downtown Knoxville.
Recession hit the boat businesses hard, Anderson News was hard hit, PlastiLne folded and much of that private sector employment has not been replaced.
Hey, leave Ruby Tuesday
(in reply to Elwood Aspermonte)
Hey, leave Ruby Tuesday alone. We in Blount County are happy to have them.
Yes, an uncomfortable and inconvenient truth…
(in reply to Elwood Aspermonte)
I have to agree, although it pains me to do so. When you look at the example of other metropolitan areas, and Knoxville's own building boom-years of 1890-1929 and the likes of people like C.B. Atkin, it was private citizens with deep pockets, a sense of civic responsibility, and some aesthetics, that made things happen.
Where are Knoxville's risk takers? David Dewhurst et. al. can't do everything, nor should they. After 10+ years of absolutely miraculous downtown growth, I am stunned that there aren't more locals that see an investment bargain, and an opportunity, when it is paraded before them.
To quote the Mayor Shinn in 'The Music Man', "Where's the band? Where's THE BAND?"
The UT Football suck
(in reply to bizgrrl)
Knoxville doesn't have the benefactors willing to spend the money as do the other cities, unless it is a building at UT with their name attached.
Money for anything in this town is self-limiting because UT Football will always be bigger priority. The more that's proposed elsewhere, regardless of what or whose budget it would come from, the greater the urge there is to better use the same amount to enhance that poor, underfunded sports program. It's just what this town is. The biggest-by-God football town in the world.