Submitted by SnM on Wed, 2009/07/01 - 6:15am
City ordinance would force homeless off Knoxville walkways
http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2009/jul/01/city-ordinance-would-force-home...
Snark:
City Ordinance Would Force Hopeless Politicians Out of Knoxville
Policy primarily aimed at keeping county politicians from asking for handouts
http://blogs.knoxnews.com/knx/mcnutt/2009/07/city-ordinance-would-force-...
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It would prohibit anyone
Besides the Volunteer Ministry Center's new facility that allows daytime access, where will these people go? What side streets, areas will be affected with an influx of homeless? And, as a commenter said on the KNS site, how are homeless people going to pay a $50 fine?
it's astonishing (or maybe
it's astonishing (or maybe not so) that, with the millions spent on paving, lighting, and fencing the underbelly of I-40, there's not a single bench. has anyone seen one?
It is going to get ugly in
It is going to get ugly in the residential neighborhoods in that area. We already have door-knock begging in our neighborhood.
True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler
Seppuku is in a way the ultimate awful libertarian act -- Frank Popper
They used to do this in 19th century Britain...
Charles Dickens wrote a lot about it...
The government would fine people that were homeless and living in doorways and under bridges and such. If they couldn't pay the fines...they went to "the Poorhouse", which was a euphemistic title of a prison for being poor, where they worked on the treadmills to provide power for rich industrialists' mills and factories.
_________________________________________________

"You can't fix stupid..." ~ Ron White"
"I never said I wasn't a brat..." ~ Talidapali
lots of difficulties here
I'm sure the task force and council discussed these issues, but, yes, how is a homeless person to pay the fine? and if it isn't paid, how do you cite a person without an address to court? will police officers really care to spend the time pursuing the ordinance? and will an already overburdened legal system look forward to sorting these cases out?
I suspect the fine is more leverage than actual weapon, as Bill Lyons alludes to, somewhat. and also perhaps a means of tracking the most contrary recidivists. but perhaps the city's director of politician repurposing will appear to make it clear?
Sidewalk Ordinance
SnM, thanks (along with others) for raising a couple of very good points. A fine ($50 limit) is all that a city ordinance can require, and, other than incarceration (not possible for violation of a city ordinance anyway and clearly not appropriate)there is not another possibility. We have already started to see if alternatives can be presented, such as helping do some work to clean up the area, but that is within the domain of city court and that may or may not be feasible.
But to be clear, the intent of the city is not to "punish" folks but to do something about the congestion on city sidewalks that is detrimental to pedestrian traffic from homes to businesses and through the downtown north and downtown areas. There will be extensive warning periods and people will hopefully get the word that a place to rest during the day is available nearby and a day facility is available to help them. I hope folks avail themselves of the discussion on the Fifth and Broadway section of our web page http://www.cityofknoxville.org/policy/5thbroadway/default.asp and read the notes relative to this and like matters. The discussion took place in 2006 and we have been endeavoring to make sure that we did not waste the time of the good people from the nearby neighborhoods.. Mechanicsville, Old North, Fourth and Gill, and Parkridge.. who participated along with business owners and those charged with helping the less fortunate in the area (KARM, VMC, and Salvation Army). There was total (or very close, I forget) agreement that the sitting and blocking of sidewalks was a great concern and great desire that the City "do something."
We have worked to bring about a number of changes, but in a systematic and coordinated manner that recognized the needs many folks had for compassion and help, the impact on businesses and residents, and on the overall health (economic and otherwise) of the area. This is the last piece of the puzzle, and could not come into play unless and until providers realigned their services (notably VMC - housing; KARM - emergency services) so that a day facility and a comfortable place for people to rest in a dignified setting was in place. This meant parking for KARM employees and volunteers under the Interstate so they could use the space previously used for parking to help provide the area for people to sit during the day. Jon Lawler and the Ten Year Plan folks have done great work in getting this realignment. Previously there was overlap in service and no day room at the KARM facility.
Back to the original question, unfortunately one does need to have the ordinance have some power; hence the fine. Such is also the case with the panhandling ordinance, which has been quite helpful.
This all represents a coordinated approach, one that has necessitated patience, in an atmosphere where the city has precious few tools to work with. We have done a lot of work in Downtown North to encourage pedestrian friendly, mixed use, economically viable neighborhoods, recognizing that there are service providers doing important humane work with the less fortunate. We have started work on making Central a "complete street, used the facade program to effect great improvement, encouraged businesses and residential development (912 N. Central and the new project on Fifth near Central), encouraged and supported the work of St. John's Lutheran church to redo an entire city block, done street improvement on fifth near broadway, and very soon, with the revitalization of Minvilla. We used a creative TIF approach to move Brownlow from a blight to an asset.
This ordinance keeps faith with the businesses and neighborhoods where folks have invested with the dollars and their energy and ideas. Many of these folks have made it clear over the years that they felt abandoned by a City Government with its eyes looking elsewhere. The goal is open sidewalks to encourage walking between downtown and downtown north and within both areas. Some people who it might impact need assistance now have opportunities for help that they did not previously have. They also have an safer and better alternative to stay during the day.
Wasn't there already an
Wasn't there already an ordinance against blocking the sidewalk? If so, why do we need this new piece of legislation?
Thank you for your response,
Thank you for your response, Bill. But as Rachel notes below, how does the law differ in intent and execution from the anti-loitering and anti-sidewalk-blocking laws already in place?
Why not use existing law?
We were advised that current laws were vague and somewhat outdated, as is, in some ways, the whole concept of "loitering." The new law gives a clear public purpose, specified areas and times specific to that purpose, etc. Section 19-63 of the city code is in fact, now titled "sidewalk access" rather than "loitering" to properly reflect that focus.
The agenda information sheet and ordinance can be viewed here. http://www.cityofknoxville.org/citycouncil/agenda/12a.pdf
I see. Thanks - I should
I see. Thanks - I should have read that in the first place.
i just drove by and saw
i just drove by and saw people on the street without legs. and that unbelievable fence around the underbelly ... what is the city thinking??
yeah, where's bill lyons when we need him :?
street without legs?
which street was this?
tough call
What side streets, areas will be affected with an influx of homeless?
Sounds like another lesson in unintended consequences.
Will this create hobo camps off the main streets? Squatters in abandoned buildings?
We hear so much about sustainability in the Global Warming drama. Seems like sustainability is the crux of the homeless debate. Housing the homeless is futile if there isn't an upward path to self-sustainability.
Maybe, we're doing it wrong? At some point, the recruiting of the homeless should be debated. We are on the map as a very friendly homeless locale. Maybe too friendly?
Where to start?
Coming from you, that's a thigh slapper of epic proportions.
Hobo Camps: already occurs. I am not against squatting as it is shelter.
Most homeless people have jobs. Nice try to run this off on one of your hobby horses, skippy.
Nothing says "clean" streets like "cleansing."
Come back when you have some meaningful input.
True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler
Seppuku is in a way the ultimate awful libertarian act -- Frank Popper
Source?
Most homeless people have jobs.
What are these jobs? Panhandling? I don't think that is technically a job.
Got a source Professor?
Page 26. Keep trying. True
Page 26.
Keep trying.
True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler
Seppuku is in a way the ultimate awful libertarian act -- Frank Popper
Ummm...no
Okay Professor Webster, when did "many" become "most"?
EMPLOYMENT
Lack of employment is often identified as a major cause of homelessness,
however, many of the homeless report being employed or having occasional work.
You are the illiterate Joe Biden of blogging.
Also, prostitution or drug dealing is not technically employment.
Here is the correct link:
http://www.ci.knoxville.tn.us/development/homeless20yr.pdf
Distinction without a
Distinction without a difference.
Anyhow, I forget that in the Dumbass Fever Dream World, that all homeless people are drug dealers, whores, and idlers. You've been posting at Knoxnews.com again, haven't you? I hear they banned you and you signed up under another name in under 10 minutes.
Ever work with the homeless? Nope. I didn't think so.
True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler
Seppuku is in a way the ultimate awful libertarian act -- Frank Popper
Don't ever change
You are too perfect the way you are.
Nope. I am not perfect. I
Nope. I am not perfect. I admit mistakes, unlike you. I will agree that "many" is not "most," but I think it is important to point out that when the person you are talking to thinks all homeless people have sex for money, steal, and do drugs, it is a distinction without a difference, or at least a distinction that need not be made.
Ever do anything but bitch? Ever get anything right? Ever do anything to help anybody?
Let me test you on your knowledge to see if you can get anything right (and I know this is off-topic, but...):
By what percentage did Ragsdale expand the Knox County budget since he took office?
True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler
Seppuku is in a way the ultimate awful libertarian act -- Frank Popper
Ever do anything to help
Ever do anything to help anybody?
The lady from the Christian charity I donated furniture to told me the furniture I donated would help fourteen families. She said it was one of the larger donations they had this year.
It would depend on what the definition of help is.
You could help everyone by dialing down the hate.
Ever do anything to help
How Clintonesque of you.
As for your donation, that's nice. Homeless people don't have places to put furniture, by definition. Your knowledge on the issue is what I want you to know about, not your magnanimity. Another question: What's an pressing issue in the everday lives of every single homeless person other than shelter?
I don't hate you, Mike. I wish you would stop making an ass out of yourself with your enormous gaps in knowledge, etc.
True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler
Seppuku is in a way the ultimate awful libertarian act -- Frank Popper
the difference
I choose to help people where it makes the greatest impact.
I take the upstream, you take the downstream.
It's all good.
I choose to help people
Is this where we appeal to you to throw away your computer and stop using the Internet?
True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler
Seppuku is in a way the ultimate awful libertarian act -- Frank Popper
The streets affected are in
The streets affected are in the CBID and the Downtown North Redevelopment area. The area affected is specified in the ordinance, which is available online as part of City Council's agenda. www.cityofknoxville.org; click on city council and go from there.
Park
Excellent point about the benches, Michael. Are there plans to build a pocket park with trees, etc? Greenery has been shown to have a beneficial effect on mental health.
_______________________________________
There MUST be a pony in here somewhere!
Are there plans to build a
yes, there should have been parks in the TDOT plans, but what i saw was only berm landscaping, planting on those very steep slopes. i'm sure that, once grown in, they will become habitation for human beings.
"warning-out" as regressive strategy against homeless
The mayor and council should be made aware of what they are doing in historical terms.
"For homeless people in this country, public space is the realm in which they are forced to conduct the fragmented tasks of daily survival. Although public space has been romanticized as egalitarian in nature, homeless people have experienced it as a contested terrain filled with hierarchical and exclusive aspects. One of the earliest examples of efforts to segregate public space from the homeless in this country were laws imposed in colonial New England which were based on the Elizabethan Poor Laws. Homeless wanderers in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries were ordered to leave communities in which they did not have legal residence--a process referred to as "warning-out."
Read Don Mitchell's (Rutgers
Read Don Mitchell's (Rutgers Geography grad, ahem) "The Right to the City." Chilling.
True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler
Seppuku is in a way the ultimate awful libertarian act -- Frank Popper
In Orlando they used to just
In Orlando they used to just buy them Greyhound bus tickets.
Don't let the sun set on
Don't let the sun set on your head? Nice.
Still, you'd be surprised by how many homeless people are just trying to get back to a certain place where they have a more solid social network and the routes to get there are often determined by the quality of services in towns and cities that cater to them. One guy I chatted with in the 90s, who was living in the basement of building in Maplehurst, told me that he was simply trying to get back to Michigan and ran out of money in Knoxville, which was fortunate because there were good services for people "on the road." I bought him a one-way ticket to Detroit after he helped me change an alternator on my car. Never saw him again.
True happiness is knowing you are a hypocrite. -- Ivor Cutler
Seppuku is in a way the ultimate awful libertarian act -- Frank Popper
This is absolutely true.
It's amazing and appalling that people across the whole spectrum of this town seem to believe with such perfect certainty that all homelessness is the result of the same causes, that all homeless people are pretty much the same, and that solutions to the problem of homelessness are butt-simple. This group of dislocated people you mention is one of the patches in the quilt, and some cities have dedicated programs just to help them get back to where they once belonged. I know Atlanta does this, and it's a really good idea.
That is pretty f'n awesome. No joke.
Dr. Roger Nooe's study of
Dr. Roger Nooe's study of homelessness in Knoxville, prepared at UT and used by the city, dispels most of the fallacies voiced here and elsewhere. I'm surprised he is not heard from at a time when his expertise would likely be of great use and most welcome.
Nooe's study is available at the city's website as a .pdf file.
Capitalist social engineering
The mode of the capitalists is to generate money by restricting comforts and needs for free. The Market Square redevelopment included methods to make it uncomfortable for people without money. I would prefer to create more public spaces that can accomodate people at all times without scorn. Public restrooms would be nice and soft spaces to lounge with edible landscaping.
Return to Vertical Position
One of my Flickr contacts from the UK recently vacationed in Florida and posted this picture today.
What a nice way to remember us.
Visit us at:
The Home
That sign just doesn't seem thorough enough
If they really wanted to convey the message, they could have said something like
Do not be prone, supine, resupine, face down, procumbent, decumbent, recumbent, reposing, flat, horizontal, level, stretched out, sprawled out, laid out, prostrate, or be inclining, flopping, bunking, crashing, reclining, retiring, dozing, resting, sagging, lazing, slumping, slouching, lounging, lolling, relaxing, sleeping, slumbering, snoozing, drowsing, napping, nodding off, zonking out, conking out, sawing wood or catching zzzs.
Furthermore, do not loiter, dally, dilly-dally, diddle, diddle-daddle, fiddle-faddle, loaf, idle, tarry, delay, diddle, squat, cluster, assemble, goldbrick, lurk, lollygag, pause, linger, haunt, hover, settle, shuffle, abide, goof off, drag, procrastinate, poke about, hang around, hang fire, remain, sojourn, stall, stay, stop over, mill about, park your butt or otherwise stand around.
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