Sep 21 2007
06:59 am

I like Obama a lot. I just can't come around to thinking he's ready for the Presidency. This sealed it for me.

( adds that the resolution, which was backed by many Democrats (but not Sen. Hillary Clinton, with Sen. Barack Obama not voting) "absurdly" claims that MoveOn impugns the honor and integrity of all the members of the United States Armed Force "despite the fact that MoveOn includes hundreds of thousands of veterans and military family members, who've led our campaign to bring our troops home."

There is a certain courage that will be required of the next president, if America's march into fascism is to be halted. I need to see it in my candidate. responds

Carole Borges's picture

I agree

I'm thinking Edwards now...

bizgrrl's picture

Yeah, we were wondering how

Yeah, we were wondering how he voted. Not. He wasn't in my top two or three anyway.

Pam Strickland's picture


I've become more and more convinced that while she has faults, the only one who can do the job is Hillary.

Pam Strickland

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." ~Kurt Vonnegut

Virgil Proudfoot's picture

Doing the job?

I've become more and more convinced that while she has faults, the only one who can do the job is Hillary.

By "doing the job" I assume you mean winning the office and then immediately surrendering to the Republicans, which is what she and her husband did before. Why do so many Democrats want to repeat the Clinton sell-out?

I don't see a progressive, independent thinker in any of the media-approved "front runners," Clinton, Obama, or Edwards. Kucinich is the only one running whose policies I actually support, but of course no one will vote for him because he's got funny ears.

rikki's picture

another one bites the dust

I don't see a progressive, independent thinker in any of the media-approved "front runners,"

I miss Paul Wellstone so much.

JaHu's picture

I have come to the decision

I have come to the decision that I'm throwing in the towel. We have ranted about Bush's administration since he has taken office and nothing has changed, its only gotten worse. I have decided (I'm the decider (sarcasm)), there is no democracy or freedom in this country its only an illusion and all of the politicians (including the Democrats) are all illusionists. The media is their tool of manipulation; its their sheepdog so to speak, and it's keeping us all herded together till they can haul us too market for slaughter.

The group that we now have in Washington are either too chicken s#!t to stand up to this administration or their hands are so deep in the pockets of big business that they could care less about the public. I'm not sure which it is! Anyway, it's been fun, I just feel it has become futile and I've grown tired of fighting or even reading about it. Good luck to you all!


Adrift in the Sea of Humility

WhitesCreek's picture

I'm hanging in...

This is a big train and it'll take a long time to turn it around.

Rest up for now, we'll need everybody later on.

Andy Axel's picture

Power is never given

I just feel it has become futile and I've grown tired of fighting or even reading about it.

Just how they like it. One thing that the statistics show is that turning you off or isolating you from the process is much easier than turning you on or involving you in it.

It's an understandable reflex - and I'm still looking for my Polynesian lava tube in the event of catastrophe.


I'm a guy in a Reagan mask -- and I'm running for President!

Stick Thrower's picture

The Gag Reflex

Focus the anger and frustration at the people who really deserve it: the senators (like Lamar and Corker) who voted FOR the ridiculous condemnation resolution yet AGAINST the Webb amendment on Wednesday. Those are the real chickenshits.

I just saw an ad on CNN this morning from Ari Fleischer's "Freedom's Watch" White House propaganda group.

Here it is.

Only watch it on an empty stomach.

Factchecker's picture

I have come to the decision

I have come to the decision that I'm throwing in the towel.

Throwing it in on what? From KnoxViews? I hope not, but if you've found a better way to spend your time, more power to you, though you'll be missed. Steve, Andy and Stick are right: What is the alternative? Putting your fingers in your ears and entrusting the status quo with your future?

Politically, things ARE getting better even if the Dems keep shooting themselves in the foot at a ridiculous pace. It's better than shooting directly at us, which is sort of what Repugs do. As the saying goes, we didn't get in this mess overnight, and it's going to take awhile to get out.

But hell yes. The next time the Democrats call me for money (in the next few hours, it seems), I'm going to give them both barrels and tell them I already sent their money to MoveOn, which I did. I thought that ad was a little harsh and divisive, but the response to it has me jumping to MO's defense. The only real alternatives to Repugs have Dixie Chicked MoveOn. I plan to write Harry Reid about it too.

Where have they been to condemn the constant hate speech from Coulter, Hannity, Rush, Rove, Savage, O'Reilly,

Terry Troll's picture

Help me out Factchecker

I am a lot like Jahu, I have had it with the Dems, never had it with the R's and am just going to vote Green or something and sit back and watch. After forty years of fighting the good fight I think we are stagnant and have gotten nowhere in the last 15 or twenty. I hope I am wrong but... What do you see that I don't?

Rachel's picture

Voting green

Entirely your perogative. If enough formerly Democratic voters join you, I hope you all enjoy having a far right Supreme Court for the next 40-50 years.

As for the ad, it seems everybody is overreacting to what was an over-the-top, silly ad in a newspaper. It was ridiculous for the Senate to take the time to condemn it. It was more ridiculous for any Democrats to vote for that. But frankly, I also think it's ridiculous to let disgust over that one vote affect what you're going to do in 2008 one way or the other.

Look, I'm upset with some of the stuff the Dems are (not) doing, as I expressed on here last night. But I long ago learned not to let the better be the enemy of the good.

The good in 2008 is not putting another Republican - especially any of the candidates running - into the White House. Period. I'll look for the better, but in this case I certainly will not do anything that prevents the good.

"The difficulty lies not so much in developing new ideas as in escaping from old ones." - John Maynard Keynes

Andy Axel's picture

I'm upset with some of the

I'm upset with some of the stuff the Dems are (not) doing

Matthew Yglesias:

People find it comforting, I guess, to try to convince themselves that MoveOn is the reason our troops will be engaged in at least 18 more months of futile combat in Iraq, but it's just not true -- legislative defeat in September was inevitable, and the war is still very unpopular and still a very promising issue for 2008.

The fight was lost when the Democrats gave Bush the funds to keep perpetrating this war. Petraeus was a show pony, he always was; we knew that back in March. Is there anyone who seriously believed that Patraeus was going to get in front of Congress and give an honest report that the military adventure is a continuing failure, and that the surge was a failure?

Hell, no, he wouldn't. The Democrats enabled the surge, they gave Bush the political cover that he demanded from them, and their faces are just as besmirched by failure.

Although, as far as Yglesias is concerned, you could argue that this goes back right to the resolution giving Bush a blank check to invade Iraq in 2003 - which a lot of Democrats (Yglesias included) thought was a great idea at the time. For fear of looking like wimps or whatever, they capitulated then.

And just as Bush keeps pushing HIS failed strategy in Iraq, the Democrats are backed into the position of pushing THEIR failed political strategy of giving Bush what he wanted to keep from looking like just so many frilly blouses.


I'm a guy in a Reagan mask -- and I'm running for President!

Terry Troll's picture

Rachel, if it was one vote I

Rachel, if it was one vote I certainly would not abandon my party. If you look through today posts you see (1) health care, (2) the add, (3) skipping a tough vote, and more that I can't remember without going to look and losing this post. In days past it was extending the Patriot Act, warrant-less wiretaps, only 24 Dem senators voting to override the spending cut and on and on ad nauseum. My blinding flash of light was that it is no longer acceptable for me (and I said me, not everyone) to to vote for someone who might be ok and was probably better than the other guy, but I really had some problems with but had a good chance of winning. Sorry, can't do it any more.
Prime example: In the Louisiana Governors race currently ongoing, there are about a dozen candidates. One dem was a republican the day before he registered but couldn't get party support, one dem is a serious insider hack from the Old La. machine, one is a nice guy but ineffective. The front runner is a real hard core Republican from the first bush administration. I have elected (pun intended) to vote for Mary Vulintine Smith (no that is not misspelled)Her platform is to get a pardon for former three term Gov. Edwin Edwards, who is currently in the Federal pen at Oakdale for a corruption charge, make him her chief advisor and "straighten this state out". While he was a little bent the state ran very smoothly and prospered for his 12 years in office. I think we could do worse than have a shadow gov. running the state. Mary is a beautician by the way. But what I love and what gives me great satisfaction, is that I am voting for someone I like and I agree with.
As for the Presidential primary I will listen to Virgil and vote for Dennis if he is still in the race when it gets to La.

Voting my heart in the swamp.

Hammersmith's picture

On the contrary...

as there is nothing to him, he will make a fine president.

River Dog's picture

Obama in 09 Count me in

"...Yet even as we speak, there are those who are preparing to divide us, the spin masters and negative ad peddlers who embrace the politics of anything goes. Well, I say to them tonight, there's not a liberal America and a conservative America - there's the United States of America...."

Early in his presidency, Teddy Roosevelt gave a famous speech before farmers and factory workers that laid out his vision of what government at its best should be. He said, "The welfare of each of us is dependent fundamentally upon the welfare of all of us, and therefore in public life, that man is the best representative...whose endeavor it is not to represent any special class or interest, but to represent working for our common country."

It's time to get to work once more for our common country. It's time we had a politics that reflected that commitment. And it's time we had a President who can get it done. I look forward to being that President, and working with all of you to make this America happen.

Thank you.


Barack Obama

WhitesCreek's picture

Great speech..

Now show me some courage and I'm in.

So far I don't see it. Perhaps his handlers need ot turn him loose.

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