Disclosures II | KnoxViews

Fri

Feb 2 2007

04:16:pm

By: R. Neal shortURL

"At least two commissioners who voted for him said they didn’t know about Jordan’s past Wednesday but hope he’s put it behind him.

Here is the court document referenced in the article.

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122

vote

Josh Jordan

Submitted by Joe Taylor on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 4:33pm.

This is totally unacceptable!!!!!!

Way to go

Submitted by Patricia on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 4:53pm.

Everyone of the commissioners voted for the cocaine dealer except Mark Harmon and R. Larry Smith. It is against the law for a felon to serve in office, so let's see how they are going to get out of this one.
Wasn't Scott Moore working for the sheriffs department at that time? He had to know about this.
My commissioner was called (Leuthold)and asked why he voted for Jordan since he was involved in the florida boys gang, he replied, "he asked Scott Moore if this was the same Jordan that was involved and Scott said no it wasn't"
Great job guys!!!

Actually, he's not a felon.

Submitted by R. Neal on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 4:59pm.

Actually, he's not a felon. He was a juvenile and he wasn't charged. The court documents suggest several of those involved got immunity for their testimony.

The whole thing is sad. Sad that he got mixed up in this and now he has to go through it all over again even though he says he has straightend out his life. Sad that commissioners apparently didn't do any kind of vetting of nominees. And too bad there wasn't a special election or public meetings where some of these things might have come up beforehand. No telling what's next.

Focus on adult qualifications

Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 5:03pm.

Personally, I fall in Commissioner Norman's camp. Josh Jordan was only 16 years old at the time of his transgression and he aided prosecutors in breaking the drug ring.

That doesn't mean I don't hold him accountabile for how he's busied himself in recent years, though. I just don't believe Jordan has adequate qualifications as an adult, in terms of education, career experience, or community involvment/service, to serve as a commissioner.

I agree with Tamara (hi,

Submitted by Rachel on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 5:12pm.

I agree with Tamara (hi, Tamara, long time, no see). I don't think Josh Jordan is qualified for Commission - and I think there were district 1 candidates who would have made far better Commissioners.

But if he did indeed change his life after screwing up as a 16 year old, I won't hold that against him. If he did turn his life around, that's pretty impressive, actually.

Drug Dealers

Submitted by Joe Taylor on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 5:15pm.

How has he turned his life... he has unpaid taxes... no real job or experience to hold a commission seat... If his mom was not Lady Di (what her license plate says) he never would have even sniffed that seat...

Wow

Submitted by Patricia on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 5:22pm.

So he sang like a canary after he got arrested as a juvenile. To his credit he got bad guys off the street? Just wondering if he hadn't gotten caught and arrested, what then? You think out of his good conscience he would have turned them in? Sorry but I have no warm, fuzzy feelings about him, how wonderful it is that he turned his life around. He knew exactly what he was doing when he was doing it. What is sad is he did not get convicted.

I'm not excusing it. The

Submitted by R. Neal on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 5:25pm.

I'm not excusing it. The real problem is that there was apparently no vetting of the nominees.

Whether this would have come out or whether it would have changed the outcome (it probably would if there had been an election), the citizens of Knox County will never know.

No vetting because

Submitted by knoxnative on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 5:29pm.

There was no advance process or vetting because then someone might have caught on and prevented the fast one(s) they pulled on Knox County citizens, and even a few commissioners. The element of surpise, doncha know?

Are there qualifications for

Submitted by rikki on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 5:20pm.

Are there qualifications for county commission other than living in the district you serve?

Qualifications/Unpaid Taxes

Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 5:40pm.

Rikki: "Are there qualifications for county commission other than living in the district you serve?"

Rikki, there's just that, being at least 18 years old, and being a registered voter, as I'm sure you know. I was referring to the qualifications *I* look for in a candidate, really.

Joe: "...he has unpaid taxes..."

Joe, I don't know anything about this, and it *would* count in my assessment of adult qualification. Can you elaborate?

WWCWD?

Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 5:26pm.

What Would Chris Woodhull Do? :)

To Jordan's credit, his

Submitted by rikki on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 5:09pm.

To Jordan's credit, his testimony helped put some seriously dangerous men in jail. It takes courage to testify against violent gang members, more courage than it takes to resist a Scoobie Snack. Maybe he'll help straighten out the commission.

Drug Dealers

Submitted by Joe Taylor on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 5:11pm.

you have got to be kidding... he has no business on commission.... he needs to resign today!!!!!

part of the gang

Submitted by rikki on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 5:56pm.

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with county commission. They just blocked an investigation into a dubious annexation referendum that will cost the county millions in sales tax revenues, and it took a clear violation of ths sunshine law to do it, a law they disregard so habitually they don't even bother to be subtle about it.

They recently stomped all over rural East Knox County by sneaking developers in the back door as quietly as they could. Many commissioners have jobs or businesses that at the very least give the appearance of a conflict of interest. Several developers routinely make land purchases that suggest inside knowledge of future commission decisions.

If there is something about Jordan's past illegal activity that suggests he is unfit for commission, it's the lack of loyalty he showed for the thugs he worked for.

To Jordan's credit, his

Submitted by Scott Emge on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 7:18pm.

Are you serious? To his credit??? He peddled cocaine, got caught and arrested, then cut a deal to snitch to save his butt from going to prison. You think that is courageous? Maybe he should get a medal...he's a real hero.
Seems to me like he didn't do anything more than any thug would have done.

Umm,you ought to read the

Submitted by Bbeanster on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 8:07pm.

Umm,you ought to read the document more closely.
Josh's boss WAS convicted of murder. he firebombed an apartment and roasted four little babies who were inside -- their mammas owed him drug money.

Betty:

Submitted by Les Jones on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 11:13pm.

"Umm,you ought to read the document more closely.
Josh's boss WAS convicted of murder. he firebombed an apartment and roasted four little babies who were inside -- their mammas owed him drug money."

Betty, I hadn't read the document before. I have now. It doesn't substantially change my opinion.

Josh Jordan's boss did those things, not Jordan. Based on that document Jordan ran drugs for the guy for less than six months, then testified against him for the prosecution. That doesn't make him a choir boy, but it doesn't make him guilty of murder.

Do you want to be judged on the acts of your bosses and former bosses?

www.lesjones.com

You are attempting to draw a

Submitted by Bbeanster on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 11:29pm.

You are attempting to draw a distinction between drug running and murder. I am saying that the Florida Boys gang was extraordinarily violent and vicious, and you cannot assume that any of them were simply delivering drugs. There really isn't any way to pretty this up.

Josh Jordan's boss did those

Submitted by Patricia on Sat, 2007/02/03 - 6:51am.

Actually, we don't know what all Josh Jordan did. Since he peddled his cocaine as a minor, those records are sealed. All we know for sure is what is indicated in his testimony when he snitched on Elder. He willingly peddled cocaine here in town. He could have done much more than just selling coke. We do know this, he, his mother Diane, and who knows how many county commissioners, purposely tried to hide his drug dealing past from the public so that the commission could get another "go along to get along" member like his mother.

Josh's Part Time Job

Submitted by Patricia on Sat, 2007/02/03 - 8:59am.

Josh helped put these guys behind bars yes, not because he was working undercover, because he was a dealer. Selling from 5-8pm after school and 8am-5pm on weekends, which he admitted. Was asked if he was forced to sell drugs he said no, it was his choice.
Most kids do homework after school, did Diane not know what her son was doing after school and on weekends?
I was a teenager once and trust me my Mom knew every move I made.
Let's spin this story so he looks like the good guy in this.
That is what is going on now.

Let's spin this story so he

Submitted by R. Neal on Sat, 2007/02/03 - 9:26am.

Let's spin this story so he looks like the good guy in this. That is what is going on now.

I don't think so. There are two issues at hand.

One, can a kid make mistakes, turn his life around, find redemption (as Bill Young notes) and become a productive citizen? Clearly the answer to that is yes. A lot of people get second chances and make good. A lot of kids get mixed up in stupid, wrong things, some a lot worse than others, and make stupid mistakes and stupid decisions yet are able to overcome it. I don't think anyone would argue with that.

The second question is, should a candidate's youthful mistakes be held against them and disqualify them from holding office? Is there a threshold of how bad the mistake has to be? Those are tougher questions. If there was an election and something like this came out about a candidate during the campaign, would the people elect him? If the commissioners had bothered to vet the nominees and do their due diligence and this came out before the vote, would they appoint the nominee? Who knows.

The problem is that because of the way this process was handled the voters of Knox County will never know.

I guess a third thing is that no matter what you think about all that, the guy will now be pilloried in the court of public opinion, and it puts the whole process and the commission and those who voted for him and Knox County in general in a bad light. You have to wonder if he thought about all that when he accepted the nomination.

Does it matter?

Submitted by lotta on Sat, 2007/02/03 - 10:03am.

I'm sure Josh will have his devoted mother there coaching him, telling him not to worry, all will be well. She will explain all this away by telling him the nay sayers are just jealous of his success all the while ignoring the fact that she needed to stay connected to this lifestyle come what may.

In truth, Josh is just another pawn for the real power brokers. I expect it will cause him more anguish than happiness in the end.

how will we notice the difference?

Submitted by rikki on Sat, 2007/02/03 - 10:50am.

it puts the whole process and the commission and those who voted for him and Knox County in general in a bad light

Dang. Just when things were looking so grand.

Did high school diplomas prevent a majority of the commission from falling for Paul Pinkston's blatantly innumerate opposition to South High renovations? Did commissions' dedication to honesty and disclosure prevent an under-the-radar condemnation of rural East Knox Co, complete with insider profiteering? Did the sheriff enter into a heliport contract with a convicted drug dealer a few years ago?

You'll have to forgive me if my palate is not sophisticated enough to distinguish the stink of Josh Jordan amid the general stench. Maybe he can be drummed off the commission before he casts a vote, replaced with a Republican crony, and the barely conscious public given the impression that whatever the fuss was, it's been fixed, back to sleep. Let's all play along!

Vilifying the black guy for something that happened 15 years ago instead of the white guys for something that happened Wednesday would be a great example for the kids in East Knoxville who aren't selling cocaine.

Vilifying the black guy for

Submitted by R. Neal on Sat, 2007/02/03 - 10:55am.

Good point. Some of the other commissioners might have things they'd rather not see on the front page of the paper, too.

EDIT: Rikki, I must add, though, that you aren't addressing the other point about vetting the nominees.

If someone comes out during a campaign and says "I made mistakes as a youth but I've straightened out my life" and the voters say that's good enough and elected him, then so be it.

If he put that in his letter and resume that he submitted to commission and they appoint him anyway, so be it.

None of that occurred. If your justification is that he can set an example, what kind of example does that set?

[edit: repetitive points already made by others removed.]

I'd have to agree somewhat with CBT that stuff like this runs good people off from politics, even if they have squeaky clean records. So who does that leave us with? People that good, qualified candidates can't stand to be in the same room with? Seems like a sort of Catch-22.

Agreed.

Submitted by Leslie on Sat, 2007/02/03 - 1:35pm.

A lot of kids get mixed up in stupid, wrong things, some a lot worse than others, and make stupid mistakes and stupid decisions yet are able to overcome it. I don't think anyone would argue with that.

I agree with this assessment. Fact is, Josh Jordan may have a real interest in politics. He grew up around that, too.

There's genuine debate on

Submitted by StaceyDs Cat on Sat, 2007/02/03 - 1:57pm.

There's genuine debate on Josh Jordan and his past.

But what do folks think about this Richard Cate fellow and a jury finding him guilty of sexual harassment and a $250,000.00 judgment (as RNeal has put elsewhere on this blog)?

Since it happened in 2004, is this something folks should forgive?

I cannot write everything I

Submitted by Bbeanster on Sat, 2007/02/03 - 2:17pm.

I cannot write everything I hear about these new commissioners.
But I can say this: much of what I was hearing on the rumor mill last week is front page news today, and there is probably more to come.

You are risking serious embarrassment if you put yourself out too much to defend them.

You are risking serious

Submitted by Leslie on Sat, 2007/02/03 - 4:09pm.

You are risking serious embarrassment if you put yourself out too much to defend them.

Point taken.

And no, I don't think sexual harrassment issues are forgivable, and when cast in the light of being, now, an elected official....:::shudder::::

No spin

Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Sat, 2007/02/03 - 11:03am.

Patricia: "Let's spin this story so he looks like the good guy in this. That is what is going on now."

I'll jump in here one last time to clarify my comments, which I guess started this thread.

What I meant, and nothing more, is that it is not necessary or appropriate to dredge up Josh Jordan's behavior as a minor to make a case for his lack of qualification to serve as commissioner, especially WHEN SO MUCH EXISTS TO MAKE THAT CASE WITH REGARD TO HIS QUALIFICATION AS AN ADULT.

I offered my comments only in regard to the *propriety* of delving into his youth. I absolutely did not intend those comments to be interpreted as a defense of Jordan's qualification. In my opinion, he is NOT qualified to serve.

Think about it...

Submitted by Tess on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 8:10pm.

County commission is not some honorary body. These people will set our property tax rates, make decisions about zoning, about using our taxes to fund vital services for the county, and so on.

Just look at who we now have making those decisions.

It makes me sick.

They have proven that they are petty and motivated by self-interests. And, they appear willing to break laws (sunshine, etc.) to benefit those self interests.

I pay way too much in county property taxes now. Seems like these folks are behaving like Paris Hilton and her ilk out on the town.

This is not funny. We are paying for this with our hard-earned dollars.

No, not funny

Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 8:36pm.

Tess: "This is not funny. We are paying for this with our hard-earned dollars."

Hi, Tess. I just jumped back over here to read new comments and saw yours. In skimming over everyone's posts, seems like only my WWCWD remark could be perceived as an attempted funny...

If I'm the one who seemed to display misplaced funniness, I didn't mean to. I'm a huge admirer of Chris Woodhull and I think his message to mixed-up teens, half personal responsibility and half grace, is just the one they need to correct their behavior *and* squelch their sense of hopelessness. Personally, I think we oughta cut most any kid that much slack.

I'll reiterate, though: No way do I imagine the adult Josh Jordan is qualified for commission, not by virtue of his education, his career experience, or his community involvment/service.

We're on the same side of the fence, but maybe we weigh some of the specifics a little differently...

Not directed at you, Tamara

Submitted by Tess on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 8:46pm.

I am all for giving errant kids a second chance, but not at this level. This errant kid, who has no real job experience, education, or any other attributes for the job, has no business with the job. Except for back-door chicanery, he would not have the job.

I am upset, because this is the kind of baloney that made by grandfather and his brothers decide to move to Roane County from Cocke County back at the turn of the last century. Problem is, there aren't too many places to move to anymore, to get away from corruption.

I pay a huge Knox County property tax bill every fall, just like a lot of other people. To hear that this money, for which I get very little back in personal benefit, is going to pay for cronisim at all levels of county government, makes me sick.

Let these petty (and not so petty) criminals work an honest job for a living.

I would like to know how the citizens can clean this bunch of vermin out and get an honest local government installed.

I wouldn't want to hold someone back

Submitted by lotta on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 8:52pm.

because of a mistake they made at 16 but what about all the kids who did the right thing? How does someone like Jordan inspire the kid that never sold cocaine and never took money from a murderer and never got caught?

Oh wait....we don't care about THOSE kids....they don't need extra help.

False assurances?

Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 9:40pm.

Lotta: "How does someone like Jordan inspire the kid that never sold cocaine and never took money from a murderer and never got caught? Oh wait....we don't care about THOSE kids....they don't need extra help."

I know, I know (sigh). I'm raising one of THOSE kids--a fifteen year old daughter earning college credit in the Honors/Advanced Placement program. She stays up until 1 am studying, then sets her own alarm for 6 to get up and review. I assure her every night that her diligence will pay off. Will it?

Even as I extend the Josh Jordans my measure of forgiveness, they've caused my closer scrutiny of them, too. Without any conscious effort, I'm sure I'll hold this Josh Jordan to a much higher standard of public responsibility.

depends

Submitted by rikki on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 9:56pm.

How does someone like Jordan inspire the kid that never sold cocaine and never took money from a murderer and never got caught?

If he does a good job, he could be very inspiring indeed.

Seems like making it on his

Submitted by Bbeanster on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 10:10pm.

Seems like making it on his own -- doing something like maybe getting his high school diploma -- might be even more inspiring to young folks whose stepmammas can't hand them a public office.

Diane's insistence on starting a political dynasty put every single colleague who voted for this young man in political jeopardy.

daily double

Submitted by rikki on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 10:36pm.

Diane's insistence on starting a political dynasty put every single colleague who voted for this young man in political jeopardy.

Did Diane lie about it like some are saying Scoobie did? Does the outcome of this "jeopardy" depend on what Josh Jordan does in office or just on how much fur flies?

He is one vote out of 19. He can't do a thing without at least 9 co-conspirators. What's the danger? The very people you say she put at risk are the ones whose cooperation Josh would need to do harm.

This doesn't particularly worry me

Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 10:40pm.

Betty: "Diane's insistence on starting a political dynasty put every single colleague who voted for this young man in political jeopardy."

This doesn't particulary worry me.

Back up a minute...

Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 11:00pm.

Betty, Rikki understood your comment about putting his supporters in "political jeopardy" meant you thought Josh could enact some dubious proposals on commission. I understood you meant his supporters would soon need to explain their votes to appoint him. Restate?

And about getting his high school diploma: For real? Because I thought that any candidate for elected office had to file a diploma with Election Commission.

I recall Diane Jablonski telling me years ago how hard it was to track her's down from her alma mater in NY. We talked then about how the charter doesn't specify any such requirement, but the practice of the Election Commission is to require it.

I also picked up the completed qualifying petition of a candidate I thought was suspecious, this about two years ago, and his diploma was attached to his filed petition...

Diane was specifically asked

Submitted by Bbeanster on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 11:24pm.

Diane was specifically asked if Josh had a criminal history and she said no.

My understanding is that he does not have a high school diploma.

the practice of the Election Commission is to require it.

Submitted by Greg Mackay on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 11:31pm.

School Board candidates are required to submit proof of graduation from high school when they file.

Any other offices required

Submitted by Bbeanster on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 11:46pm.

Any other offices required to submit proof of graduation?

The Past

Submitted by watcher on Sat, 2007/02/03 - 12:45am.

Bottom line is, sincerely glad for him, his family and his community that he turned his life around; however, that does not qualify him to serve.

What I'm really disgustetd (although not surprised) by is the lack of disclosure by either Diane or Josh. I would have had a heck of a lot more respect for them had they disclosed up front rather than making the "yea" voting commissioners look like fools. (Wait...guess they didn't need the Jordans' help for that last part!)

ALRIGHTY THEN!

Submitted by Scott Emge on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 7:08pm.

Alrighty then! County Commissioners ignored Knox County Voters and felt that candidates like myself, Tom Salter, Elaine Davis, and Amy Broyles were not good good enough to fill the appointment positions, but an admitted cocaine dealer/gang member like Josh Jordan was just right. This just gets better and better.

Not to sound like a bleeding

Submitted by Les Jones on Fri, 2007/02/02 - 7:15pm.

Not to sound like a bleeding heart, but I can forgive what he did as a kid if he's kept his nose clean since. People can change, and selling drugs isn't murder.

But yeah the lack of disclosure and the dirty backroom deals all this week have been politics at its worst.

www.lesjones.com

BBeanster asked

Submitted by Knox Insider 007 on Sat, 2007/02/03 - 7:02am.

Any other offices required to submit proof of graduation?

This is not intended as a

Submitted by CBT on Sat, 2007/02/03 - 10:52am.

This is not intended as a defense of any particular individual, fact or accusation. As one who has spent years trying to get more people involved in politics, this feeding frenzy over past sins and alleged sins just confirms what people think of politics. It will also keep good people from getting involved. They won't want to subject themselves or their family to the public scrutiny.

People will always some delight in gossip and the troubles of others. Just take a look at the magazine rack in your local grocery aisle.

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