Mon
Jul 23 2007
10:02 am

When I was following some links the other day, I came across the name of Marvin Bush (GWB's brother), and I found it kind of amazing that I was unaware of him and what he has done and does for a living. I came across these two sites where someone mentioned his name. One is pretty much comsidered a whacky 9-11 comsdpiracy hub.

(link...)

The other less so.
(link...)

Have I been sleeping? Why isn't Marvin spoken about more in public?

Irregardless of the 9-11 factor. These articles made me more aware again of the strong ties between higher ups elsewhere and those in power here.

Topics:
R. Neal's picture

How is the second site any

How is the second site any less wacky?

Average Guy's picture

Magic Marvin

Mr. Neal,

"Wacky?" You seem quick to shut down any "conspiracy" debate with childish terms. I put conspiracy in quotes because I know what the term means. Dictionary.com defines it this way;
2. an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot

So whether you believe the plan was hatched in a cave or elsewhere, it was a conspiracy. So let’s debate it.

Do you believe that Marvin's business partners and work before 911 was part of a plan, a coincidence or just wacky?

Do you believe this link; (link...) to the wacky site is using trickery to make the two images look alike, or just another wacky coincidence? Jose Padilla was charged with planning to make a dirty bomb. He no longer is. Do you know why he has been held for over 3 years with no trial or access to a lawyer? Wacky ehh?

mjw's picture

Padilla trial

Well, not to excuse anything. There is no excuse for what was done to Jose Padilla, but his trial is currently ongoing. The prosecution just rested last week and the defense starts today, I think.

Average Guy's picture

Trial

MJW,

Do you know what he is being charged with?

mjw's picture

Padilla charges

According to USA Today:

The indictment charges that Padilla filled out a "mujahedeen data form" to attend an al-Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan after he was recruited by Hassoun at mosque in suburban Sunrise. [He faces] life in prison if convicted on all charges, including providing material support to terrorists and conspiring to kill, maim and kidnap people overseas.

Average Guy's picture

Trusting lil' George

This guy has been in a prison for 3.5 years and may be killed for signing a form? I'm all for "getting" the terrorist, but it needs to been done in our courts - with FULL DISCLOSURE - because this administration or congress can't be trusted. And I don't want to hear anymore "they'll follow us home." If they do, great, we'll see if the second amendment was a good idea after all. We can't fight a military war against a tactic. Terror is a tactic, suicidal Muslims are our enemy. I'm pretty sure suicide is not a great way of getting the most out of your soldiers. May scare the heck out of your opponent (the point of terror), but a poor idea tactically.

From Forbes; Padilla, a U.S. citizen, was held for 3 1/2 years as an enemy combatant after his 2002 arrest on what U.S. authorities originally claimed as a mission to blow up a radioactive "dirty bomb" in a major city. He was added to the Miami case in late 2005 amid a legal battle over President Bush's authority to hold him indefinitely without charge, and the "dirty bomb" allegations were dropped. (link...)

Irregardless, the question remains; Do you believe that Marvin Bush's business partners and work before 911 was part of a plan, a coincidence or just wacky?

Average Guy's picture

Patsy

From CBS;

Jose Padilla, once accused of plotting with al Qaeda to blow up a radioactive "dirty bomb," was sentenced Tuesday to 17 years and four months on terrorism conspiracy charges that don't mention those initial allegations.

(link...)

Be sure to click the "Timeline" feature.

captainkona's picture

R. Neil

The second link is a story by by Wayne Madsen. He's one of the most credible bloggers on the net.

The facts surrounding Marvin Bush are genuine. Dismissing the underlying possibilities is exactly what the Regime wants you to do.


"The mind is like a parachute, it only works when it's open."

Carole Borges's picture

Hmm.. sorry to have ruffled your feathers...but

The first site looked very commercial and the author's background wasn't even presented. The bio of the author on the second site seemed to have more willingness to disclose more about himself.

When I spoke with a couple of friends about the first site, they gave mixed reviews about its accuracy and intentions. The guy was described as "a bit of a self-promoter with some funny ideas". You're right, perhaps my statement about them being wacky was overblown because of the small sampling. It was just my impression.

I am not sold on the theory that Bush conspired to bring down the twin towers. Some of the claims seem to have been debunked, others do show cause for concern, so I am still keeping on open mind on this.

Marvin Bush's history and connections were new to me. I did find them cause for thought.

I also think there are a lot of people that have refused to accept any explanation of any of the things they believe prove Bush was the mastermind behind 9-11.

Average Guy's picture

Oh, but there's more than Marv

No one believed GW was the mastermind of 9/11 when it happened. Remember approval ratings in the ninety percentile range. Once people started finally getting their bearings, the administration had already started to propagandize about “conspiracy theorist”. In fact they seemed to acknowledge a problem as far back as one year and one day after the 9/11 attacks when Bush addressed the UN General Assembly to make the case for war against Iraq. (link...)

So brother Marvin (and don’t forget his Kuwaiti partners) has the airplanes he was responsible for, leave from the airports he was responsible for, fly into the buildings he was responsible for – and this gives you cause for thought. I’d hate to see what gives cause for concern. (link...)

If you would like some more to think about, follow the life and times of John P. O’Neill (link...) and maybe the thoughts of Frank A. DeMartini
(link...)

There’s plenty more but are you concerned yet? Don’t be afraid of the questions. The answers suck – but don’t be afraid.

R. Neal's picture

sorry to have ruffled your

sorry to have ruffled your feathers...but

Carole, no feathers ruffled. The guy has good credentials and all and he has done some great investigative reporting, but his story just doesn't connect the dots. It's a huge leap from MB's housekeeper getting killed in a tragic accident to GWB masterminding 9/11.

I DO tend to be a conspiracy theorist. Was TWA 800 shot down? Probably. Did Dick Cheney order UA 93 shot down by a fighter jet? Likely. Did the government recover a crashed extraterrestrial craft and do they have it and the occupants' remains at Area 51? Probably not, but there is definitely some weird stuff going on out there.

Do I believe PNAC and the Carlyle Group et. al. are a corrupt bunch of greedy psychotic bastards who have engineered a catastrophic foreign policy that has destabilized the world for generations to come? Absolutely. Do I think GWB et. al. engineered 9/11? No. He isn't smart enough, and the rest of them aren't even that crazy. Do I believe GWB's incompetence was a factor the terrorists were able to exploit? Yes.

But that's just my opinion. When hard facts and real evidence get promoted from the late night radio UFO talk shows and the angry guy in a bunker websites to FBI and Congressional investigations, I'll pay more attention.

In the mean time, all this stuff does is give the "other side" more ammunition to attack our ability for rational thought (with no comment on the irony of that).

But again, that's just my opinion. People are free, of course, to believe whatever they want. The sad thing is that the subjects of these theories are all such bad people that smart people can even consider stuff like this within the realm of possibility.

Carole Borges's picture

I agree with you R. Neal

on all counts...

Average Guy's picture

Go with your gut

This what I don't get about you people. You say; "Was TWA 800 shot down? Probably", but in the same breath go on to worry about what the "other side" is going to do. Let me tell what the "other side" is going to do,- something beeping crazy! I know this because you think they have done something crazy, but you'd rather have high poll numbers than do anything about the lunatics taking over the insane asylum.

It's like Pelosi taking impeachment off the table before she gets her office. Democrats lose before they even start.

You say; "It's a huge leap from MB's housekeeper getting killed in a tragic accident to GWB masterminding 9/11." Marvin's housekeeper while tragic, is not the issue here. How about my statement to Carole; So brother Marvin (and don’t forget his Kuwaiti partners) has the airplanes he was responsible for, leave from the airports he was responsible for, and fly into the buildings he was responsible for? Do you have any leaping thoughts on that?

You will be steam rolled by the "other side's" ammunition because you are waiting on it. Why don't you fight the fight you know it right, and let the chips fall they may. If you're candidate somehow manages not to screw it up, but none of this stuff ever gets addressed - are we a better country for having successfully ignored it? History tells you this stuff is not new, just new to the U.S.

If you really want to take a different look, I recommend the following in order;

Start with what building look like when they fall (instead of blowing up); (link...)

For reference: what Kennedy and Eisenhower had to say about the military industrial complex;
Eisenhower; (link...)
Kennedy; (link...)

But the military is just a tool to be used. Who is using it? Take out a dollar and see who issued it. The Federal Reserve Bank is no more a government entity than Federal Express. This means it is in private hands. Do you know who these hands belong to? They went to extremes to organize it. Do you not think they would go to extremes to keep it?

Freedom to Fascism; (link...)
9/11 Mysteries; (link...)
Press for Truth; (link...)
Martial Law; (link...)

All this stuff is long and will take you time to muddle through. Please take a pen and write down questions you come up with for research. The last one is Alex Jones stuff. I know he is a bit over the top, but he does have interesting facts. This stuff is all the GOP's mess - so even if you don't believe it, hopefully you can at least be entertained.

Average Guy's picture

Waiting for better sources

When hard facts and real evidence get promoted from the late night radio UFO talk shows and the angry guy in a bunker websites to FBI and Congressional investigations, I'll pay more attention.

The stovepiped FBI and the 24% congress? Good luck with that. Somewhere else you won't see the facts; (link...)
Remember the hard questions about Time Warner last night? Didn't think so.

Average Guy's picture

Idle hands are.., good for knitting.

When hard facts and real evidence get promoted from the late night radio UFO talk shows and the angry guy in a bunker websites to FBI and Congressional investigations, I'll pay more attention.

Since Peter Jennings died and Tom Brokaw and Dan Rather got anthrax and then got “retired”, the MSM just seems more and more fractured. As far as hearings, unfortunately, Wellstone had a crash, Weldon hired his daughter, McKinney touched a guard, Paul hates black people and Kucinich is no more than a cute gnome. So, still no Congressional investigations.

But here's a thousand or so, Government, Military, Engineering, Architectural, Pilots, Aviation Experts, Professors, Media Professionals, and 9/11 family members who have what they think are hard facts or at least serious questions; (link...)

Also found a still from this video; (link...) In the pic on this page (link...) , it appears to show what looks like a collapsed floor. They must have used a special non-vaporising pancake resistant concrete you can only get in Spain.

Johnny Ringo's picture

Be sure to check out this

Be sure to check out this and this and this too.

Carole Borges's picture

I've visited a couple of those sites before...thanks

I'm still open-minded. The whole thing is vastly complex. I find it hard to believe any person or group of people with an unbiased mind could ever untangle all the threads enough to come up with enough evidence to convict anyone or resolve this question. Like the Kennedy assassination this will be debated for a very long time because there is too much material out there. Also, most of it is filtered through people who strongly don't believe or strongly do believe their own point of view.

Brian A.'s picture

Fault

I would characterize Bush's culpability for 9/11 as incompetent negligence.

Those minutes he spent reading Pet Goat while America was "under attack" spoke volumes on his leadership abilities.

Brian A.
I'd rather be cycling.

Carole Borges's picture

I'm just curious

If you believe everything that was on the sites you listed, then what are you actually doing about it? You said stand up and fight. Where are you fighting? Where are you standing up? If you don't believe that most of the people in Congress, while greedy and at times shady, are at least devoted to maintaining our democracy, then who do YOU look to that has any chance at all of actually changing things? I'm honestly curious...

Average Guy's picture

Greedy and Shady - You said it yourself

First, I don't believe everything about anything. Second, I'm trying to convince people one at a time that something dangerous to our democracy is afoot - at least in this case. How am I doing?

I'm trying to convince Democrats because they now have the power. So if I were Nancy Pelosi, I would start by dragging Marvin's butt before every committee I could set up and ask; How did the airplanes you were responsible for, leave from the airports you were responsible for, and fly into the buildings you were responsible for?

Remember that question? You haven’t expounded on it, but to say it gives you thought. Does it end there for you?

How can you be greedy and shady and still devoted to democracy? Did it hurt your fingers to actually type that? This is your level of acceptance?

then who do YOU look to that has any chance at all of actually changing things?

We the people.

BTW – the first three links are facts or quotes. Nothing to debate. And Freedom to Fascism is produced by Aaron Russo the guy who made Trading Places not JFK.

Carole Borges's picture

Me too...

I'm trying to convince people one at a time that something dangerous to our democracy is afoot - at least in this case.

I'm trying to convince Democrats because they now have the power.

Well, it seems we're both on the same page here at least. I also believe something dangerous is afoot, I'm just not as sure as you are about the extent of that. My own feelings are that facism is gaining a foothold in our government, and the Republicans in power and what they represent are a bigger threat than Al Queda. Nothing is more dangerous than an enemy within. I also believe a propaganda machine is already in place. What I don't believe is that most of the people in Congress are willing to throw our democracy away.

As far as greedy and shady goes, I am a realist. Power often corrupts, that's why checks and balances are so important. I'm not thrilled with our politicians, but I believe they are serving at our convenience. We the people are our best hope. As long as we retain enough rights, I do believe we can see American through this revolting page in our history.

Apparently, you and I, each in our own way, are both working within our small spheres of influence to insure our country lives up to what we think are its ideals.

I admire your desire to stand tall for what you believe. Differences of opinion are important. Only tyrants demand everyone believes the same things they do.

Average Guy's picture

I also believe something


I also believe something dangerous is afoot, I'm just not as sure as you are about the extent of that.

Please do as much research as you can to get sure - and then pass the word.

If the past is too much, observe what has happened since.

The recent plane crash in Brazil left a tail section along with the fuselage. Didn't vaporize like the Pentagon crash.
Brazil crash pics here; (link...)

The Windsor Hotel in Spain burned for 20hrs, didn't fall at "free fall" speed - didn't fall at all.
Windsor in Spain; (link...)

I'm not asking you to go around with your hair on fire. I've been looking into this junk for about 3 years. Took me a year just to get past the feeling it gave me.
Just inform yourself, so when someone calls you wacky, you will at least have the facts.

As for Congress, do you watch C-Span? Are you aware of K Street? There is a small number who are fighting the good fight, but they are vastly outnumbered and never get on the talking head shows.

And please don't let anyone (including R. Neal) convince you GW is the problem. He hasn't had power since Daddy called Dick to help lil George find a VP. Dick stayed. Isn't that convenient.

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